Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[toastman]

Once again, you are the only one ducking anything. Rocco has done nothing but destroy everyone of your ridiculous posts. Honestly Tinmore, what are you getting by spreading lies and Palestinian propaganda? Nothing you say is even remotely true and to make matters worse for yourself, you have not proven A SINGLE one of your claims.
I mean, don’t you get tired of having EVERY SINGLE one of your lies refuted???

 

[toastman]

Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."

Mandates had no territory.

Why is it that I can easily find information on the creation of every country in the world with just a few buttons, but nothing on Palestine?

 

[Hollie]

There are some real comedians in the territories occupied by the Arabs-Moslems calling themselves “Pal’istanians”. There was a one-liner about Abbas holding elections.

17th year of a four-year term; Will Abbas hold Palestinian elections?

Originally elected for a four year term meant to end in 2009, the Palestinian President faces pressure to hold elections.

m.jpost.com

Palestinians on Saturday marked the 16th anniversary of the second presidential election, which saw Mahmoud Abbas win 62.52% of the vote and become the second Palestinian Authority president after Yasser Arafat.

Abbas, now 85, was elected for a four-year term, which expired in 2009. Since then, the Palestinians have not been able to hold another presidential election, mainly due to the split between the West Bank and the Gaza Strip resulting from the dispute between Abbas’s Fatah faction and Hamas.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Because it was NOT a new "state" but rather a "mandated territory."

Mandates had no territory.

Neither does Palestine, eh?

Another unsubstantiated Israeli talking point.

Tick tock.

The land for a future Palestine continues to shrink.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You didn't ask a question. And my ost directly responds to the nonsense about the implications the Armistice Agreements make.

Of course all of that ducks my post.

(COMMENT)

The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State. The Armistice played NO PART in the decision to include it. My post pin-pointed why the Armistice simply did not matter.

It is the language and intent of the Treaties that makes all the difference.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.

The partition plan did not happen. It doesn't matter.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.

The partition plan did not happen. It doesn't matter.

Yeah, the Arabs really fucked that up, didn't they?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Oh the Partition Plan was executed, but the Arab League interfered with the process.

The Negev was almost entirely part of the original partition area being allowed for the Jewish State.

The partition plan did not happen. It doesn't matter.

(COMMENT)

The implementation of the Plan did not require the participation of the Arab Palestinian Party. Further, the implementation was made all the more real when the UN Department of Public Information Press and Publications Bureau made available the official press release (PAL/169 17 May 1948) that said in part:

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."​

Further, the Resolution of 29 November 1947 stated:

F. ADMISSION TO MEMBERSHIP IN THE UNITED NATIONS​

When the independence of either the Arab or the Jewish State as envisaged in this plan has become effective and the declaration and undertaking, as envisaged in this plan, have been signed by either of them, sympathetic consideration should be given to its application for admission to membership in the United Nations in accordance with Article 4 of the Charter of the United Nations.
SOURCE: A/RES/181 (II)

It is customary in matters such as this, that when one party or the other (in this case "either" the Arab or Jewish party) has a grievance, that an appeal or adjudication alternative be afforded air such a grievance. Chapter 4(2), "Any dispute relating to the application or the interpretation of this declaration shall be referred, at the request of either party, to the International Court of Justice, unless the parties agree to another mode of settlement." As is usual with the Arab Palestinian, instead of taking the option of the dispute resolution process, they immediately jump to Armed Conflict.

I've heard you repeat this claim that the recommendation in A/RES/181 (II) had not been executed. Well, I'm here to tell you that it has. There is documentation from official outlets that is has been executed, but no official source outlets denying the UN Palestine Commission stance. And you will notice that almost every single important resolution on the "Question of Palestine" cites A/RES/181 (II) as a reference - openly demonstrates that it still has some relevance.

It is more likely the case that the pro-Arab Palestinians find it important and somewhat necessary to discredit this view.

The odd thing is, that if the Arab Palestinians had accepted the peace and the Allocated Partition portion in the Plan, there would probably be no doubt that the Arab Palestinians would have a state today and sovereign control over a vast majority of the allocation if not all. BUT, they chose conflict. And there is no question as to how well that decision worked out for them.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The implementation of the Plan did not require the participation of the Arab Palestinian Party.

