Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OPENING: I assume you mean a "Border Agreement."


.(COMMENT)

Whatever you mean by the term "Palestine."

◈ It must have been a "state" at the time other treaties were made. ​

........................ .............OR​

◈ There must have been a case of self-determination on the part of the people of the State.​

The attempt to use the territory over which the Mandate applied is not (and was never intended to be) an international boundary for a "state." Further attempts to use the demarcations associated with the 1949 Armistice Agreements is (once again) never intended to be an International Boundary agreement. The International Boundary Agreement associated with West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip can be found in:

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace (1979) •​

​

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​

In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from the Gaza Strip and left it to its Right of Self-Determination. We can all see today the complexion of Arab Palestinian Rule.

As for the West Bank and Jerusalem, the Arab Palestinians never liberated the territory (peacefully). The liberation was when the Israeli Forces acquired the territory from the Jordanians in 1967 and when the Jordanians announce their termination over any territory west of the Jordan River. In 1995, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) agreed to express consent to be bound by the Oslo Accords.

In general, the Arab Palestinians protest in armed conflict because they in what they consider injurious treatment, and as being deprived of self-determination and independence (or some other injustice). The Arab Palestinian claim to be prevented from establishing their sovereignty over the place and time, the people of Palestine want to fashion their national identity. That the Treaty of Lausanne established their nation. Well, that is simply not accurate (a mistake of fact). Why, because by 1923 the Arab Palestinians had already declined the "third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government." And all through the Mandate period over the territory, the British Administration proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency” → which the Arab Palestinian consistently declined. Then, after the Jewish Agency facilitated the National Council for the Jewish State to establish a provisional Jewish Government over the territory recommended by the UN General Assembly, again rejected the offer of the territory recommended for the new Arab State. And at that point, the Arab League tried to use force but only managed to secure a part of the territory with they promptly secured for themselves.

The Arab Palestinians did not accept one single avenue of approach to set themselves on course for independence and sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

In conformity with the UN Charter and in order to achieve the kind of stability and finality in international boundary disputes must be settled peacefully.

There is no boundary dispute. None of Palestine's neighbors have disputed their boundaries.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The attempt to use the territory over which the Mandate applied is not (and was never intended to be) an international boundary for a "state."

Links?

 

[Hollie]

There is no boundary dispute. None of Palestine's neighbors have disputed their boundaries.

What boundaries are shared with a "country of Pal'istan"?

Links?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

There is no boundary dispute. None of Palestine's neighbors have disputed their boundaries.

(SHORT NOTE)

I'm very very glad to see you agree.

The Links I gave you In Post #20994 have the approval of all the adjacent Arab States. That is, with the possible exception to the Golan Heights. But even they recognize that they really did not extend their sovereignty over that territory. They have not really made much of a fuss over it.

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •​

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​

◈ Golan Heights Law •​

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •​

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​

◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Clarification
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,


(SHORT NOTE)

I'm very very glad to see you agree.

The Links I gave you In Post #20994 have the approval of all the adjacent Arab States. That is, with the possible exception to the Golan Heights. But even they recognize that they really did not extend their sovereignty over that territory. They have not really made much of a fuss over it.

◈ Israeli-Palestinian Interim Agreement Oslo II (1995) Map 6 •​

◈ Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel •​

◈ Golan Heights Law •​

◈ Egypt and Israel Treaty of Peace w/MAP (1979) •​

◈ Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty (1994) •​

◈ Letter dated 12 June 2000 from the Permanent Representative of Lebanon •​

Most Respectfully,
R

2. Israel will withdraw all its armed forces and civilians from the Sinai behind the international boundary between Egypt and mandated Palestine, as provided in the annexed protocol (Annex I), and Egypt will resume the exercise of its full sovereignty over the Sinai.

The mandate was irrelevant to Palestine's international boundary. The mandate was gone for years. Why was it even mentioned?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Demarcation Line
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The mandate was irrelevant to Palestine's international boundary. The mandate was gone for years. Why was it even mentioned?

