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Who has the 4th best military ??

Stryder50

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Ireland has a tiny Army. No Navy and no Air force yet Irish citizens enjoy the 6th highest GDP in the World.
That may be in part because Ireland has a tiny Army. No Navy and no Air Force.
How about some documentation(proof) of your claim. Ireland didn't make the top ten on this list.

GDP Ranked by Country 2021​

...
  1. United States (GDP: 20.49 trillion)
  2. China (GDP: 13.4 trillion)
  3. Japan: (GDP: 4.97 trillion)
  4. Germany: (GDP: 4.00 trillion)
  5. United Kingdom: (GDP: 2.83 trillion)
  6. France: (GDP: 2.78 trillion)
  7. India: (GDP: 2.72 trillion)
  8. Italy: (GDP: 2.07 trillion)
  9. Brazil: (GDP: 1.87 trillion)
  10. Canada: (GDP: 1.71 trillion)
...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, Ireland is like a few other nations of the world where it lies in the shadow of neighbor(s) with larger military that will protect it anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EDIT: Per this list Ireland is #29;

List of countries by GDP (nominal)​

 
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22lcidw

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There is that, and his almost crazed attacks against almost anybody for no real reason.

The moment he tried to claim that "nobody knew what China has", I was actually laughing. China brags to the world whenever they even decide to work on a prototype. Let alone before it is even produced. Bragging the entire time it is the best ever. Only to see a final product that is so bad not even their own military wants it.

And it's not like they did not tell the entire world last month when their carrier and a few other ships went out for an exercise.

Plus, over 2,000 posts in 2 months? Yeah those are some serious troll numbers there.

I simply have no time or use for such nonsense.
You perhaps should take China more seriously. They are rapidly advancing/moving in both space and military technology. With endless growth in factories/industrial plants for people in the West fueling it.
 

Oz and the Orchestra

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How about some documentation(proof) of your claim. Ireland didn't make the top ten on this list.

GDP Ranked by Country 2021​

...
  1. United States (GDP: 20.49 trillion)
  2. China (GDP: 13.4 trillion)
  3. Japan: (GDP: 4.97 trillion)
  4. Germany: (GDP: 4.00 trillion)
  5. United Kingdom: (GDP: 2.83 trillion)
  6. France: (GDP: 2.78 trillion)
  7. India: (GDP: 2.72 trillion)
  8. Italy: (GDP: 2.07 trillion)
  9. Brazil: (GDP: 1.87 trillion)
  10. Canada: (GDP: 1.71 trillion)
...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, Ireland is like a few other nations of the world where it lies in the shadow of neighbor(s) with larger military that will protect it anyway.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EDIT: Per this list Ireland is #29;

List of countries by GDP (nominal)​

Ireland is an open economy (6th on the Index of Economic Freedom) and ranks first for high-value foreign direct investment (FDI) flows. In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 4th of 186 in the IMF table and 4th of 187 in the World Bank ranking.

BING.
 

Stann

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USA then Russia then China

Then a huge huge drop off


British have a good navy and special forces
Israel has bad azzz Air Force and special forces
French have good balance
Is Israel fourth ? Surrounded by Arab neighbors which they perceive as threats, they'd have to have a real good military just to continue to exist.
 

Stryder50

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Ireland is an open economy (6th on the Index of Economic Freedom) and ranks first for high-value foreign direct investment (FDI) flows. In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 4th of 186 in the IMF table and 4th of 187 in the World Bank ranking.

BING.
Links please.
 

Oz and the Orchestra

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Links please.
It relates to a thread I wrote last year around Autumn. In the thread, you'll find the link that the story is based on.
I can't remember what I entitled the thread so I can't bring it up. However, if you go through all my threads at that time you'll find it.
Anyway, I have seen several stories that appear to contradict the claim so I wouldn't take any as gospel. They are only as good as their source and they could be anybody. Why is it so important anyway?
 

Stryder50

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It relates to a thread I wrote last year around Autumn. In the thread, you'll find the link that the story is based on.
I can't remember what I entitled the thread so I can't bring it up. However, if you go through all my threads at that time you'll find it.
Anyway, I have seen several stories that appear to contradict the claim so I wouldn't take any as gospel. They are only as good as their source and they could be anybody. Why is it so important anyway?
1) It's a courtesy to others whom may want to examine the sources further.
2) It's validation and proof you didn't fabricate or are attempted to blow smoke up the backside.
3) Years of experience on other forums dealing with history and science, etc., I have acquired their requirement that claims and data be documented.

