But there is no independent verification of what they claim. Tapes that would have supported the written record were destroyed.
Of course there is no independent verification. The objective is to stop terrorist attacks, not public debate.
An independent verification does not mean "public debate". If you don't have that possibility, then the system can be readily abused. Destroying the tapes effectively ended any possibility of determining the truth beyond - "trust me". And no manipulative fear of terrorist attacks would make me want to give up those checks and balances.
Actually the justice department knew as well. The CIA memo was to the justice department.
"The quotations in this part of the Justice memo were taken from an Aug. 2, 2004 letter that CIA Acting General Counsel John A. Rizzo sent to the Justice DepartmentÂ’s Office of Legal Counsel.
Manipulative fear of terrorist attacks?
Days of Terror: A Photo Gallery
And no one will ever know the truth. How convenient.
We know the truth. You would rather believe the conspiracy theorists rather than the people in the front lines actually dealing with it.
According to who? The CIA and a beleagured administration who's asses were in a sling over Abu Ghraib and torture. Nor was there uniform agreement that "all other methods failed" - in fact rather the opposite.
Uniform agreement between whom? The conspiracy theorists and the CIA operatives who were actually there? That's rather silly. The left wingers have simply manufactured a political issues for themselves.
And yes all other methods failed.
From the CIA memo to the justice department.
Before they were subjected to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.
CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles
In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,” says the Justice Department memo. “Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’ Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”
After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles
And yeah the sources for this is the CIA memo, and the CIA director. Those are the sources that count.
Do you really think it's wise to put all your belief and trust into just one source - the CIA? No way to verify? That's an awful lot of trust in an agency known to be less than honest.
That's two departments. The CIA and justice departments. And yes I trust them. This is an intelligence war. Information is what stops terrorist attacks.
The anonymours sources, and the ones, who were not involved in these cases directly, are utterly irrelevant.
In other words only the CIA is relevant, trust the CIA and what ever they say, hold them above accountability and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
What man behind the curtain? The only thing you have that contradicts them are anonymous sources.
Yanno...there is something that bothers me. Pres. Bush took a lot of heat from the lefties over this. Why was the memo disclassfied under Obama, when Bush didn't declassify it even though it vindicates him?
It seems to indicate that this memo should not have been declassified at all, and that Obama was reckless in doing so.
Also, the arch leftwing speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi was told that waterboarding was used as well, and she didn't have an objection.
Source: Aide told Pelosi waterboarding had been used - CNN.com
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A source close to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi now confirms that Pelosi was told in February 2003 by her intelligence aide, Michael Sheehy, that waterboarding was actually used on CIA detainee Abu Zubaydah.
Source says Nancy Pelosi didn't object about waterboard usage because she wasn't personally briefed about it.
This appears to contradict Pelosi's account that she was never told waterboarding actually happened, only that the administration was considering using it.
Sheehy attended a briefing in which waterboarding was discussed in February 2003, with Rep. Jane Harman, D-California, who took over Pelosi's spot as the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.
This issue has really very little to do with waterboarding, it's about the democrat method of throwing enough shit on the wall and seeing what sticks.