(COMMENT)

I take it you do not understand how a Surveyor establishes boundary lines. Most of the time, the Surveyor stars with a Monument (A permanently placed survey marker such as a stone shaft sunk into the ground.). I happen to live two blocks from the original National Road (AKA US Route 40). If you pay close attention You will find this one of these markers. I live about 500 yards from one.

When the original borders were surveyed. the put monuments such as these markers periodically along the border. If you look at a map of the Middle East North Africa, you will see there are a lot of straight-line segments. That is because the British and the French loved to simplify these things and establish a lot of straight-line boundaries (Boundary - a line that marks the limits of an area; a dividing line.) or boundaries that follow a river.

When the Allied Powers said "within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;" they were talking about these surveys. You will notice the frontier boundary between Egypt and Israel → Rafah-to-Princess Beach → there are many straight-line segments. That boundary has served many purposes in its time and is still in use today. It is and will be used again and again as a baseline ("A line between two points on the earth's surface and the direction and distance between them"). That line will be used for many decades to come.

Diplomats and politicians use the name and noun nomenclature to these "Lines of Possession and Improvements along the Boundaries" to make it more palatable to a given audience. While the political and diplomatic name be altered for the name of the line, it does not change (for the most part).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

The mandate was irrelevant to Palestine's international boundary. The mandate was gone for years. Why was it even mentioned?

Rights gained under the mandate don't expire,
they go ad infinitum, it's become international law.

Therefore no Arab sovereignty is legal within those boundaries.

 

[Sixties Fan]

An inveterate rejector of Israel, Erakat reiterated the “dominant Palestinian political and intellectual thinking between 1968 and 1988 that understood Zionist settler colonialism as an eliminatory project that could not be stemmed by partition.”

“Coexistence necessitates decolonization and the dismantlement of Zionist governance in the same way that South Africa and Namibia had successfully dismantled apartheid,” she added. A map of Israel and its neighborhood in her presentation appeared to her as a “map of Palestine,” and she fumed that Israel was “forced upon” Arabs, “in the words of Malcolm X, to create a wedge between the African and the Asian continents.”

The revised 1968 PLO National Charter formed the basis for Erakat’s destructive vision of a “single democratic state” of “all people, irrespective of religion and nationality,” replacing Israel. The Palestine Authority’s deeply Islamist, jihadist character demonstrates that any such Palestinian state would expel its Jewish population. This new “Palestine” would fulfill her call for a “right of return” for millions of descendants of Arab refugees from Israel’s 1948 independence war, upon whom she retroactively projected Palestinian “national aspirations of their own for self-determination.”

(full article online)

Noura Erakat’s morgue of Palestinian resisters - JNS.org

Her pop Marxist dreams of a revolution overthrowing Israel’s “settler-colony” might thrill woke academic audiences in America, but it also can fuel more anarchy.

www.jns.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[P F Tinmore]

An inveterate rejector of Israel, Erakat reiterated the “dominant Palestinian political and intellectual thinking between 1968 and 1988 that understood Zionist settler colonialism as an eliminatory project that could not be stemmed by partition.”

“Coexistence necessitates decolonization and the dismantlement of Zionist governance in the same way that South Africa and Namibia had successfully dismantled apartheid,” she added. A map of Israel and its neighborhood in her presentation appeared to her as a “map of Palestine,” and she fumed that Israel was “forced upon” Arabs, “in the words of Malcolm X, to create a wedge between the African and the Asian continents.”

The revised 1968 PLO National Charter formed the basis for Erakat’s destructive vision of a “single democratic state” of “all people, irrespective of religion and nationality,” replacing Israel. The Palestine Authority’s deeply Islamist, jihadist character demonstrates that any such Palestinian state would expel its Jewish population. This new “Palestine” would fulfill her call for a “right of return” for millions of descendants of Arab refugees from Israel’s 1948 independence war, upon whom she retroactively projected Palestinian “national aspirations of their own for self-determination.”

