Debate Now Why Are We Still Talking About Abortion?

[JoeMoma]

Murder is killing without cause so going by that definition alone, aborted babies due to rape, incest, or health related issues isn't considered murder.

No it's not.

 

[JoeMoma]

No it's not.

A man killed because the crook wanted his money was still murdered.

 

[martybegan]

Most Americans and courts do not consider abortion murder

Most consider it morally wrong, and want it to be legally wrong after say 16 weeks or so unless the life of the mother is in jeopardy.

 

[Road Runner]

No it's not.

A man killed because the crook wanted his money was still murdered.

What do you mean no it's not? I meant a legit cause.

 

[rightwinger]

Most consider it morally wrong, and want it to be legally wrong after say 16 weeks or so unless the life of the mother is in jeopardy.

Yes, there are different opinions on what abortion laws should be
But few Americans support a total ban in all cases

 

[rightwinger]

My post was based on the premise set forth by the OP who does consider abortion murder.

Very few support that premise

 

[martybegan]

Yes, there are different opinions on what abortion laws should be
But few Americans support a total ban in all cases

And most Americans support bans after 16 weeks or so, with life or death exceptions for the mother.

How many Americans support laws like NY and CA that allow abortions up to birth, or even due to some poor word choices, theoretically right after?

 

[JoeMoma]

What do you mean no it's not? I meant a legit cause.

If that is true... then your op is falsely stating that abortion is murder because in states where it is legal then it's not legally considered murder.... because it is legal.

So are we defining murder as killing an innocent human or are we defining murder as killing someone illegally such as the law defines the killing as murder? In your OP it seemed to be the former.

 

[Road Runner]

If that is true... then your op is falsely stating that abortion is murder because in states where it is legal then it's not legally considered murder.... because it is legal.

So are we defining murder as killing an innocent human or are we defining murder as killing someone illegally such as the law defines the killing as murder? In your OP it seemed to be the former.

It depends on the situation.

 

[JoeMoma]

It depends on the situation.

That leads to being pro-choice. It depends on the situation, thus women can decide for their on individual situations.

 

[Road Runner]

That leads to being pro-choice. It depends on the situation, thus women can decide for their on individual situations.

Okay so maybe I'm pro-choice to an extent but not just because the mother wants to choose to kill her baby for no reason.

 

[JoeMoma]

Okay so maybe I'm pro-choice to an extent but not just because the mother wants to choose to kill her baby for no reason.

She has reasons, just not your reasons.

 

[Libby von H]

There aren't any rules, I'm just putting this here instead of the clean debate zone so we can be as ruthless as we want to be towards this topic. Now the Democrats are just making ignorant excuses as children don't have anything to do with inflation and gas prices. With the exception of rape and harm towards the mother and or unborn child, abortion is murder! Plain and simple.


Even then in the case of rape there's adoption available and any mother that would choose her life over the life of her child doesn't deserve to be called a mother in my book. I missed the part why we're still having this argument.

People like you never get clarity. So if a mother lied that it was rape then you still don't say an innocent life was taken.
And if there is doubt, why is that doubt transferred to the baby ?
READ SOMETHING BY ACTUALLY RAPED WOMEN

Mother Who Chose Life After Being Raped Goes Viral, Says Daughter 'Is the Greatest Joy of My Life'​

Mother Who Chose Life After Being Raped Goes Viral, Says Daughter 'Is the Greatest Joy of My Life'

"Sex doesn’t make babies, God does."

ijr.com

And the book

Victims and Victors: Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions, and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault​

by Sobie Reardon, Makimaa
These are the real "experts" on this complex issue: the women who have been there. Just listen to what they have to say:

"After my daughter was born, it was love at first sight . . . I know I made the right decision in having her." Nancy "Cole"

"Often I cry. Cry because I could not stop the attacks. Cry because my daughter is dead. And I cry because it still hurts." Edith Young

"I think that rape victims with pregnancies are discriminated against because people seem to think you're nuts to have a baby by a man who raped you. We are looked upon as being liars, or stupid." Sharon "Bailey"

"They say abortion is the easy way out, the best thing for everyone, but they are wrong. It has been over 15 years, and I still suffer." "Rebecca Morris"

"I thank God for the strength He gave me to go through the bad times and for all of the joy in the good times. I will never regret that I chose to give life to my daughter." Mary Murray

"Abortion does not help or solve a problemit only compounds and creates another trauma for the already grieving victim by taking away the one thing that can bring joy." Helene Evans

"The effects of the abortion are much more far-reaching than the effects of the rape in my life." "Patricia Ryan"

"I, having lived through rape, and having raised a child conceived in rape,' feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal for rape and incest. I feel that we're being used to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side of the story." Kathleen DeZeeuw

In Victims and Victors, 20 women like the ones quoted above share what it is like to face a pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. They speak bravely and candidly of the pain of sexual assault, of the sadness and trauma of abortion, and of the joy and healing of giving birth.

Bottom LIne: when someone is raped and the pro-aborts advise her and the pro-life tell no different story, you are BETRAYING both mother and baby. Many women who went through with having the child blame people like YOU more than anyone else.

 

[d0gbreath]

Looking back, I'm trying to find a time when we weren't talking about abortion. Anyone have a clue?

 

[Libby von H]

Looking back, I'm trying to find a time when we weren't talking about abortion. Anyone have a clue?

We know the Founders hated it.

