Why are Illegals Bad?

[HereWeGoAgain]

I was making 12 bucks an hour in 82 at 17 as a high end Bicycle mechanic.
Of course I knew my shit far better than the average bike mechanic because I had a thirst for knowledge.

 

[bgrouse]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

 

[sealybobo]

Back in the day, American high school kids picked in the summer, not illegals.

Now that the aca is going away they'll need the mone

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

its less for the person hiring the painter or landscaper

 

[bgrouse]

Back in the day, American high school kids picked in the summer, not illegals.

Now that the aca is going away they'll need the mone

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

its less for the person hiring the painter or landscaper

Save now, pay later when you pay taxes for his or his kids' free healthcare.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Illegal immigration small potatoes compared with what the 1% get away with on a daily basis?!
Illegal immigration is actually not "immigration," it's illegal entry. Socialist programs get strained with a large influx of people entering illegally. A good example is Europe. Their social programs are unable to cope with the vast numbers of migrants entering from Africa and the Middle-East. Sweden has also become the rape capitol of Europe because of the teachings of Muhammad. In the U.S. our forests disappear daily, so too do our family farms, as they disappear due to urban/suburban sprawl. I'm for ending "all" immigration.
As for that 1%...well, those individuals invented products and services that the masses desire and pay for. The more the demand, the larger the business and thus the larger the amount of money that goes into the bank for the inventor/ceo/owner/president of the company. I always have to chuckle at those who squawk...."pay equality!" Well, what do they mean?? Do idiots think that some guy who dropped out of high school and flip burgers for a living, should get equal pay to an individual who went to medical school, residency and specialty training for 12 years of his or her life, or earn that 1% income for flipping burgers or waiting tables?? The concept is ludicrous. You earn the income based upon what you are trained for or create and produce.
If you believe that those who are in that 1% bracket, shouldn't make so much, I don't see any incentive for them to produce anything as there would be little profit in it.

 

[WillowTree]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Illegal immigration small potatoes compared with what the 1% get away with on a daily basis?!
Illegal immigration is actually not "immigration," it's illegal entry. Socialist programs get strained with a large influx of people entering illegally. A good example is Europe. Their social programs are unable to cope with the vast numbers of migrants entering from Africa and the Middle-East. Sweden has also become the rape capitol of Europe because of the teachings of Muhammad. In the U.S. our forests disappear daily, so too do our family farms, as they disappear due to urban/suburban sprawl. I'm for ending "all" immigration.
As for that 1%...well, those individuals invented products and services that the masses desire and pay for. The more the demand, the larger the business and thus the larger the amount of money that goes into the bank for the inventor/ceo/owner/president of the company. I always have to chuckle at those who squawk...."pay equality!" Well, what do they mean?? Do idiots think that some guy who dropped out of high school and flip burgers for a living, should get equal pay to an individual who went to medical school, residency and specialty training for 12 years of his or her life, or earn that 1% income for flipping burgers or waiting tables?? The concept is ludicrous. You earn the income based upon what you are trained for or create and produce.
If you believe that those who are in that 1% bracket, shouldn't make so much, I don't see any incentive for them to produce anything as there would be little profit in it.

What dew the 1% get away with. Be specific.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Anytime someone talks about "illegals", what they really mean is Mexicans. Fact is, we have a lot of illegals from many other countries but the right has chosen to vicitmize Hispanicss in much the same way as they do Blacks.

Illegal or undocumented people are both good and bad for the US.

For generations, we have "used" them for the shit work we won't do for the crap money it pays and third world working conditions - wash your veggies because these people are not allowed bathroom breaks.

We also buy their drugs. Obviously, a "bad" thing but that's on us. As long as we keep buying, they'll keep selling.

The US invites them here. I've helped hundreds and almost all of them travel to the very same job every single year, then travel home and then come back the next year. They're incredibly hard working and very proud. You will never find a people more dedicated to family and community than Mexicans. The haters never see that side of them though.

Trump's wall is idiotic. It will not even slow the drug traffic and we're already seeing produce pieces go up and family farms going under.

Here's the key:

The real reason for the GOP demonetization of Mexicans is to drive American family farms out of business. Go to any auction of family farms who have gone broke and you will see that its actually really big businesses who are buying them up for pennies on the dollar. They then rent it back to the working poor who become slave labor and owned by companies like Monsanto.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Anytime someone talks about "illegals", what they really mean is Mexicans. Fact is, we have a lot of illegals from many other countries but the right has chosen to vicitmize Hispanicss in much the same way as they do Blacks.

Illegal or undocumented people are both good and bad for the US.

For generations, we have "used" them for the shit work we won't do for the crap money it pays and third world working conditions - wash your veggies because these people are not allowed bathroom breaks.