Britain and the Security Council said it did.

 

[P F Tinmore]

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

 

[Hollie]

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

You’re getting rather frantic. Try supporting your claims as opposed to the usual “... because I say“ routines.

 

[P F Tinmore]

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

You’re getting rather frantic. Try supporting your claims as opposed to the usual “... because I say“ routines.

Do you know the articles in Resolution 181?

 

[Hollie]

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

You’re getting rather frantic. Try supporting your claims as opposed to the usual “... because I say“ routines.

Do you know the articles in Resolution 181?

Yes.

Do you know the articles in 181?

What other history do you want to rewrite because the Arabs-Moslems failed so often at guiding events that shaped their future.

Take responsibility for your failures.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Oh, that is BS and you know it.

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

(COMMENT)

First off, A/RES/181 (II) was a recommendation and not a mandate. So, your question is purely a quandary. Further, the Arab Higher Committee totally rejected the recommendation, so they cannot come back after the fact and try some tired-ass attempt at enforcement.

The establishment of self-governing institutions:
• Finance and Banking system
• Postal and telecommunications system

Tasks Confronting Committee in the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly

• a. The Commission in this preliminary stage of its work has undertaken a thorough and detailed examination of the provisions of the General Assembly’s resolution, with particular reference to its implications and the tasks involved in implementing its recommendations. The Commission realizes the enormity of the responsibility entrusted to it and harbors no illusions concerning the formidable obstacles it must surmount (including anticipated Arab resistance).
  b. Among the major tasks involved in giving effect to the Assembly’s recommendations are the following:
  
  • (i) arranging for the progressive transfer of administrative authority from the Mandatory Power to the Commission and the establishment of Provisional Councils of Government;
    (ii) supervision of the functioning of the Provisional Councils of Government, including the maintenance of pubic order in the transitional period following the termination of the Mandate;
    (iii) delimitation of frontiers of the Arab and Jewish States and the City of Jerusalem;
    (iv) exercise of political and military control over the erased militia in each of the projected States, including selection of the high command;
    (v) the preparatory work in connection with the establishment of the Economic Union, including the creation of the Preparatory Economic Commission and the maintenance of essential economic services in the transitional period;
    (vi) negotiations on the allocation and distribution of assets;
    (vii) maintenance of administration and essential public services following the termination of the Mandate;
    (viii) preparation for the application of the United Nations Statute to the City of Jerusalem; and
    (ix) protection of Holy Places.

In the First Monthly Report to the Security Council, the key milestones were listed and eventually completed by the timeline established.

General Financial Position and Statement of Assets and Liabilities including the hand-off of Bearer Bonds.

By the end of March

	Future government of Palestine/UN Palestine Commission - Food supply in Palestine, Consideration of press dispatches, Health services, Police force for Jerusalem, Oil pipeline concession, Various ommunications with UK - Summary record	1948/03/23
		03/23/1948​		A/AC.21/P/35	UN Palestine Commission - Daily News Summary

The orderly transfer of the duties and responsibilities of the Palestine Currency Board.

And it goes on and on. And some time ago, when you said I danced around the subject, I forwarded you the link to the summary of accomplishments and the Checklist of certain tasks incident to the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly on Palestine. Working paper prepared by the Secretariat, 9 January. Lists certain tasks under various headings, such as Administration and Legal, Economic and, Financial, etc., and records significant dates.

Now, I will grant you that many of the accomplishments of the UN Palestine Commission from 9 January to 17 May 1948 were setback, significantly altered, or undermined as a result of the act of aggression and armed conflict by the Arab League Forces on 15 May 1948.

The key however is the fact that I don't think you are the least bit qualified in challenging the criteria used in the deliberations that lead to the ultimate outcome of A/RES/273 (III) of 11 May 1949 Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations. Although Admission to the UN is not in itself a requirement for statehood, it does recognize Israel as a "peace-loving State." This is an entirely different level above that accorded to either the Gaza Government or the Ramallah Government:

Decides to accord to Palestine non-member observer State status in the United Nations, without prejudice to the acquired rights, privileges and role of the Palestine Liberation Organization in the United Nations as the representative of the Palestinian people, in accordance with the relevant resolutions and practice;
Source: {LINK} Status of Palestine A/RES/67/19 4 December 2012.