It's only important if you want me and others to believe what you say is true and accurate and not consider it all made up rubbish and bollocks.
 

Mushroom

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You perhaps should take China more seriously. They are rapidly advancing/moving in both space and military technology. With endless growth in factories/industrial plants for people in the West fueling it.

China is largely a "paper tiger". And they are "advancing" nowhere near as fast as most people seem to think. In fact, they are only just now reaching close to what the US was doing half a century ago.

Militarily, they are barely a threat to any nation they do not share a border with. They have almost no force projection capability. Their "People's Liberation Army Navy" is little more than a slightly upgunned Coast Guard. They have almost never conducted fleet operations, and barely even leave their own national waters for more than a week or two at a time then almost immediately zip right back into port.

To be honest, I take the military of India far more seriously than I do that of China.

And no, that is not a joke at all. India has a history of conducting fleet operations lasting for months at a time, with a composition to that of a US Carrier group. And they have about 10 times the airlift capability than that of China. India has fought actual wars until fairly recently with Pakistan. Meanwhile China has really only had a single brief skirmish with Vietnam about 40 years ago. And that was no more difficult for them than walking up to a spoiled 10 year old and spanking their bottom a few times.

Want to know when I will start to take China seriously? When they start to show they actually have the capability to use that equipment they keep saying that they have. Sure they have SSBNs, but they spend 99% of the time tied up at the dock and never appear to leave. They have some decent destroyers and a "carrier". But conduct almost no fleet operations, just send them out on occasion to try and frighten their neighbors.

Most recently, I believe it was 5 of their ships that cruised around for about 2 weeks, then returned to port. They bragged how powerful they were, most of the world just laughed. The US and even India can keep their fleet operating as a fleet for months at a time, completely supplying it by sea. China has almost no UNREP capability, and has conducted almost no fleet exercises ever other than brief dog and pony shows just off their own coast.

Want me to take them seriously? Then let me know when their airlift capability rises to above that of a third world African dictatorship. Let us see their "might fleet" (even without their "carrier") do a cruise like the US and Soviets did half a century ago. Send a fleet of say 6 to 10 ships out across the Pacific to conduct exercises somewhere off the coast of Hawaii, and maybe even some port calls. Spend say 4 months at sea, and keep that fleet supplied the entire time via sealift.

Because until they start to do things like that, they will remain a joke. They have the toys, but have absolutely no idea how to use them.
 

Mushroom

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What about Russia ??

Russia like the Soviets still does fleet operations, and they frequently still operate as squadrons and flotillas. And put to sea all the time. And every few months there are reports of Russian ships and subs just off shore all over the US.

I can't even remember the last time a Chinese military vessel was spotted off the coast of Hawaii or California.
 

Mushroom

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Mushroom
Very informative

This should not be much of a secret. It even made major news among some people not all that long ago.

A Russian naval and air exercise off Hawaii that Moscow said was its largest drills in the Pacific since the end of the Cold War and involved surface ships, anti-submarine aircraft and long-range bombers, has ended, but a Russian spy ship remains in the Hawaii operating area, according to a variety of sources.

The Russian government put out a release announcing the end of the drills that were generally several hundred miles west of Hawaii.

“The Russian vessels are transiting west and are out of the Hawaii Operation Area,” said Navy Capt. Mike Kafka, a spokesman for U.S. Indo-Pacific Command at Camp H.M. Smith. “As part of our normal daily operations, we continue to track all vessels in the Indo-Pacific area of operations through maritime patrol aircraft, surface ship and joint capabilities.”

Kafka said the Russian vessels operated in international waters throughout the exercise.

“At the closest point, some ships operated approximately 20 to 30 nautical miles (23 to 34 statute miles) off the coast of Hawaii,” he said. “We closely tracked all vessels.”


Over the last several years, Russia has been increasing their military presence just outside of US territorial waters and air space. And I actually chuckle as many are literally loosing their minds, but to me it is no different than what happened almost daily 4 decades ago.

But notice, China does none of that. Their subs have barely left their ports in decades, not even their Boomers, let alone their Fast Attack boats. Now if China ever starts to show that they are starting to project their force and build up the air assets to do so, I might start to at least pay attention. But their lack of any of that causes me to largely ignore them. About as important on the world stage as the armed forces of say Surinam, or Belize.
 

Oz and the Orchestra

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1) It's a courtesy to others whom may want to examine the sources further.
2) It's validation and proof you didn't fabricate or are attempted to blow smoke up the backside.
3) Years of experience on other forums dealing with history and science, etc., I have acquired their requirement that claims and data be documented.