We also buy their drugs. Obviously, a "bad" thing but that's on us. As long as we keep buying, they'll keep selling.

The US invites them here. I've helped hundreds and almost all of them travel to the very same job every single year, then travel home and then come back the next year. They're incredibly hard working and very proud. You will never find a people more dedicated to family and community than Mexicans. The haters never see that side of them though.

Trump's wall is idiotic. It will not even slow the drug traffic and we're already seeing produce pieces go up and family farms going under.

Here's the key:

The real reason for the GOP demonetization of Mexicans is to drive American family farms out of business. Go to any auction of family farms who have gone broke and you will see that its actually really big businesses who are buying them up for pennies on the dollar. They then rent it back to the working poor who become slave labor and owned by companies like Monsanto.

Who overwhelmingly are the only group of peoples to show up at anti-illegal rallies, to fight for illegals, but Hispanics?

 

[pismoe]

mexicans are MOST illegals because of close proximity to the USA . Amazed that i have to tell you guys that fact . And 'mex' are a problem because they are third worlders . But like i alway say , shutdown ALL immigration into the USA .

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Illegal immigration small potatoes compared with what the 1% get away with on a daily basis?!
Illegal immigration is actually not "immigration," it's illegal entry. Socialist programs get strained with a large influx of people entering illegally. A good example is Europe. Their social programs are unable to cope with the vast numbers of migrants entering from Africa and the Middle-East. Sweden has also become the rape capitol of Europe because of the teachings of Muhammad. In the U.S. our forests disappear daily, so too do our family farms, as they disappear due to urban/suburban sprawl. I'm for ending "all" immigration.
As for that 1%...well, those individuals invented products and services that the masses desire and pay for. The more the demand, the larger the business and thus the larger the amount of money that goes into the bank for the inventor/ceo/owner/president of the company. I always have to chuckle at those who squawk...."pay equality!" Well, what do they mean?? Do idiots think that some guy who dropped out of high school and flip burgers for a living, should get equal pay to an individual who went to medical school, residency and specialty training for 12 years of his or her life, or earn that 1% income for flipping burgers or waiting tables?? The concept is ludicrous. You earn the income based upon what you are trained for or create and produce.
If you believe that those who are in that 1% bracket, shouldn't make so much, I don't see any incentive for them to produce anything as there would be little profit in it.

Same with welfare. RWNJs whine about the poor but never a word about corporate welfare.

They'll whine about the elderly, our vets, children, handicapped getting food stamps but they're in favor of the tax breaks trump wants to give to the 1% while not giving more than the price of a pair of underwear to the working class.

I don't know why but RWNJs will always vote against their own best interests.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Anytime someone talks about "illegals", what they really mean is Mexicans. Fact is, we have a lot of illegals from many other countries but the right has chosen to vicitmize Hispanicss in much the same way as they do Blacks.

Illegal or undocumented people are both good and bad for the US.

For generations, we have "used" them for the shit work we won't do for the crap money it pays and third world working conditions - wash your veggies because these people are not allowed bathroom breaks.

We also buy their drugs. Obviously, a "bad" thing but that's on us. As long as we keep buying, they'll keep selling.

The US invites them here. I've helped hundreds and almost all of them travel to the very same job every single year, then travel home and then come back the next year. They're incredibly hard working and very proud. You will never find a people more dedicated to family and community than Mexicans. The haters never see that side of them though.

Trump's wall is idiotic. It will not even slow the drug traffic and we're already seeing produce pieces go up and family farms going under.

Here's the key:

The real reason for the GOP demonetization of Mexicans is to drive American family farms out of business. Go to any auction of family farms who have gone broke and you will see that its actually really big businesses who are buying them up for pennies on the dollar. They then rent it back to the working poor who become slave labor and owned by companies like Monsanto.

Who overwhelmingly are the only group of peoples to show up at anti-illegal rallies, to fight for illegals, but Hispanics?

Says the guy who goes around looking at their IDs. Or is that pismoe 's job?

Actually, pismoe actually got this one partly correct. I know right? pismoe never gets anything right!

Mexico is the closest but there are other reasons they're there and, as I said, there are a lot of other countries who work shit jobs here.

No, Mexico is not "third world".

I really do wish the racists could, would - **** it. They believe what they want to believe and I'm tired of explaining the same thing over and over.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

They pay all the same taxes you and I do.

The difference is they get nothing back.

Think it through.

Back in the day, American high school kids picked in the summer, not illegals.

Now that the aca is going away they'll need the mone

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

its less for the person hiring the painter or landscaper

Save now, pay later when you pay taxes for his or his kids' free healthcare.

Any idea why undocumented CAN get SOME free health care?

You can thank Ronnie RayGun for EMTALA.

OTOH, ObamaCares still does not allow non-citizens to buy through the exchanges.

