Who Are The Palestinians " III "

[Sixties Fan]

I've already posted the relevant facts. Your my way or the highway attitude, will not work.

Your way is fables. My way is history.

One of us has a problem with facts

 

[rylah]

Wrong. Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews have been living there for over 2000 years. It was only when the Zionists showed up that things got violent.

So why did Arabs limit it to merely 2 years,
and can't even pronounce 'P- alestine',
coincidence?

Actually Zionism was initiated in response to Arab pogroms.
No Zionist ever shot a bullet before the Damascus Affair,
and following Arab pogroms throughout the Caliphate.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The facts about Jewish "Land theft" from Arabs.

The Zionist response to the 1929 attacks was to develop the concept of the “N” of Jewish settlement as illustrated in the map. The clustering of settlements into a discernible N-shaped pattern had characterized Zionist settlement since the 1880s. Since the First Aliyah pioneers had settled on the plains of Eretz Israel: the Sharon or coastal plain, the Jezreel Valley, the Beit She’an Valley below the Sea of Galilee, and up into the finger of the Upper Galilee. This was the base for what would become the “N” of settlement. With the Arab population located largely in the hills and the mountains of Palestine, land could be purchased and settled more readily in the valleys where absentee landlords were willing to sell to Jews. What is significant is that even though some Palestinian Arabs initiated violence against Jews, others, members of leading families including that of the Mufti, sold land for Zionist settlement. It is important to note that all the lands on which Zionists established settlements were purchased from Arabs, and not taken by conquest or international treaty. ​

The shaded areas within the “N” of settlement represent land purchased or settled by Jews prior to Independence in 1948. The map also indicates selected purchases and settlements outside this region: near Jerusalem, the northern Negev and the Western Galilee near the Lebanese border. Zionist planners also consciously invested their resources outside the Arab-populated West Bank until independence. This policy effectively established which areas would become part of the Jewish state after Independence.​

Israel Studies An Anthology: Jewish Settlement in Israel

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

The monthly UN OCHA report on Gaza for July has been released, and they added some graphics I hadn't seen before.

This one shows that Israel provides Gaza with no less than ten separate electricity feeds, three of which are split off in Gaza itself. Israel provides far more electricity to Gaza than the Gaza power plant does,


But I was surprised to see that even though Israel has built large pipelines to securely transfer fuel to Gaza at Kerem Shalom, the Hamas government prefers to obtain most of its fuel from Egypt. Industrial fuel is exclusively from Israel but everything else is mostly from Egyptian sources.

Egyptian fuel imports:




Israeli fuel imports:



My guess is that Egyptian fuel is cheaper, and perhaps Hamas can more easily tax and redirect the Egyptian fuel for their own purposes.

However, in May and June, Israeli exports of cooking gas went much higher while Egyptian exports plummeted. Apparently, the cost of Egyptian cooking gas soared(some blame Hamas, Hamas blames new regulations) and it seems Israeli gas became more affordable by contrast. Gazans were very angry at Hamas when someone published the raw costs of cooking gas from Egypt and the Gaza costs were double that amount.

As usual, what we see in the media is only a tiny portion of what open sources can tell us, and the open sources are only a tiny portion of what is really going on. So-called experts are working with very limited information yet they confidently tell everyone else their analyses as if it is based on all the information - and it never is.

Israel provides more electricity to Gaza than you think - but Egypt has been providing more fuel

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Billo_Really]

Did the Bedouins who moved into the area and took over some lands, own it?

Jews moved in and BOUGHT the land they lived in, swamps, sand.

Amazing how Jews are not allowed to buy land where NO ONE lives !!!!!

Who lived in those swamps, or sands? Were there any villages? Were there any persons there?
-----------------------------------------------------
Tel Aviv was founded in 1909. While Jaffa is now part of Tel Aviv was a fully-fledged city back then, Tel Aviv was a new town under construction. This is the founding of Tel Aviv on April 11, 1909:

Construction quickly followed so for the rest of 1909 it would have been going up. Tel Aviv very rapidly turned into a functioning town. This is Tel Aviv in 1910:

And in 1912:

And in 1915:

How did Tel Aviv look like in the 1900s compared to the 1930s?

Answer (1 of 3): Tel Aviv was founded in 1909. While Jaffa is now part of Tel Aviv was a fully-fledged city back then, Tel Aviv was a new town under construction. This is the founding of Tel Aviv on April 11, 1909: Construction quickly followed so for the rest of 1909 it would have been going up...

www.quora.com

Wrong! Over a million Arabs were already living there.