Abortion: What The Founding Fathers Thought About It​

byDuane L. Ostler

“If Imay correct the misguided gentleman,” said Benjamin Franklin,“I indicated as early as 1728 through a fictional character I createdthat abortion was intolerable in American society. When SamuelKeimer had the audacity to publish a short article about abortionin his newspaper, I responded with an opposition by my fictionalcharacter ‘Celia Shortface’ who expressed outrage against Keimerthat ‘thou would have printed such things . . . as would make allthe modest and virtuous women in Pennsylvania ashamed!’”
13. A BENJAMIN FRANKLIN READER 46 (Walter Isaacson ed., 2003)
AND
This precise situation was covered in our day by whatwere known as the concealment statutes in many of the colonies,intended to protect the mysterious deaths of bastard childrenfound dead, regardless of whether their death was induced priorto or after their birth. In other words, these laws covered bothabortion and infanticide. Indeed, these laws were patterned aftera 1623 Act of Parliament entitled ‘An Act to Prevent theDestroying and Murdering of Bastard Children.
EVEN MONTESQUIEU
the words of Montesquieu:‘there is among savages another custom . . . it is the cruel practice of abortion.’
Jefferson famously spoke of the uncivilized practices of the American savages who killed babies, and how they stopped such barbarity upon becoming civilized.”

 

[rightwinger]

We know the Founders hated it.

Abortion: What The Founding Fathers Thought About It​

byDuane L. Ostler

“If Imay correct the misguided gentleman,” said Benjamin Franklin,“I indicated as early as 1728 through a fictional character I createdthat abortion was intolerable in American society. When SamuelKeimer had the audacity to publish a short article about abortionin his newspaper, I responded with an opposition by my fictionalcharacter ‘Celia Shortface’ who expressed outrage against Keimerthat ‘thou would have printed such things . . . as would make allthe modest and virtuous women in Pennsylvania ashamed!’”
13. A BENJAMIN FRANKLIN READER 46 (Walter Isaacson ed., 2003)
AND
This precise situation was covered in our day by whatwere known as the concealment statutes in many of the colonies,intended to protect the mysterious deaths of bastard childrenfound dead, regardless of whether their death was induced priorto or after their birth. In other words, these laws covered bothabortion and infanticide. Indeed, these laws were patterned aftera 1623 Act of Parliament entitled ‘An Act to Prevent theDestroying and Murdering of Bastard Children.
EVEN MONTESQUIEU
the words of Montesquieu:‘there is among savages another custom . . . it is the cruel practice of abortion.’
Jefferson famously spoke of the uncivilized practices of the American savages who killed babies, and how they stopped such barbarity upon becoming civilized.”

Raping Slaves= Good
Abortion= Bad

 

[Doc7505]

Because we do not want to force the victim of a rape to bear the child of the rapist

She has enough trauma

~~~~~~

Study Finds Only 0.4% of Abortions Are For Cases of Rape​

Study Finds Only 0.4% of Abortions Are For Cases of Rape

A common argument made by pro-abortion advocates in support of infanticide is that abortion is needed in cases of rape - an “exception” to laws against baby murder that even many pro-lifers believe should be legal.

www.mrctv.org

A common argument made by pro-abortion advocates in support of infanticide is that abortion is needed in cases of rape - an “exception” to laws against baby murder that even many pro-lifers believe should be legal.
Generally, those who have strong feelings about abortion in the case of rape or incest are misinformed, going off of what someone has told them instead of looking at the facts. The left’s constant harping on rape and incest clauses would lead one to believe the situation is common.
That would be a lie.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

There aren't any rules, I'm just putting this here instead of the clean debate zone so we can be as ruthless as we want to be towards this topic. Now the Democrats are just making ignorant excuses as children don't have anything to do with inflation and gas prices. With the exception of rape and harm towards the mother and or unborn child, abortion is murder! Plain and simple.


Even then in the case of rape there's adoption available and any mother that would choose her life over the life of her child doesn't deserve to be called a mother in my book. I missed the part why we're still having this argument.

Conservatives debate abortion from a scientific and philosophical level.
Democrats debate abortion from an emotional and victimhood level.

The question of when a human is worthy of protection is a valid one to discuss... Unfortunately most healthy, good faith discussions are squashed by angry feminists who declare that anyone who disagrees with their right kill the fetus is a patriarchal controlling bigot who wants them in the kitchen and having babies.

It's ridiculous.. like trying to debate a rabid, rabies-infected dog.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Kamala was asked why the democrats did not codify abortion into law when they had the chance

She also completely lied and said the GOP wants to ban abortion.

Who does that?

What a liar, and a nasty immoral one at that. I bet most of her base believes it to. She has to scare her voters to the polls.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Because we do not want to force the victim of a rape to bear the child of the rapist

She has enough trauma

There have been cases where a woman brings an innocent life to term despite such a horrendous causation and is absolutely glad to have saved the life. Such a sacrifice deserves to applauded much like that of a person who dives into the water to save someone who is drowning.

It depends on how you view life. If you saw a helpless baby in a basket floating down a river... you'd have no obligation to save it, but you might feel compelled to rescue it, and be "stuck" with it as nobody else will take it from you.

Very similar concept. If you view your self-harm above human life... you'll look to kill the life to block it out. If you value human life over self-harm, you'll view the life as innocent in all this, and make chicken salad out of chicken sh$t.

Or better yet, make another couple's lives complete by offering the baby to be adopted... a couple who cannot conceive.

A curse can become a blessing very quickly. You just have to drop the dramatic, absolute victim mindset that you have.. being that you're a major leftist, and constantly focus on what you don't have, not what you do have.