Why anti gun people are so angry.....

[2aguy]

As a responsible seller you can...right now...tell the buyer that before you sell the gun both you and he have to go to a local gun store or police station and run his background.....no universal background law required.......

If you are not a responsible seller, and think a 600 dollar gun sale is worth several years of federal prison time....you would sell the gun to the guy who says he can't pass a background check anyway.....right now.....with the current system that states that felons can't buy guns........

True, but that is ONLY if the guy tells you he couldn't pass a background check. Most people wouldn't volunteer that information.

If you sell it to him and you can convince a DA that you didn't know he wouldn't pass a background check, you have no problems.

Any seller today will ask if he can own a gun since selling to him and not knowing will bring in the feds regardless if you knew or not...they will turn your life upside down until you prove you didn't know....they will give you an anal exam...they will try their best to put you in jail....and you will spend thousands of dollars on legal fees if they try to prove you knew....

So again, no...there is no need for super duper background checks.......

This is very true, so you would think it would be in the seller's best interest to have that piece of paper that says "passed background check"

I'm a bit confused on your stance here, you claim that responsible gun owners will do the background checks anyway, so there is no need for a law that requires it.

Responsible drinkers don't drink and drive, and yet we have laws against drinking and driving, etc etc.

But we don't have bars running background checks on their customers before they drink...do we...and that isn't a right.....you are arrested when you are caught breaking existing law....we do not have the bar run a criminal check for DUIs do we..........now that I have said that I regret it.....too many people will want to do that now as well......

This is very true, so you would think it would be in the seller's best interest to have that piece of paper that says "passed background check"

For their own safety, yes......but again...they can do that now...without super duper background checks........

Correct, they CAN do it, I prefer a law that says the MUST do it. You have agreed that responsible gun owners will do it eithe rway, so I must ask, what the fuck are you arguing about here? THe right to be an irresponsible gun owner?

no....there is no need for this law and it is intended to trip up responsible gun owners because if it is a law, and they don't do it they are now felons...not innocent people.........just for selling a lawful product.....

The gun grabbers want those innocent people tripped up and arrested........as examples to other gun owners.....

I have already shown that criminals will ignore your new, super duper universal background check as easily as they bypass the current one....they will have relatives who can pass the check buy the gun, or they will steal them.....so there is at the first point...no reason for universal background checks other than to trip up law abiding citizens.....

 

[2aguy]

Set up internet stings....sell guns to people who won't go to a gun dealer...when they come to get the gun...arrest them.......

Set up internet stings....say you want to buy a gun...if they won't send the gun to a real gun dealer to pick it up and get a background check, when they show up....arrest them...

Done and done....

Arrest them for what? There is no current law requiring them to perform the background check, that is what you are not understanding. I have lots of guns. I could list them on Craigslist or whatever and sell them, and there is no current law requiring a background check

You have to send them to a gun store to transfer them....then before they release those guns they must do a background check...right now......

If you sell those guns on Craigslist......and don't do that...you can be arrested...right now.......and then you have to prove you aren't a straw seller of guns....and you don't need to have super duper universal background checks......

No you can not be. Quote the law man.

The current law states that you must ASK the person if they could pass a background check. How many people do you think even do that? Then of the ones who do ask, how many buyers who couldn't do you really think are going to say "no man I couldn't pass a background check?"

If you ask, and the person lies to you, you are off the hook. Worse, it would be virtually impossible to prove you lied if you said you asked when you hadn't.

You're being dishonest here. You know there are a lot of sale going on where no one is asked about background checks , and that proving no one was asked would be virtually impossible.

And I just showed you it doesn't matter....except if you want to trip up law abiding citizens......which is the goal...

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

True, but that is ONLY if the guy tells you he couldn't pass a background check. Most people wouldn't volunteer that information.

If you sell it to him and you can convince a DA that you didn't know he wouldn't pass a background check, you have no problems.