It's only important if you want me and others to believe what you say is true and accurate and not consider it all made up rubbish and bollocks.


Oz and the Orchestra

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Top 10 Richest Countries in the World
azsite April 26, 2020

4. Brunei: GDP per Capita: $ 76,740
The country has a population of about 400,000 people. Natural gas & crude oil production account for about 90% of its GDP.
3. Singapore: GDP per Capita: $ 90,530
The Republic of Singapore is an island city-state in Southeast Asia. It is the second-largest foreign investor in India. This country has the world’s highest percentage of millionaires.
2. Luxembourg: GDP per Capita: $109,190
Luxembourg is located in the western part of Europe and shares its border with Belgium, Germany and France. Luxembourg has a stable and high-income market economy features moderate growth.
1. Qatar: GDP per Capita: $124,930
Qatar is the richest country in the world. It has a total GDP of approximately $124,930 per person. The economy of this small middle eastern country is based on the export of crude oil. The capital of Qatar is Doha.
Country (Rank)GDP per capita ($)
10. Hong Kong63, 350
9. UAE69, 900
8. Kuwait71,930
7. Norway72,190
6. Ireland75,790
5. Brunei Darussalam77,700
4. Singapore93,680
3. Luxembourg112,710
2. Macao125,170
1. Qatar129,360

az.socialmomus.com
Quite amazing, land of my birth was pretty poverty stricken when I was born, which forced my parents to leave.
Must have a lot to do with membership of the EU.
So much for Brexit ridden Britain!

Satisfied?
 

Stryder50

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[/HEADING][/HEADING]
[HEADING=3][HEADING=3]Oz and the Orchestra

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Top 10 Richest Countries in the World
azsite April 26, 2020

4. Brunei: GDP per Capita: $ 76,740
The country has a population of about 400,000 people. Natural gas & crude oil production account for about 90% of its GDP.
3. Singapore: GDP per Capita: $ 90,530
The Republic of Singapore is an island city-state in Southeast Asia. It is the second-largest foreign investor in India. This country has the world’s highest percentage of millionaires.
2. Luxembourg: GDP per Capita: $109,190
Luxembourg is located in the western part of Europe and shares its border with Belgium, Germany and France. Luxembourg has a stable and high-income market economy features moderate growth.
1. Qatar: GDP per Capita: $124,930
Qatar is the richest country in the world. It has a total GDP of approximately $124,930 per person. The economy of this small middle eastern country is based on the export of crude oil. The capital of Qatar is Doha.
Country (Rank)GDP per capita ($)
10. Hong Kong63, 350
9. UAE69, 900
8. Kuwait71,930
7. Norway72,190
6. Ireland75,790
5. Brunei Darussalam77,700
4. Singapore93,680
3. Luxembourg112,710
2. Macao125,170
1. Qatar129,360

az.socialmomus.com
Quite amazing, land of my birth was pretty poverty stricken when I was born, which forced my parents to leave.
Must have a lot to do with membership of the EU.
So much for Brexit ridden Britain!

Satisfied?
Slightly Yes, more largely NO ~ not!
1) At least you've documented a source for your distorted claim, admittedly one that is questionable on the credibility scales.
2) In your post #3 of this thread you stated "GDP", not "GDP per capita" which this questionable link shows. So are you moving the goalposts , unable to clearly state what you want to say, engaging in distortion and disingenuous commentary, or plain don't know what you are talking about?

With that in mind, a basic definition for your benefit and that of others here;
GDP = Gross Domestic Product;
Gross domestic product (GDP) is a monetary measure of the market value of all the final goods and services produced in a specific time period.

Once again, "per capita income" is not the same thing as Gross(total) Domestic Product.
If you fail to grasp these concepts and their fundamental differences, you may need to repeat your basic education.

Furthermore, you need to look at this bit of data, which shows National debt for Ireland is almost equal to that nation's GDP and the total of Debt is over 900% of GDP !!!
Public Debt to GDP Ratio = 99.85%
External Debt to GDP Ratio = 809.64%
Total National Debt to GDP Ratio of = 909.49%


Which makes Ireland one of the most in-debt and economically mis-managed nations on this planet!

Ireland is living well off the future debt burden to be borne by the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. of that nation. Ireland is doing well at the expense of it's future and it's future population which will pay the price of current excess and personal greed (yes folks, greed comes in all sizes), especially when Ireland goes banckrupt and reality places it as one of the poorest nations on the planet.