 

[Bleipriester]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

The question is why natives should be punished for breaking the law while foreigners shouldn´t.
Seeking a better life can justify so many things...

 

[bgrouse]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

They pay all the same taxes you and I do.

The difference is they get nothing back.

Think it through.

Yeah! I'm sure they report all the cash they make landscaping!

See, without a social security number, the employer can't report their wages and the illegal can't do it. Not without raising red flags.

Back in the day, American high school kids picked in the summer, not illegals.

Now that the aca is going away they'll need the mone

Because the people that come tend to be criminals, idiots, and scumbags. There's a reason they choose to become illegal immigrants and it's not because they're intelligent, productive individuals in their countries. So when they come they tend to hurt the country more than help it by shitting out kid after kid after kid and eating up government resources.

Typically not true. They work harder for less

The "less" isn't so much less when you figure in the fact that many pay no taxes and work for cash.

its less for the person hiring the painter or landscaper

Save now, pay later when you pay taxes for his or his kids' free healthcare.

Any idea why undocumented CAN get SOME free health care?

You can thank Ronnie RayGun for EMTALA.

OTOH, ObamaCares still does not allow non-citizens to buy through the exchanges.

Buying? Exchanges? They just go to the emergency room.

 

[pismoe]

not third worlders . Check out their last earthquake a few weeks ago and see the collapsed buildings that the 'mex' third worlders built Ludeley !!

 

[Marxist_Trash]

In response to those asking me to be more specific about what the 1% get away with; if people would like more reasons, I'll be happy to give them, whether here or in PM. But I'll stick with two that will remain most relevant to the discussion at hand, that will help me form my case as to why I consider illegal immigration to be less of a problem.

We can start with tax evasion. I see a lot of arguments concerned with sovereignty and people paying their fair share into a system to get rewards out, which is understandable (though I will be honest in saying i'm not a nationalist). Considering that thought for a moment, what do corporations realistically contribute in proportion to their earnings? Our own president, a self-proclaimed captain of industry, hasn't payed corporate taxes for over a decade. Why is he considered a savvy businessman while illegals are considered...well, illegal? Shouldn't corporations be forced to submit entirely to the goverment's needs, if immigrants must follow the same regulations to become legal citizens, and said government is supposedly of the people, by the people, and for the people?

On the concept of sovereignty: many corporations hire these illegal immigrants without a second thought. Don't tell me you haven't stayed in a chain hotel like Hilton to see someone who barely speaks a word of English cleaning rooms next to yours. The only reason these immigrants compete with lower wage workers is because people are willing to hire them. They have to be HIRED in order to earn money. And I sincerely doubt that an illegal alien from Mexico has the funds to get a fake identity convincing enough to swindle their way through every employee recruiter they meet. And because this money is often shipped out of country to their families back home: in essence, it's another way corporations get around giving their fair share to people...aka, submitting to the sovereignty of the American state and the people that it supposedly represents.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At any rate, I can empathize with why people are angry at them in the economic sense. I've read as of late that they incur a total of about 110 billion dollars in costs to the American government, which in turn impacts families. But I can't help but feel as though this is an issue that is being tackled incorrectly due to all the social vitriol it causes; illegals do contribute about 18 billion in taxes per year, and I honestly think it would be a lot less of an issue if workers who were born and raised in the US, especially those in rural/small town areas that have been forgotten for so long, were treated as if they actually existed.

Which brings me to another question I have, for anyone willing to discuss; why does the US government provide special considerations for illegal immigrants and treat legitimate economic concerns of the native working class as racist? I mean that seems to be the main issue here, is money; the US has had culture shocks before from waves of immigration and withstood all of them, after all.

 

[bgrouse]

In response to those asking me to be more specific about what the 1% get away with; if people would like more reasons, I'll be happy to give them, whether here or in PM. But I'll stick with two that will remain most relevant to the discussion at hand, that will help me form my case as to why I consider illegal immigration to be less of a problem.

We can start with tax evasion. I see a lot of arguments concerned with sovereignty and people paying their fair share into a system to get rewards out, which is understandable (though I will be honest in saying i'm not a nationalist). Considering that thought for a moment, what do corporations realistically contribute in proportion to their earnings? Our own president, a self-proclaimed captain of industry, hasn't payed corporate taxes for over a decade.

Corporations, which are treated as separate, tax-paying entities, pay corporate income tax, so I'm not surprised Trump didn't pay any on his income tax.

Why is he considered a savvy businessman while illegals are considered...well, illegal? Shouldn't corporations be forced to submit entirely to the goverment's needs, if immigrants must follow the same regulations to become legal citizens, and said government is supposedly of the people, by the people, and for the people?