Any seller today will ask if he can own a gun since selling to him and not knowing will bring in the feds regardless if you knew or not...they will turn your life upside down until you prove you didn't know....they will give you an anal exam...they will try their best to put you in jail....and you will spend thousands of dollars on legal fees if they try to prove you knew....

So again, no...there is no need for super duper background checks.......

This is very true, so you would think it would be in the seller's best interest to have that piece of paper that says "passed background check"

I'm a bit confused on your stance here, you claim that responsible gun owners will do the background checks anyway, so there is no need for a law that requires it.

Responsible drinkers don't drink and drive, and yet we have laws against drinking and driving, etc etc.

But we don't have bars running background checks on their customers before they drink...do we...and that isn't a right.....you are arrested when you are caught breaking existing law....we do not have the bar run a criminal check for DUIs do we..........now that I have said that I regret it.....too many people will want to do that now as well......

This is very true, so you would think it would be in the seller's best interest to have that piece of paper that says "passed background check"

For their own safety, yes......but again...they can do that now...without super duper background checks........

Correct, they CAN do it, I prefer a law that says the MUST do it. You have agreed that responsible gun owners will do it eithe rway, so I must ask, what the fuck are you arguing about here? THe right to be an irresponsible gun owner?

no....there is no need for this law and it is intended to trip up responsible gun owners because if it is a law, and they don't do it they are now felons...not innocent people.........just for selling a lawful product.....

The gun grabbers want those innocent people tripped up and arrested........as examples to other gun owners.....

I have already shown that criminals will ignore your new, super duper universal background check as easily as they bypass the current one....they will have relatives who can pass the check buy the gun, or they will steal them.....so there is at the first point...no reason for universal background checks other than to trip up law abiding citizens.....

How are you an innocent person who gets tripped up if you break the law, be definition, you would no longer be an innocent person.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Set up internet stings....sell guns to people who won't go to a gun dealer...when they come to get the gun...arrest them.......

Set up internet stings....say you want to buy a gun...if they won't send the gun to a real gun dealer to pick it up and get a background check, when they show up....arrest them...

Done and done....

Arrest them for what? There is no current law requiring them to perform the background check, that is what you are not understanding. I have lots of guns. I could list them on Craigslist or whatever and sell them, and there is no current law requiring a background check

You have to send them to a gun store to transfer them....then before they release those guns they must do a background check...right now......

If you sell those guns on Craigslist......and don't do that...you can be arrested...right now.......and then you have to prove you aren't a straw seller of guns....and you don't need to have super duper universal background checks......

No you can not be. Quote the law man.

The current law states that you must ASK the person if they could pass a background check. How many people do you think even do that? Then of the ones who do ask, how many buyers who couldn't do you really think are going to say "no man I couldn't pass a background check?"

If you ask, and the person lies to you, you are off the hook. Worse, it would be virtually impossible to prove you lied if you said you asked when you hadn't.

You're being dishonest here. You know there are a lot of sale going on where no one is asked about background checks , and that proving no one was asked would be virtually impossible.

And I just showed you it doesn't matter....except if you want to trip up law abiding citizens......which is the goal...

And I ask again, how would an innocent person get tripped up? You have previously claimed that responsible gun owners are already doing the background checks. Were you lying when you claimed that?

 

[2aguy]

Set up internet stings....sell guns to people who won't go to a gun dealer...when they come to get the gun...arrest them.......

Set up internet stings....say you want to buy a gun...if they won't send the gun to a real gun dealer to pick it up and get a background check, when they show up....arrest them...

Done and done....

Arrest them for what? There is no current law requiring them to perform the background check, that is what you are not understanding. I have lots of guns. I could list them on Craigslist or whatever and sell them, and there is no current law requiring a background check

This is what you arrest them for......you send in your undercover cop and ask to buy a gun and you tell them, openly...I can't pass a background check...I have an old felony conviction....if they say I don't care let's do this anyway...you arrest them since they now know you are a felon.......

