Zone1 Why are Christians opposed to abortion when God.....

[frigidweirdo]

This mortal life is a temporary life and God is the overseer and director of this mortal life. It is His right and responsibility to run this mortal life and to make certain that it is run the way he wants it to be run. He has the right to place whomever he wishes into this life and he has the right to remove whomever he wishes from this life. When mankind becomes overly wicked in this life, God reserves the right to remove the wicked and start over with the righteous. While we are on this earth, God does not want us to destroy each others opportunity to live in this world. Thus he has given the temporary commandment for a mortal life to not kill one another. However, this command only applies to we who are sent to this earth. God, as the overseer and director reserves the right to place on this earth and remove from this earth whomever He deems appropriate. He is God and He is in charge. In the eyes of God, this temporary mortal life has a specific purpose and God makes the decision when a person enters and exits this world. For mankind who are placed on this earth, it is the will of God that they do not kill one another. It is only the right of God to determine when a being is to be taken from this earth. The commandment to not kill is a temporary command for those who live upon a mortal world. In the immortal, eternal world there is no death of the body. Those who live in eternity cannot kill one another. Only on mortal worlds is it possible to kill the body. The commandment is given to mankind when they are placed upon a mortal world. However, God himself, as the overseer and director of the mortal worlds is not subject to the temporary command that He gives to mortal mankind. As the director of the mortal world, He has the responsibility to determine when a person comes to this life and when he will exit this life. If mankind, through their God given free will and choice, decides to make the entire world a wicked place, God can decide to remove the wicked from the earth at any time. In fact he can decide also when to remove the righteous. It is his world and He decides the temporal status of each of us he places upon this earth. God is not mortal man but God is God and is in charge of this whole plan of temporal existence upon the earth.

If you have the "right to do something", does that mean you should?

If you're the person in power, should you do evil things to people, simply because you have the power to do evil things?

If God made people, and people then become "wicked", who's fault is that?
A similar question might be, if parents bring their kid up and their kid is naughty, is it their fault?

Why would God not want us to destroy each other's opportunity in this world, when God did it to almost everyone? Surely God would want me to kill the "wicked".

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Thanks for the link. Oddly,I didn't think to check post #125 of all the other hundreds of threads to figure out which one you were talking about. I'm really not a mind reader. The OP of this thread is the designated subject of this conversation. If you don't want to discuss that, then you should start your own thread --- dumbass.

It's a standard response of mine, when someone posts a post that is complete bullshit, and then refers back to that post, as if referring back to it makes it any less bullshit than it was when originally posted.

 

[onefour1]

If you have the "right to do something", does that mean you should?

If you're the person in power, should you do evil things to people, simply because you have the power to do evil things?

If God made people, and people then become "wicked", who's fault is that?
A similar question might be, if parents bring their kid up and their kid is naughty, is it their fault?

Why would God not want us to destroy each other's opportunity in this world, when God did it to almost everyone? Surely God would want me to kill the "wicked".

God is the judge of us all. He can determine if your temporary existence in this life is finished. If people sell their souls to the devil and reject God and will not repent and come unto him, it is God's right to pull them back out of this temporary existence so that they can be judged according to the life they chose to lead. If they corrupt the world to the degree that it is hard for any born into it to live a righteous life, then God has the right to take them out and start fresh again as He did in the case of those living in the days of Noah and his family and as He will do in coming days at his second coming. God does not do evil to others but as the overseer of this life, he gives you the opportunity to choose your own fate and He is the judge of what you do with your free will. This life is temporary and God has the right to put you here and to take you out of here whenever he pleases. It is His earth and he is the rule maker of this existence. He is just in all his ways and all mankind will eventually bow the knee and confess that Jesus is the Christ when they are made fully aware of his just and holy ways. You can pass your judgement upon God without fully understanding his ways but in the end you too will bow the knee and confess that you were wrong and He was just in all his doings. This life was not meant for us to eternally live here in sin nor was our mortality mean to continue on and on and on. It will eventually come to an end for all of us and we will all stand before the judgement bar of God and be held accountable for the choices we made in this world. God is the judge of all and His law is the law of eternity and the law of this mortal world. According to His law you and I and the rest of mankind will be judged and receive our just recompense for the choices we made in this world. God is not subject unto our thoughts and our definitions of what is good or evil but only to his own laws which are just and equitable. We will come to understand the goodness and fairness of God's law and true purpose of this life and why God does what he does. He is God and we are his children. We were sent here to learn to choose good over evil and the opposite. God is longsuffering and gives mankind the opportunity to accept the gospel and repent of their sins. God is ready to forgive us of our wickedness and evil ways if we learn to change our hearts and accept him as our Lord and Savior. God has even provided a means for all to have the opportunity to receive his gospel either in this life or in the world of the spirits of the dead. For this reason was the gospel preached unto those who are dead.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 