I wouldn't be boasting about about false economics and data chicanery running my nation into the poor house if I was in your shoes. In fact, I'd say it's time for some serious belt-tigthening and a bit of fiscal responsibility, rather than a future that promises economic slavery for the nation.
 

Oz and the Orchestra

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Slightly Yes, more largely NO ~ not!
1) At least you've documented a source for your distorted claim, admittedly one that is questionable on the credibility scales.
2) In your post #3 of this thread you stated "GDP", not "GDP per capita" which this questionable link shows. So are you moving the goalposts , unable to clearly state what you want to say, engaging in distortion and disingenuous commentary, or plain don't know what you are talking about?

With that in mind, a basic definition for your benefit and that of others here;
GDP = Gross Domestic Product;
Gross domestic product (GDP) is a monetary measure of the market value of all the final goods and services produced in a specific time period.

Once again, "per capita income" is not the same thing as Gross(total) Domestic Product.
If you fail to grasp these concepts and their fundamental differences, you may need to repeat your basic education.

Furthermore, you need to look at this bit of data, which shows National debt for Ireland is almost equal to that nation's GDP and the total of Debt is over 900% of GDP !!!
Public Debt to GDP Ratio = 99.85%
External Debt to GDP Ratio = 809.64%
Total National Debt to GDP Ratio of = 909.49%


Which makes Ireland one of the most in-debt and economically mis-managed nations on this planet!

Ireland is living well off the future debt burden to be borne by the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. of that nation. Ireland is doing well at the expense of it's future and it's future population which will pay the price of current excess and personal greed (yes folks, greed comes in all sizes), especially when Ireland goes banckrupt and reality places it as one of the poorest nations on the planet.

I wouldn't be boasting about about false economics and data chicanery running my nation into the poor house if I was in your shoes. In fact, I'd say it's time for some serious belt-tigthening and a bit of fiscal responsibility, rather than a future that promises economic slavery for the nation.
"Ireland is living well off the future debt burden to be borne by the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. of that nation. Ireland is doing well at the expense of it's future and it's future population"

Ha ha ha, and who exactly isn't?

USA National Debt $28 Trillion.

The UK where I happen to live £4.8 Trillion (latest projection.)

As for the rest of your criticisms, they are just meaningless semantics.
 

DudleySmith

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That only looks at numbers. Quality wise we would be better than the numbers. For instance, Russia comes in first in tanks but our fewer tanks are better.

It also doesn't consider the ability to do combined arms, which the US excels at.

Most of those Russian tanks are scrap iron; Germany has about the same size active armor force they can field, and a higher quality as well, but maybe not in training time, though, which is just as critical.

As for rankings, I think India is at least the equal of Red China, and a dark horse that is under rated re both Russia and Red China; what they lack in equipment and tech they make up for in troop quality in some of their main units, and they are no slouches when it comes to combat engineer units. they are presently building up their Navy.
 
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Stryder50

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"Ireland is living well off the future debt burden to be borne by the children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc. of that nation. Ireland is doing well at the expense of it's future and it's future population"

Ha ha ha, and who exactly isn't?

USA National Debt $28 Trillion.

The UK where I happen to live £4.8 Trillion (latest projection.)

As for the rest of your criticisms, they are just meaningless semantics.
Still, the USA is at @240% ratios versus Ireland's @910% ratios so the scale of difference is nearly four to one.

CYA all you want, either you display equal "meaningless semantics" (meaning you don't understand, really) yourself, or you haven't a clue what is being discussed on economics.
 

Oz and the Orchestra

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Still, the USA is at @240% ratios versus Ireland's @910% ratios so the scale of difference is nearly four to one.

CYA all you want, either you display equal "meaningless semantics" (meaning you don't understand, really) yourself, or you haven't a clue what is being discussed on economics.
Now, who is moving the goalposts?
What has the fact that the USA is at X times the ratio of Ireland got to do with the fact you have sold out your children & grandchildren future to the tune of $28 Trillion, as you accused Ireland of doing?

The only point I made in my original thread, was that Ireland was a very poor country until she joined the EU.
I visited a few years ago and could see the massive difference compared with 50 odd years before when I visited as a teenager..
It wasn't an economics thread, but an anti-Brexit thread, and even then I was a bit skeptical as to how all the different anomalies involved can be quantified as to an accurate reading. As soon as they are published they are out of date no matter how accurate.

I'm a Marxist and if all countries want to get rid of their annual deficits and gradually bring down their suicidal national debts they need to start taxing the stock markets. Otherwise, China will end up the most powerful nation both militarily and economically simply by default. That would be ironic for the world's one remaining communist superpower.
 

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