You set up an undercover table at a gun show and ask each customer trying to buy a gun to go through a background check...if they say they can't pass the check you say...hey...let's do this anyway..and if they buy the gun anyway...you fucking arrest them since they know they can't own the gun and have just broken the law.......

no universal background check needed.....

That is just dumb.

Let's get rid of DUI limits as well. We'll just stop cars once in awhile and ask the driver if he's drunk. If he says "yes" we'll arrest him, if not , he can go on his way.

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Set up internet stings....sell guns to people who won't go to a gun dealer...when they come to get the gun...arrest them.......

Set up internet stings....say you want to buy a gun...if they won't send the gun to a real gun dealer to pick it up and get a background check, when they show up....arrest them...

Done and done....

Arrest them for what? There is no current law requiring them to perform the background check, that is what you are not understanding. I have lots of guns. I could list them on Craigslist or whatever and sell them, and there is no current law requiring a background check

This is what you arrest them for......you send in your undercover cop and ask to buy a gun and you tell them, openly...I can't pass a background check...I have an old felony conviction....if they say I don't care let's do this anyway...you arrest them since they now know you are a felon.......

You set up an undercover table at a gun show and ask each customer trying to buy a gun to go through a background check...if they say they can't pass the check you say...hey...let's do this anyway..and if they buy the gun anyway...you fucking arrest them since they know they can't own the gun and have just broken the law.......

no universal background check needed.....

That is just dumb.

Let's get rid of DUI limits as well. We'll just stop cars once in awhile and ask the driver if he's drunk. If he says "yes" we'll arrest him, if not , he can go on his way.

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

or what about voter ID? Voting is certainly a right, and there is ZERO doubt that requiring ID has tripped up some innocent folks. Should we do away with voter ID laws?

 

[2aguy]

Innocent people get tripped up all the time with these gun laws and their unintended consequences.....by making them complex, they catch the innocent...the woman with the concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania...drives into New Jersey....tells the police officer who did the traffick stop she has a permit and a gun...but faces a felony because she is only legal in Penn. The security guard, legally permitted to own and carry a gun...except it can't be loaded....forgets to unload it in his car.....faces a felony.....

The old man with the revolutionary war pistol........has it in his car, unloaded...it is still a pistol and he gets arrested for having an illegal gun.........

All of these people eventually got off....but spent thousands of dollars on lawyers and weeks of fear about being sent to prison for not complying with overly complex, byzantine laws designed to trip them up...by anti gunners....

 

[2aguy]

Set up internet stings....sell guns to people who won't go to a gun dealer...when they come to get the gun...arrest them.......

Set up internet stings....say you want to buy a gun...if they won't send the gun to a real gun dealer to pick it up and get a background check, when they show up....arrest them...

Done and done....

Arrest them for what? There is no current law requiring them to perform the background check, that is what you are not understanding. I have lots of guns. I could list them on Craigslist or whatever and sell them, and there is no current law requiring a background check

This is what you arrest them for......you send in your undercover cop and ask to buy a gun and you tell them, openly...I can't pass a background check...I have an old felony conviction....if they say I don't care let's do this anyway...you arrest them since they now know you are a felon.......

You set up an undercover table at a gun show and ask each customer trying to buy a gun to go through a background check...if they say they can't pass the check you say...hey...let's do this anyway..and if they buy the gun anyway...you fucking arrest them since they know they can't own the gun and have just broken the law.......

no universal background check needed.....

That is just dumb.

Let's get rid of DUI limits as well. We'll just stop cars once in awhile and ask the driver if he's drunk. If he says "yes" we'll arrest him, if not , he can go on his way.

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

yes....I don't like sobriety check points....you catch DUIs as they drive....

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Innocent people get tripped up all the time with these gun laws and their unintended consequences.....by making them complex, they catch the innocent...the woman with the concealed carry permit in Pennsylvania...drives into New Jersey....tells the police officer who did the traffick stop she has a permit and a gun...but faces a felony because she is only legal in Penn. The security guard, legally permitted to own and carry a gun...except it can't be loaded....forgets to unload it in his car.....faces a felony.....