Israel did all the hard work in putting together a functional government with all the necessary self-governing institutions to make independence a reality. This is an accomplishment that the Arab Palestinians have not been able to do in more than seven decades. The Arab Palestinians could not do it in 1948 any more than they can do it today.

And don't give out that crap the poor and downtrodden Arab Palestinians were being held back by the Israelis. The Security Barriers were not always there, the border fencing was not always there. And the Israelis were NOT the first middle eastern power to occupy the disputed territories.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

Book Review: Not in Kansas Anymore: Academic Freedom in Palestinian Universities

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

resolution 181 security coulcil

Tasks Confronting Committee in the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly

Perhaps you did not understand my post. What parts of resolution were implemented?

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

Chapter 3

Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations
​

1. Citizenship. Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights.

This means that all Palestinians who normally live in the territory that becomes the Jewish state shall become citizens of that state with full civil and political rights.

When is that going to happen?

 

[Hollie]

Pals behaving like pals.


PA incitement led to recent murder of Israeli woman
Itamar Marcus | Jan 10, 2021

PA incitement led to recent murder of Israeli woman | PMW Analysis

PA spread libel that terrorist prisoner Kamal Abu Wa’er died because of Israel's “premeditated deliberate medical neglect”

palwatch.org

• Murderer explained he was “influenced” to murder Esther Horgan “by the death of a security prisoner he knew”
• PA spread libel that terrorist prisoner Kamal Abu Wa’er died because of Israel's “premeditated deliberate medical neglect”
• PA’s PM Shtayyeh blamed Israel, claiming the cause of death of the terrorist prisoner was “deliberate medical neglect”
• Fatah added: “Not medical neglect, but rather medical murder”
• Director of PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr accused Israel “of murdering prisoner Abu Wa’er by abandoning him as prey to cancer… the medical crime… was committed premeditatedly by the [Israeli] Prison Service.”

The Palestinian terrorist who brutally murdered an Israeli mother of six, Esther Horgan, last month, told Israeli interrogators that he “decided to carry out a terrorist attack after he was influenced – inter alia – by the death of a security prisoner he knew, Kamal Abu Wa’er,” who died in prison from cancer. [Israel Security Services, Israeli Government Press Office, Jan. 4, 2021].

 

[Hollie]

When is that going to happen?

At the next Pally elections?

 

[P F Tinmore]

When is that going to happen?

At the next Pally elections?

Has nothing to do with Palestinian elections.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Oh, that is BS as well.

Tasks Confronting Committee in the implementation of the Resolution of the General Assembly

Perhaps you did not understand my post. What parts of resolution were implemented?

And when I ask you what parts were implemented...

You duck!

Chapter 3

Citizenship, international conventions and financial obligations​

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians rejected the acceptance of their part of the partition. If they had accepted they would have had the citizenship to the state they assumed independence through self-determination.

Israel was not a party to any international conventions. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) was not a binding obligation or international convention, never went into force as law, and was past AFTER Israel became a State. In fact, with the exception of the Hague Regulation, none of the Universal Human Rights Instruments went into force until 1950. Furthermore, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR) did not go into force until 1976.

◈ Israel assumed all financial obligations pasted-on from the Government of Palestine. ​

​

◈ Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship at the time of the termination of the Mandate and Independence of Israel.​

​

◈ Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, becoming citizens and residents of Israel, were not granted full civil and political rights. ​

So I ask (again) On 15 May 1948, what were the recognized "full civil and political rights," the Arab Palestinians claimed the citizens of the new State of Israel were denied?

Your clear implication is that Israel did not meet these recommendations on citizenship and full political and civil rights. So I ask you to clarify, Find or identify for me the Arabs and Jews who, were "citizens" of the new state that did not get their rights by law.

Most Respectfully,
R