[BULLDOG]

God is the judge of us all. He can determine if your temporary existence in this life is finished. If people sell their souls to the devil and reject God and will not repent and come unto him, it is God's right to pull them back out of this temporary existence so that they can be judged according to the life they chose to lead. If they corrupt the world to the degree that it is hard for any born into it to live a righteous life, then God has the right to take them out and start fresh again as He did in the case of those living in the days of Noah and his family and as He will do in coming days at his second coming. God does not do evil to others but as the overseer of this life, he gives you the opportunity to choose your own fate and He is the judge of what you do with your free will. This life is temporary and God has the right to put you here and to take you out of here whenever he pleases. It is His earth and he is the rule maker of this existence. He is just in all his ways and all mankind will eventually bow the knee and confess that Jesus is the Christ when they are made fully aware of his just and holy ways. You can pass your judgement upon God without fully understanding his ways but in the end you too will bow the knee and confess that you were wrong and He was just in all his doings. This life was not meant for us to eternally live here in sin nor was our mortality mean to continue on and on and on. It will eventually come to an end for all of us and we will all stand before the judgement bar of God and be held accountable for the choices we made in this world. God is the judge of all and His law is the law of eternity and the law of this mortal world. According to His law you and I and the rest of mankind will be judged and receive our just recompense for the choices we made in this world. God is not subject unto our thoughts and our definitions of what is good or evil but only to his own laws which are just and equitable. We will come to understand the goodness and fairness of God's law and true purpose of this life and why God does what he does. He is God and we are his children. We were sent here to learn to choose good over evil and the opposite. God is longsuffering and gives mankind the opportunity to accept the gospel and repent of their sins. God is ready to forgive us of our wickedness and evil ways if we learn to change our hearts and accept him as our Lord and Savior. God has even provided a means for all to have the opportunity to receive his gospel either in this life or in the world of the spirits of the dead. For this reason was the gospel preached unto those who are dead.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

You have a right to believe all those things. You just don't have a right to impose those beliefs on others. You do you. I'll do me.

 

[onefour1]

You have a right to believe all those things. You just don't have a right to impose those beliefs on others. You do you. I'll do me.

God doesn't impose righteousness on anyone. However, he does impose his judgement on all. You will go where you list to go. He cannot allow us into a kingdom which goes according to his higher law if we are not willing to abide by that law. In God's vast rule, there are several kingdoms where those of us choose to go based on our willingness to accept certain laws. The kingdom of God is the highest. In this life God has given us a majority of his law and only those who list to obey his laws will be able to gain access to his kingdom.

I certainly cannot impose anything upon you. You are free to choose and nobody is forcing you to. However, your choices will determine which kingdoms you are allowed into and which ones you are not. You don't get to do whatever you want and still gain entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[frigidweirdo]