The old man with the revolutionary war pistol........has it in his car, unloaded...it is still a pistol and he gets arrested for having an illegal gun.........

All of these people eventually got off....but spent thousands of dollars on lawyers and weeks of fear about being sent to prison for not complying with overly complex, byzantine laws designed to trip them up...by anti gunners....

I'm sorry, but in all three cases you mentioned those people were not innocent. They broke the law, unintentionally for sure, but they did break the law. Circumstances prevailed and they were released, but that doesn't change the fact that they were NOT innocents.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Arrest them for what? There is no current law requiring them to perform the background check, that is what you are not understanding. I have lots of guns. I could list them on Craigslist or whatever and sell them, and there is no current law requiring a background check

This is what you arrest them for......you send in your undercover cop and ask to buy a gun and you tell them, openly...I can't pass a background check...I have an old felony conviction....if they say I don't care let's do this anyway...you arrest them since they now know you are a felon.......

You set up an undercover table at a gun show and ask each customer trying to buy a gun to go through a background check...if they say they can't pass the check you say...hey...let's do this anyway..and if they buy the gun anyway...you fucking arrest them since they know they can't own the gun and have just broken the law.......

no universal background check needed.....

That is just dumb.

Let's get rid of DUI limits as well. We'll just stop cars once in awhile and ask the driver if he's drunk. If he says "yes" we'll arrest him, if not , he can go on his way.

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

yes....I don't like sobriety check points....you catch DUIs as they drive....

and voter ID laws?

 

[2aguy]

or what about voter ID? Voting is certainly a right, and there is ZERO doubt that requiring ID has tripped up some innocent folks. Should we do away with voter ID laws?

No...because voter id simply identifies you for who you are... a background check is a bar from practicing a right before you practice it...on the idea that you are a criminal first and have to prove you are not a criminal...in fact...background checks are a violation of the 5th amendment......against self incrimination...as the Supreme Court has shown when it said criminals can't be forced to under go them.......since they would be incriminating themselves....

 

[2aguy]

This is what you arrest them for......you send in your undercover cop and ask to buy a gun and you tell them, openly...I can't pass a background check...I have an old felony conviction....if they say I don't care let's do this anyway...you arrest them since they now know you are a felon.......

You set up an undercover table at a gun show and ask each customer trying to buy a gun to go through a background check...if they say they can't pass the check you say...hey...let's do this anyway..and if they buy the gun anyway...you fucking arrest them since they know they can't own the gun and have just broken the law.......

no universal background check needed.....

That is just dumb.

Let's get rid of DUI limits as well. We'll just stop cars once in awhile and ask the driver if he's drunk. If he says "yes" we'll arrest him, if not , he can go on his way.

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

yes....I don't like sobriety check points....you catch DUIs as they drive....

and voter ID laws?

Okay Smarter.....I hate to put this idea out there ...but here it is....

We pass a law that says that every bar in the country must do a criminal background check on each and every customer to determine if they have a DUI before they serve them.........every customer...it is not a right to drink at a bar...

So...you support this right? It would also scoop up felons...they can't drink in bars either...right?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

or what about voter ID? Voting is certainly a right, and there is ZERO doubt that requiring ID has tripped up some innocent folks. Should we do away with voter ID laws?

No...because voter id simply identifies you for who you are... a background check is a bar from practicing a right before you practice it...on the idea that you are a criminal first and have to prove you are not a criminal...in fact...background checks are a violation of the 5th amendment......against self incrimination...as the Supreme Court has shown when it said criminals can't be forced to under go them.......since they would be incriminating themselves....

how dumb are you , for real? Using that argument I could EASILY argue that requiring someone to prove they are who they claim they are when they show up to vote would be a violation of their fifth amendment rights, because if they are NOT who they say they are and can't prove it, they they have committed a crime.