(full article online)

Noura Erakat’s morgue of Palestinian resisters - JNS.org

Her pop Marxist dreams of a revolution overthrowing Israel’s “settler-colony” might thrill woke academic audiences in America, but it also can fuel more anarchy.

www.jns.org

Excellent video. Thanks for the link.

We Broke a Dam: The Palestinian Intifada of Unity by Noura Erakat

Noura Erakat | We Broke a Dam: The Palestinian Intifada of Unity | October 10, 2021 | University of Toledo- McQuade Law Auditorium Run Time: 57:00

www.knowledgestream.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

An example of how serious the financial situation is: Gas stations in the West Bank city of Bethlehem have refused to service PA cars, including security vehicles, because the government hasn’t paid its bills.

[T]he lack of progress on the negotiations track with Israel has had a major impact on the PA’s standing locally, regionally and internationally.

Eighty-three percent of Palestinians believe there is corruption in PA institutions, according to a recent poll by the Ramallah-based Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR).

According to the London-based, pan-Arab Al-Araby Al-Jadeed newspaper, during a meeting with Palestinian leadership in Ramallah last week, Abbas became furious at the Biden administration, describing US officials as “liars for not keeping the promises they made to us.”

Those promises include reopening the Palestine Liberation Organization office in Washington, providing financial support to the PA, and reopening the US consulate in East Jerusalem.

The Palestinians were counting on renewed US support, politically and financially, that would encourage wealthy Arab states to restore their financial support. However, according to the same unnamed source, there is “a clear American truancy about directly returning financial support to the PA, especially as the United States accuses the PA of corruption.”

“This has affected the Gulf’s response to the requests from the PA,” the source said.

Yet even though this has been in the making for a long time, the Palestinian Authority hasn't changed.

It has not tackled corruption. It still refuses to talk to Israel. It remains irredeemably antisemitic. It still publicly supports terrorists, paying them salaries and treating them like heroes. It refuses elections. It signs international agreements with no intention of actually following them. It imprisons people whose opinions it doesn't like. It is filled with political cronyism. Above all, it never, ever takes responsibility for its problems.

Instead of looking at its own shortcomings, the PA still takes every opportunity to blame Israel. Even this week, prime minister Shtayyeh spoke at the UN Climate Change conference and claimed that Israel was destroying the environment while the Palestinian Authority was doing wonderful things to save the world.


(full article online)

The Palestinian Authority is losing support from all its previous donors - but Abbas never considers that he is doing anything wrong

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Hollie]

Celebrating an anniversary of the Balfour Declaration seemed to be an irritation to the Abbas mini-caliphate.

Too bad. It could have been an opportunity for Arabs-Moslems to improve themselves.

No peace until Israel destroyed! - The PA on the 104th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration | PMW Analysis

Fatah: “The Balfour Promise – a promise from one who has no ownership to one who has no right. Lest we forget!!”

www.palwatch.org

Palestinian Media Watch

No peace until Israel destroyed! - The PA on the 104th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration

Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Nov 2, 2021

Fatah: “The Balfour Promise – a promise from one who has no ownership to one who has no right. Lest we forget!!”

In anticipation of today's 104th anniversary of the Balfour Declaration, the Palestinian Authority is again confirming its most basic stance: There will be no peace until Israel is destroyed.

Describing the Balfour Declaration as “the most despicable global colonialist plan in history,” a regular columnist in the PA official daily added:

“Today, after 104 years, the world is still incapable of correcting this historical mistake and this severe injustice by putting an end to the colonialist Zionist project… After 104 years the conflict is still continuing, and it will not stop until this promise and its consequences are canceled.”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 28, 2021]

In other words, until the “Zionist project” (i.e., Israel) is “cancelled,” the Palestinian conflict against Israel will continue.