 

[Billo_Really]

So why did Arabs limit it to merely 2 years,
and can't even pronounce 'P- alestine',
coincidence?

Actually Zionism was initiated in response to Arab pogroms.
No Zionist ever shot a bullet before the Damascus Affair,
and following Arab pogroms throughout the Caliphate.

Major violence didn't start in that area until that riot in 1929. You cannot deny the violence committed by Irgun.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Wrong! Over a million Arabs were already living there.

Like everything else which comes out of you:

How many Arabs lived in Israel 1900?


Early Ottoman period

Year	Population
1897-1898	1315	480,843
1898-1899	1316	486,850
1899-1900	1317	492,940
1900-1901	1318	499,110

39 more rows

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia​

 

[Billo_Really]

Like everything else which comes out of you:

How many Arabs lived in Israel 1900?


Early Ottoman period

Year	Population
1897-1898	1315	480,843
1898-1899	1316	486,850
1899-1900	1317	492,940
1900-1901	1318	499,110

39 more rows

Demographic history of Palestine (region) - Wikipedia​

Do you have any Palestinian friends?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Major violence didn't start in that area until that riot in 1929. You cannot deny the violence committed by Irgun.

Irgun was yet to be formed when all of these happened.

Same as the last post:

1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

------------
The firsts series bouts of violence after the establishment of the mandate broke out in 1920. In February, a group of Arab marauders attacked the settlements of Metulla and Tel Chai. Killed in the attack was Joseph Trumpeldor, who had been the leader of the Zion Mule Corps during World war I and was one of the heroes of Yishiv.

Soon after, there was rioting in Jerusalem on April 4 during the time of the Muslim holiday of Nebi Mussah. The rioting went on for three days, in the first day alone 150 Jews were wounded, by the time it ended there were scores injured and several dead. Vladamir Jabotinsky believed that the Jews had to defend themselves, and he quickly organized a group to protect against the rioters. Initially, the British had given him the green light, but then changed their mind and arrested them when they entered the Old City. Most of the Arab rioters were never charged, with two exceptions, but the Jewish self-defense group members led by Jabotinsky were sentenced to 15 years in prison. The outcry caused by the prison sentence was powerful. As a result of the outcry, a commission of inquiry was formed. A British intelligence officer testified that some of the British military officers collided with the Arabs. The sentences of Jabotinsky and his comrades were dismissed. The British government, as a result, decided to turn the governance of Palestine over to a civilian administration. The Arabs had hoped to effect the San Remo Conference, which was meeting and was about to affirm the British mandate, something most Arabs opposed. It did not affect the decision.

On May 1, 1921, a March was planned by the Achdut Avoda ( a socialist Zionist organization) with the approval of the police- to support workers' rights The Jewish communist party also planned a march calling the establishment of a communist state in Palestine. Their march did not have police approval. They marched anyway. When the two demonstrations met, fighting broke out between the two.

The Arabs in Jaffo decided to take advantage of the mayhem and started attacking Jewish homes throughout Jaffa, killing many of the residents. The Jewish hostel where new immigrants arrived was a notable target, and the police who were called to help are reported to have taken part in the attacks.

Fighting soon spread beyond Jaffa. A farm in Abu Kabir was attacked, and the owners, their sons, two renters, and the writer Yosef Haim Brenner were killed.
The British High Commissioner Herbert Samuel requested additional troops from Egypt to put down the rioting. When it was over 47 Jews, and 48 Arabs lay dead, and another 146 Jews and 73 Arabs were wounded. Most of the Arab deaths came from clashes with British troops who were trying to put down the rioting.

One of the most immediate results of the rioting was the official separation of Tel Aviv into a separate city.

​

1920,1921 Arab Riots in Palestine1920,1921 Arab Riots in Palestine

1920,1921 Arab Riots in Palestine: Tel Hai, Jerusalem and Jaffo

www.historycentral.com

-------------

The riots took the form, for the most part, of attacks by Arabs on Jews accompanied by destruction of Jewish property.
...
1929 Palestine riots.

1929 Arab riots in Palestine
Location	British Mandate of Palestine (Safed, Hebron, Jerusalem, Jaffa)
Date	23–29 August 1929
Deaths	133 Jews 116+ Arabs

3 more rows

1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia​

 

[Billo_Really]

Irgun was yet to be formed when all of these happened.

Same as the last post:

1920 Nebi Musa riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

------------
The firsts series bouts of violence after the establishment of the mandate broke out in 1920. In February, a group of Arab marauders attacked the settlements of Metulla and Tel Chai. Killed in the attack was Joseph Trumpeldor, who had been the leader of the Zion Mule Corps during World war I and was one of the heroes of Yishiv.