God is the judge of us all. He can determine if your temporary existence in this life is finished. If people sell their souls to the devil and reject God and will not repent and come unto him, it is God's right to pull them back out of this temporary existence so that they can be judged according to the life they chose to lead. If they corrupt the world to the degree that it is hard for any born into it to live a righteous life, then God has the right to take them out and start fresh again as He did in the case of those living in the days of Noah and his family and as He will do in coming days at his second coming. God does not do evil to others but as the overseer of this life, he gives you the opportunity to choose your own fate and He is the judge of what you do with your free will. This life is temporary and God has the right to put you here and to take you out of here whenever he pleases. It is His earth and he is the rule maker of this existence. He is just in all his ways and all mankind will eventually bow the knee and confess that Jesus is the Christ when they are made fully aware of his just and holy ways. You can pass your judgement upon God without fully understanding his ways but in the end you too will bow the knee and confess that you were wrong and He was just in all his doings. This life was not meant for us to eternally live here in sin nor was our mortality mean to continue on and on and on. It will eventually come to an end for all of us and we will all stand before the judgement bar of God and be held accountable for the choices we made in this world. God is the judge of all and His law is the law of eternity and the law of this mortal world. According to His law you and I and the rest of mankind will be judged and receive our just recompense for the choices we made in this world. God is not subject unto our thoughts and our definitions of what is good or evil but only to his own laws which are just and equitable. We will come to understand the goodness and fairness of God's law and true purpose of this life and why God does what he does. He is God and we are his children. We were sent here to learn to choose good over evil and the opposite. God is longsuffering and gives mankind the opportunity to accept the gospel and repent of their sins. God is ready to forgive us of our wickedness and evil ways if we learn to change our hearts and accept him as our Lord and Savior. God has even provided a means for all to have the opportunity to receive his gospel either in this life or in the world of the spirits of the dead. For this reason was the gospel preached unto those who are dead.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

You aren't going to answer my questions, are you?

 

[onefour1]

You aren't going to answer my questions, are you?

You're not going to see the answers to your questions in my response, are you?

 

[BothWings]

For those (like me) who don't actually take the Bible literally....saying God did it it's kind of like saying it was their fate. Possibly the result of choices made by MAN, and certain warnings and lessons about it are outlined in the Bible as well. The story of Noah seems to point to a mass die-out. How is it that we can uncover the truth about a planet killing asteroid that hit the Yucatan peninsula millions of years ago but we don't see any real proof of a flood? In my mind that is simply a metaphor for a mass die-out, likely caused by poor choices in human history.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You're not going to see the answers to your questions in my response, are you?

Literally, no.
We either have a conversation, or don't. You posting huge lumps of theological text isn't my idea of a conversation. So, either answer my questions or we're done.

 

[BULLDOG]

You aren't going to answer my questions, are you?

You're not going to get an answer. When asked a question they have no answer for all they can do is tell you how powerful and good their god is. If they ever have any questions, a response like that is all it takes to reassure them, so they don't understand why others might want a real answer to a real question.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You're not going to get an answer. When asked a question they have no answer for all they can do is tell you how powerful and good their god is. If they ever have any questions, a response like that is all it takes to reassure them, so they don't understand why others might want a real answer to a real question.

I've had some good discussions on this thread, but this particular person doesn't seem interested in discussion. Merely just posting huge clumps of text that probably have nothing much to do with what I asked.

 

[hobelim]

oh how they just looooooooove to bring up S & G when it comes to hating the homogays, but always seems to forget the rest of that there biblical story. i guess boinking ones' daughter just isn't as nasty as same sex boinking.

Right? Some "deeply religious" people even use this story to justify incest. Imagine that! Not to mention that the priests who forsake natural relations with women and essentially marry the Pope for life have the audacity to condemn gay marriage as perverse as if, by their own standards, forsaking natural relations with women marrying the pope and becoming celibate isn't perverse!

They should pray that God doesn't exist because if he does they have a lot of 'splaining to do.

I won't even mention the hypocrisy of their equating abortion with murder when their entire religion celebrates the murder of Jesus and then they have had the audacity to openly murder the minds of children without compunction for millennia by teaching them to become idolators, which, if their own professed beliefs are true, results in death, a curse. They are all murderers, in the same exact way that Jesus meant when he said "Satan was a murderer from the beginning."

Uh oh! Wait a minute! I guess I did mention it....

 

[ding]

when God killed ALL babies in the great flood of Noah's Ark flood fame?

I write this not to anger people, if you're not interested in discussing it, then don't. Keep your religion to yourself and move on. I write this because I've had a conversation in another thread and thought it might be a good question to ask for those who want to test their religion against my lack of religion.