And by the way, you obviously have little understanding of the ruling in Printz v. United States if you think the SCOTUS rules that backgrounds checks in general were unconstitutional. In effect all they ruled was that the federal government could not FORCE the states to comply.

Printz v. United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

THis is why the states regulate the background checks, even though they use federal databases to do so.

 

[2aguy]

or what about voter ID? Voting is certainly a right, and there is ZERO doubt that requiring ID has tripped up some innocent folks. Should we do away with voter ID laws?

No...because voter id simply identifies you for who you are... a background check is a bar from practicing a right before you practice it...on the idea that you are a criminal first and have to prove you are not a criminal...in fact...background checks are a violation of the 5th amendment......against self incrimination...as the Supreme Court has shown when it said criminals can't be forced to under go them.......since they would be incriminating themselves....

how dumb are you , for real? Using that argument I could EASILY argue that requiring someone to prove they are who they claim they are when they show up to vote would be a violation of their fifth amendment rights, because if they are NOT who they say they are and can't prove it, they they have committed a crime.

And by the way, you obviously have little understanding of the ruling in Printz v. United States if you think the SCOTUS rules that backgrounds checks in general were unconstitutional. In effect all they ruled was that the federal government could not FORCE the states to comply.

Printz v. United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

THis is why the states regulate the background checks, even though they use federal databases to do so.

Then you agree, any background check is a violation of rights...if you oppose voter id laws on those grounds...glad we agree on background checks....

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

That is just dumb.

Let's get rid of DUI limits as well. We'll just stop cars once in awhile and ask the driver if he's drunk. If he says "yes" we'll arrest him, if not , he can go on his way.

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

yes....I don't like sobriety check points....you catch DUIs as they drive....

and voter ID laws?

Okay Smarter.....I hate to put this idea out there ...but here it is....

We pass a law that says that every bar in the country must do a criminal background check on each and every customer to determine if they have a DUI before they serve them.........every customer...it is not a right to drink at a bar...

So...you support this right? It would also scoop up felons...they can't drink in bars either...right?

I would totally favor a law which prevented someone who has a DUI conviction from being served at a bar. Absolutely, completely, in fact I would give large sums of money to any candidate bold enough to suggest it. DUI is a scourge on this country.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

or what about voter ID? Voting is certainly a right, and there is ZERO doubt that requiring ID has tripped up some innocent folks. Should we do away with voter ID laws?

No...because voter id simply identifies you for who you are... a background check is a bar from practicing a right before you practice it...on the idea that you are a criminal first and have to prove you are not a criminal...in fact...background checks are a violation of the 5th amendment......against self incrimination...as the Supreme Court has shown when it said criminals can't be forced to under go them.......since they would be incriminating themselves....

how dumb are you , for real? Using that argument I could EASILY argue that requiring someone to prove they are who they claim they are when they show up to vote would be a violation of their fifth amendment rights, because if they are NOT who they say they are and can't prove it, they they have committed a crime.

And by the way, you obviously have little understanding of the ruling in Printz v. United States if you think the SCOTUS rules that backgrounds checks in general were unconstitutional. In effect all they ruled was that the federal government could not FORCE the states to comply.

Printz v. United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

THis is why the states regulate the background checks, even though they use federal databases to do so.

Then you agree, any background check is a violation of rights...if you oppose voter id laws on those grounds...glad we agree on background checks....

EHHH , I don't oppose voter id. I support it 100%

Sir, you are not going enjoy debating with me much I assure you, because see I use logic and principles when determining my positions I don't just hold to liberal or conservative dogma and leave principles at the door like most here do.

 

[2aguy]

or what about voter ID? Voting is certainly a right, and there is ZERO doubt that requiring ID has tripped up some innocent folks. Should we do away with voter ID laws?