On the concept of sovereignty: many corporations hire these illegal immigrants without a second thought. Don't tell me you haven't stayed in a chain hotel like Hilton to see someone who barely speaks a word of English cleaning rooms next to yours. The only reason these immigrants compete with lower wage workers is because people are willing to hire them. They have to be HIRED in order to earn money. And I sincerely doubt that an illegal alien from Mexico has the funds to get a fake identity convincing enough to swindle their way through every employee recruiter they meet. And because this money is often shipped out of country to their families back home: in essence, it's another way corporations get around giving their fair share to people...aka, submitting to the sovereignty of the American state and the people that it supposedly represents.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At any rate, I can empathize with why people are angry at them in the economic sense. I've read as of late that they incur a total of about 110 billion dollars in costs to the American government, which in turn impacts families. But I can't help but feel as though this is an issue that is being tackled incorrectly due to all the social vitriol it causes; illegals do contribute about 18 billion in taxes per year, and I honestly think it would be a lot less of an issue if workers who were born and raised in the US, especially those in rural/small town areas that have been forgotten for so long, were treated as if they actually existed.

Which brings me to another question I have, for anyone willing to discuss; why does the US government provide special considerations for illegal immigrants and treat legitimate economic concerns of the native working class as racist? I mean that seems to be the main issue here, is money; the US has had culture shocks before from waves of immigration and withstood all of them, after all.

 

[bgrouse]

In response to those asking me to be more specific about what the 1% get away with; if people would like more reasons, I'll be happy to give them, whether here or in PM. But I'll stick with two that will remain most relevant to the discussion at hand, that will help me form my case as to why I consider illegal immigration to be less of a problem.

We can start with tax evasion. I see a lot of arguments concerned with sovereignty and people paying their fair share into a system to get rewards out, which is understandable (though I will be honest in saying i'm not a nationalist). Considering that thought for a moment, what do corporations realistically contribute in proportion to their earnings? Our own president, a self-proclaimed captain of industry, hasn't payed corporate taxes for over a decade.

Corporations, which are treated as separate, tax-paying entities, pay corporate income tax, so I'm not surprised Trump didn't pay any on his income tax.

Why is he considered a savvy businessman while illegals are considered...well, illegal? Shouldn't corporations be forced to submit entirely to the goverment's needs, if immigrants must follow the same regulations to become legal citizens, and said government is supposedly of the people, by the people, and for the people?

On the concept of sovereignty: many corporations hire these illegal immigrants without a second thought. Don't tell me you haven't stayed in a chain hotel like Hilton to see someone who barely speaks a word of English cleaning rooms next to yours. The only reason these immigrants compete with lower wage workers is because people are willing to hire them. They have to be HIRED in order to earn money. And I sincerely doubt that an illegal alien from Mexico has the funds to get a fake identity convincing enough to swindle their way through every employee recruiter they meet. And because this money is often shipped out of country to their families back home: in essence, it's another way corporations get around giving their fair share to people...aka, submitting to the sovereignty of the American state and the people that it supposedly represents.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At any rate, I can empathize with why people are angry at them in the economic sense. I've read as of late that they incur a total of about 110 billion dollars in costs to the American government, which in turn impacts families. But I can't help but feel as though this is an issue that is being tackled incorrectly due to all the social vitriol it causes; illegals do contribute about 18 billion in taxes per year, and I honestly think it would be a lot less of an issue if workers who were born and raised in the US, especially those in rural/small town areas that have been forgotten for so long, were treated as if they actually existed.

Which brings me to another question I have, for anyone willing to discuss; why does the US government provide special considerations for illegal immigrants and treat legitimate economic concerns of the native working class as racist? I mean that seems to be the main issue here, is money; the US has had culture shocks before from waves of immigration and withstood all of them, after all.

 

[anotherlife]

I think the illegals don't want citizenship. That would enable of tracking them and taxing them. What the illegals want is to come and go in and out of the USA, as per seasonal work or personal whim.

 

[SeaGal]

Dumb question, but one i'd like to hear the answer for.

Though I come from a position that illegal immigration is small potatoes compared to what the 1% get away with on a daily basis, and that it seems to be more of an issue of social nationalism than of any economic damage it causes, I would like to hear as many takes on this particular issue as possible. Not necessarily seeking to debate, just to get educated and understand where people come from on this, on both sides if anyone's willing.

To begin with - illegals are not bad -though some arrive with bad intentions. Ignoring the rule of law is bad. Estimates are that nearly 40% of the people here illegally are visa overstays...which we should enforce.

The political and economic chaos that arises from the unequal or selective application of the rule of law, ie corruption, in the home country is what causes the flight. For uninvited 'guests' to then demand that their host country corrupt or selectively enforce its rule of law is to advocate for the conditions that made their homeland so unlivable in the first place.

We can have open borders or a welfare state, not both.