You do realize the flaw in your argument, right?

 

[ding]

We are having two different converstions. I am discussing opposition to abortion in light of the countless innocent deaths god is credited with causing while you are trying to convince me that the god you worship is a great guy, and I should worship him too. Please stay on subject. I'll let you give an invotation and sing a couple of stanzas of Just As I Am at the end.

You were never a deacon. That's why you dodged her question.

Abortion is a human rights issue. At conception a new genetically distinct human being has come into existence. One that has never existed before and will never exist again. You want to justify ending its life using scriptures you yourself don't believe. That's a wholly disingenuous argument. Why don't you just admit that ending a human life is wrong and you still support doing it and be done with this conversation?

 

[BULLDOG]

You were never a deacon. That's why you dodged her question.

Abortion is a human rights issue. At conception a new genetically distinct human being has come into existence. One that has never existed before and will never exist again. You want to justify ending its life using scriptures you yourself don't believe. That's a wholly disingenuous argument. Why don't you just admit that ending a human life is wrong and you still support doing it and be done with this conversation?

I don't lie, other than the occasional white lie, like "that meal was great" or "I like your new hairstyle" I'm OK if you choose to believe I am lying. My truthfulness is not for you anyway. It's for me.

A small cluster of cells is not a person.

The OP is about opinion of abortion in light of religious teachings. Quit whining because I'm staying on subject.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I don't lie…

So you say, just before you go on to tell a particularly vile, hateful, murderous, and outright evil lie.

A small cluster of cells is not a person.

That lie will never become true, no matter how often, how lately, how hatefully, or how malevolently you repeat it.

And that's not just a “little white lie”, like "that meal was great" or "I like your new hairstyle"; that is a malicious lie, intended to deny the very humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings, to excuse the savage, cold-blooded murder thereof. It is a lie born of evil, murderous intent.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you say, just before you go on to tell a particularly vile, hateful, murderous, and outright evil lie.

​

That lie will never become true, no matter how often, how lately, how hatefully, or how malevolently you repeat it.

And that's not just a “little white lie”, like "that meal was great" or "I like your new hairstyle"; that is a malicious lie, intended to deny the very humanity of the most innocent and defenseless of all human beings, to excuse the savage, cold-blooded murder thereof. It is a lie born of evil, murderous intent.

And we're back to questioning the morality of a god that chose death for countless innocent children.

 

[ding]

I don't lie, other than the occasional white lie, like "that meal was great" or "I like your new hairstyle" I'm OK if you choose to believe I am lying. My truthfulness is not for you anyway. It's for me.

A small cluster of cells is not a person.

The OP is about opinion of abortion in light of religious teachings. Quit whining because I'm staying on subject.

I think you are lying about having been a deacon. And clearly you have no idea what the science tells us about when a NEW, GENETICALLY DISTINCT, HUMAN BEING comes into existence. That you must dehumanize them rather than acknowledge them tells me you know it's wrong to end their life. The OP's religious understanding of what the bible teaches is even less accurate than your flawed understanding of when science tells us a new human being is created. So of course you are going to stay on subject. The subject is a straw-man of convenience which couldn't be farther from reality.

 

[ding]

And we're back to questioning the morality of a god that chose death for countless innocent children.

Didn't happen. Jewish embellishment that was used to make an entirely different point. And let's not forget that it didn't actually happen. They didn't kill every man woman and child. But when it comes to life in the womb you would be just fine if they were all killed, right? After all they're just a clump of cells, right? Your dehumanization of life in the womb is literally no different from Hitler's dehumanization of the Jews. Or slave owner's dehumanization of blacks.

 

[BULLDOG]

Didn't happen. Jewish embellishment that was used to make an entirely different point. And let's not forget that it didn't actually happen. They didn't kill every man woman and child. But when it comes to life in the womb you would be just fine if they were all killed, right? After all they're just a clump of cells, right? Your dehumanization of life in the womb is literally no different from Hitler's dehumanization of the Jews. Or slave owner's dehumanization of blacks.

So killing the first born was just an inconsequential event? Makes it much easier when you can just pick and choose the parts you like, doesn't it?