Soon after, there was rioting in Jerusalem on April 4 during the time of the Muslim holiday of Nebi Mussah. The rioting went on for three days, in the first day alone 150 Jews were wounded, by the time it ended there were scores injured and several dead. Vladamir Jabotinsky believed that the Jews had to defend themselves, and he quickly organized a group to protect against the rioters. Initially, the British had given him the green light, but then changed their mind and arrested them when they entered the Old City. Most of the Arab rioters were never charged, with two exceptions, but the Jewish self-defense group members led by Jabotinsky were sentenced to 15 years in prison. The outcry caused by the prison sentence was powerful. As a result of the outcry, a commission of inquiry was formed. A British intelligence officer testified that some of the British military officers collided with the Arabs. The sentences of Jabotinsky and his comrades were dismissed. The British government, as a result, decided to turn the governance of Palestine over to a civilian administration. The Arabs had hoped to effect the San Remo Conference, which was meeting and was about to affirm the British mandate, something most Arabs opposed. It did not affect the decision.

On May 1, 1921, a March was planned by the Achdut Avoda ( a socialist Zionist organization) with the approval of the police- to support workers' rights The Jewish communist party also planned a march calling the establishment of a communist state in Palestine. Their march did not have police approval. They marched anyway. When the two demonstrations met, fighting broke out between the two.

The Arabs in Jaffo decided to take advantage of the mayhem and started attacking Jewish homes throughout Jaffa, killing many of the residents. The Jewish hostel where new immigrants arrived was a notable target, and the police who were called to help are reported to have taken part in the attacks.

Fighting soon spread beyond Jaffa. A farm in Abu Kabir was attacked, and the owners, their sons, two renters, and the writer Yosef Haim Brenner were killed.
The British High Commissioner Herbert Samuel requested additional troops from Egypt to put down the rioting. When it was over 47 Jews, and 48 Arabs lay dead, and another 146 Jews and 73 Arabs were wounded. Most of the Arab deaths came from clashes with British troops who were trying to put down the rioting.

One of the most immediate results of the rioting was the official separation of Tel Aviv into a separate city.

​

1920,1921 Arab Riots in Palestine1920,1921 Arab Riots in Palestine

1920,1921 Arab Riots in Palestine: Tel Hai, Jerusalem and Jaffo

www.historycentral.com

-------------

The riots took the form, for the most part, of attacks by Arabs on Jews accompanied by destruction of Jewish property.
...
1929 Palestine riots.

1929 Arab riots in Palestine
Location	British Mandate of Palestine (Safed, Hebron, Jerusalem, Jaffa)
Date	23–29 August 1929
Deaths	133 Jews 116+ Arabs

3 more rows

1929 Palestine riots - Wikipedia​

Okay, let's talk about Irgun from '29 - '48.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Okay, let's talk about Irgun from '29 - '48.

We cannot talk about Irgun from "29 . There was no Irgun in 1929.

We are on the wrong thread to discuss that.

Coming to the right one?

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts. The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

The New York Times has an interesting article about the revelation that Herman Heukels, who took most of the famous photographs of Jews getting ready to be transported from Amsterdam to work or death camps, was a Nazi.

With this knowledge, we now understand that he intended to demean the Jews whose photos he was taking. He didn't take any photos of the police rounding them up, for example.

In some images, the Jews' dignity shine through anyway.



But this changes the interpretation of the photos.

Janina Struk, author of the 2005 book “Photographing the Holocaust: Interpretations of the Evidence,” said that in the postwar period, photos taken by bystanders, perpetrators and victims were “all kind of mixed together,” and hardly anyone asked who had shot the photos or for what purposes.

In recent years, she added, there has been a greater emphasis on contextualizing the images, explaining how they were made, so that viewers have a better understanding of what they’re looking at — and so people can make better ethical choices about how to present them.

I wish the New York Times cared this much about the context of photos from Gaza taken by modern antisemites.

Here are two photos from last year's war in Gaza that are obviously staged, as I pointed out then:

The New York Times also hires freelance photographers in Gaza who have every incentive to show Israel in a bad light and ignore Hamas war crimes like shooting rockets from populated areas. The NYT is highlighting obviously staged photos as well, like this one, with a bassinet that somehow landed right side up, meters away from the demolished building that supposedly housed it - and without a speck of dust on it. The photographer was also amazingly lucky to find a photogenic, sad boy who just happened to be walking right in front of it, but to the side, so we could see both.