No...because voter id simply identifies you for who you are... a background check is a bar from practicing a right before you practice it...on the idea that you are a criminal first and have to prove you are not a criminal...in fact...background checks are a violation of the 5th amendment......against self incrimination...as the Supreme Court has shown when it said criminals can't be forced to under go them.......since they would be incriminating themselves....

how dumb are you , for real? Using that argument I could EASILY argue that requiring someone to prove they are who they claim they are when they show up to vote would be a violation of their fifth amendment rights, because if they are NOT who they say they are and can't prove it, they they have committed a crime.

And by the way, you obviously have little understanding of the ruling in Printz v. United States if you think the SCOTUS rules that backgrounds checks in general were unconstitutional. In effect all they ruled was that the federal government could not FORCE the states to comply.

Printz v. United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

THis is why the states regulate the background checks, even though they use federal databases to do so.

Then you agree, any background check is a violation of rights...if you oppose voter id laws on those grounds...glad we agree on background checks....

EHHH , I don't oppose voter id. I support it 100%

Sir, you are not going enjoy debating with me much I assure you, because see I use logic and principles when determining my positions I don't just hold to liberal or conservative dogma and leave principles at the door like most here do.

Yes...you are a real genius....I have shown that any background check, both the current one and the new, super duper universal background check is easily gotten around by criminals...right now...they either steal their guns or get people who can pass current and future background checks buy the guns for them....thus voiding background checks for all but law abiding citizens who won't use them to commit crimes anyway........

so...your proposed solution solves nothing...yet you cling to it...simply to mollify anti gunners who will get more draconian if they don't get what they want...and who, from past experience have already found a way to subvert the intent of the universal background check to make it harder and more dangerous for law abiding citizens to own guns..

and who...when it is then shown that universal background checks solved nothing, and that criminals still get their guns regardless of the new super duper background checks...will then come back for their real objective.......universal background checks on sales between family members...and gun registration to enforce it.....since universal background checks still won't stop criminals from getting guns......and thus the next step must be taken....

We know how gun grabbers think, we know what they want and we know how they plan to get there.....

So keep complementing yourself...no one else is.....

 

[2aguy]

What do you think they do now............if they catch a guy who is drunk they arrest him........right? That is already how it works...right? They don't force bars to do criminal background checks on drinkers to see if they have DUIs and even if they did....the can still freaking sell them alcohol...right?

And that isn't even a protected right...

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

yes....I don't like sobriety check points....you catch DUIs as they drive....

and voter ID laws?

Okay Smarter.....I hate to put this idea out there ...but here it is....

We pass a law that says that every bar in the country must do a criminal background check on each and every customer to determine if they have a DUI before they serve them.........every customer...it is not a right to drink at a bar...

So...you support this right? It would also scoop up felons...they can't drink in bars either...right?

I would totally favor a law which prevented someone who has a DUI conviction from being served at a bar. Absolutely, completely, in fact I would give large sums of money to any candidate bold enough to suggest it. DUI is a scourge on this country.

Yes.....your true colors are flying free and clear..............

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

The analogy would be sobriety checkpoints. Do you favor getting rid of them? I mean there is no doubt that they often trip up "innocent" people.

yes....I don't like sobriety check points....you catch DUIs as they drive....

and voter ID laws?

Okay Smarter.....I hate to put this idea out there ...but here it is....

We pass a law that says that every bar in the country must do a criminal background check on each and every customer to determine if they have a DUI before they serve them.........every customer...it is not a right to drink at a bar...

So...you support this right? It would also scoop up felons...they can't drink in bars either...right?

I would totally favor a law which prevented someone who has a DUI conviction from being served at a bar. Absolutely, completely, in fact I would give large sums of money to any candidate bold enough to suggest it. DUI is a scourge on this country.

Yes.....your true colors are flying free and clear..............

And? For God's sake I was an Army MP for 20+ years. I'm an authoritarian within the framework of freedom. I admit that.

I believe Americans should be as free as they would like as long as they are not harming others and I try to base my EVERY opinion on that basis. I don't and won't hide who I am.