Fatah echoed, this calling for the end of Israel:

Posted text: “104 years since #The_wretched_Balfour_Promise (i.e., Declaration)

The Balfour Promise will remain a living headline for our tragedy that will not end, except with the end of the occupation state – the racist apartheid state”

[Facebook page of the Fatah Movement – Nablus Branch, Nov. 1, 2021]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Hollie]

From airline hijackings to international acts of Islamic terrorism to bombings, car rammings, welfare fraud, shootings.... and on it goes.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel’s combined security forces were successful in apprehending an Arab terrorist who committed arson attacks against Jewish targets in the city of Ramla in September, including the burning of holiday sukkahs.

The Shin Bet security service stated Monday that its joint investigation with the police led to the arrest on October 12 of the terrorist Suleiman Kasab, 29, a resident of Khan Yunis in the southern Gaza Strip, who was in Israel illegally.

Suleiman entered Israel in January 2020 with a humanitarian permit as an escort for his mother, who was being treated in Judea and Samaria for a serious illness. After chis mother’s treatment was done, Suleiman took advantage of the permit and remained in Israel illegally.

(full article online)

Palestinian Terrorist Arrested for Sparking Fires in Israel, Planning Attacks | United with Israel

The Gaza resident entered Israel in January 2020 with a humanitarian permit as an escort for his mother, who was being treated in Judea and Samaria for a serious illness.

unitedwithisrael.org

 

[Hollie]

And yet, for some reason unknown to me, the international community continues to feed the beast.

Whitewashing PA terror promotion in the UN Security Council | PMW Analysis

In 2018, 2019, and 2020, the PA cumulatively spent no less than 1.85 billion shekels on salaries and allowances to terrorists and their families

palwatch.org

Whitewashing PA terror promotion in the UN Security Council​

Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Nov 3, 2021
In his quarterly update to the United Nations Security Council (UNSC) regarding the implementation of infamous UNSC resolution 2334, the United Nations Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process (UNSCO) Tor Wennesland went out of his way to distort reality, whitewash the Palestinian Authority’s multi-million dollar terror promoting “Pay-for-Slay” policy and ignore PA incitement to violence and terror. In doing so, the UN once again proved its bias against Israel and its acceptance of Palestinian terror targeting Jews.
During his update, Wennesland gave a general overview of every potential - real or alleged - breach of UNSC 2334 allegedly committed by Israel or Jewish Israelis (referred to by Wennesland collectively as “settlers”). However, when it came to the active participation of the PA in inciting, promoting, and rewarding terror, suddenly Wennesland remained completely silent!

 

[Hollie]

​

In keeping with the Pally program of youth indoctrination, children were barraged with snappy slogans about 'our Pal'istan''.

Odd because the Egyptian who invented ''Pal'istanians'' understood that those Arabs-Moslens never held sovereignty over lands of the Turkish caliphate.

Children at Gaza Kindergarten Performance Marking 104th Anniversary of the Balfour Declaration​

 

[Hollie]

​

Palestinian Authority Mufti expelled from al-Aqsa mosque​

In today's episode of Mr. Mufti says, we learn that Mr. Mufti says, ''an angry mob of fist-pumping retrogrades means I better leave before my head is removed from my torso.

 

[Hollie]

In the alternate reality of Pal-Arabism, we find a lovely discussion of gender equality for the Ummah's girls... you know, the warriors in Shame Sacks.

"Female Martyrs and terrorists are proof of gender equality in Palestinian society"

Yeah. I know.

It could be a yet undiscovered viral / bacterial infection based disease, or, more likely, a sociopathic condition. I'll go with the latter.

Palestinian women honored for role in terror â on national Palestinian Womenâs Day | PMW Analysis

PA Minister of Women’s Affairs cites female mass murderer and “female Martyrs” as proof of gender equality in Palestinian society

www.palwatch.org

Female Martyrs and terrorists are proof of gender equality in Palestinian society - PA minister of women’s affairs
Official Palestinian Authority TV | Oct 26, 2021




Official PA TV program Palestine This Morning, on Palestinian Women’s Day