Or this one, where elderly women climbed over dangerous rubble where they could fall and break their hips so they could sit (one on a convenient plastic chair) and look sad in this supposedly candid shot:




Seeing the beach in the background, this airstrike may have been at the Shati camp, where Israel said Hamas leaders were meeting - but the New York Times won't mention that.

Context is everything. Photographers stage their photos and direct the subjects as actors when they won't get caught. They gather ahead of time in likely trouble spots but ensure that the other dozens of photographers crowding around are never in the shot. They choose the ones that tell the story they want to tell and don't submit the ones that contradict them. The freelancers provide the background information that is believed implicitly by the editors.

Is there any moral difference between publishing context-free photos from people who hated Jews in the 1940s and those from people who hate Jews today?

The last paragraph of the article about the Nazi photos is the best summary of the topic, and one that fair media would be attuned to if they cared about context and objectivity.

Struk added, “We need to move away from the idea that a photograph is just a window on the world. It isn’t. It’s a very edited version of what the photographer chose to photograph.”

Yes, @NYTimes, photographs can mislead. And you have published lots of them yourself.

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Col Richard Kemp: "Palestinian" Movement Invented by the KGB

It is always a pleasure speaking with Col. Richard Kemp, one of the champions for truth and Israel on the world stage.

pulseofisrael.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Palestinian media is celebrating terrorist Abbas Al-Sayed receiving his master's degree in regional studies - from prison.

Al-Sayed is one of the most senior Hamas terrorists in prison, having been the mastermind of the HaSharon Mall suicide bombing in 2001 that murdered five Israelis and the Park Hotel Passover Seder massacre in 2002 that killed 30.

Both of those attacks were in Netanya, the coastal city that is only nine miles from the Green Line.

Al-Sayed's wife sent a message to the media: "At the mercy of the injustice of the prison and the warden, our prisoners innovate in bringing children into the world behind bars (through sperm smuggling), in education and obtaining the highest level of degrees, thanks to their patience, courage, steadfastness and strong will.

"On my behalf, my children and my family, we extend our congratulations and blessings from my captive husband, Engineer Abbas Al-Sayed, on the occasion of receiving a master's degree in regional studies from Al-Quds University (Abu Dis) with a very good grade, and we ask God that the doctorate will be in an atmosphere of freedom."


Al Quds University has campuses in Abu Dis, Ramallah, the Old City of Jerusalem (in the Souq Al Qattanin next to Al Aqsa) and Sheikh Jarrah. The latter two are within the Jerusalem Municipality under full Israeli control.

Matan Peleg, CEO of Im Tirtzu and Maor Zemach, Chairman of Lech Yerushalayim, responded to this news with a statement: ''The fact that Al-Quds University operates within the territory of sovereign Jerusalem and allows itself to distribute titles to abominable terrorists and murderers is a disgrace for the State of Israel. Just as the Minister of Education acts to close schools that incite violence, she must act immediately to close this institution that incites murder. The principals should be sent to prison immediately."

Mastermind of Passover massacre and HaSharon Mall attack receives his master's degree in prison

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians " III "
SUBTOPIC: Rehabilitation
⁜→Sixties Fan, et al,

(INTERESTING) Rehabilitation for Major Terrorist Personalities.

"On my behalf, my children and my family, we extend our congratulations and blessings from my captive husband, Engineer Abbas Al-Sayed, on the occasion of receiving a master's degree in regional studies from Al-Quds University (Abu Dis) with a very good grade, and we ask God that the doctorate will be in an atmosphere of freedom."

Al Quds University has campuses in Abu Dis, Ramallah, the Old City of Jerusalem (in the Souq Al Qattanin next to Al Aqsa) and Sheikh Jarrah. The latter two are within the Jerusalem Municipality under full Israeli control.

(COMMENT)

Remember that there is a history of terrorists having advanced education. But having such academic credentials does not untwist the mind of a terrorist. I do not believe that there is any serious study that demonstrates those outcomes. Osama bin Laden had an Engineering Degree. It may have helped make him better in designing and executing operations necessary for successful Criminal Enterprise activities, but I see no evidence that there is a major alteration in the way individual terrorists perceive the world.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

When the member of the recently established UN Human Rights Council “Commission of Inquiry," Miloon Kothari, expressed anti-Semitic hate speech and denial of Israel's right to be a UN member, 12 western democracies and the EU were quick to condemn him. Standing out in support of the hate speech was the Palestinian Authority, whose Foreign Ministry rushed to defend the Antisemitism and condemn Israel for condemning it.

“The [PA] Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates condemned the attack of incitement and deception that [Israeli] occupation state transitional Prime Minister Yair Lapid carried out against the UN Human Rights Council investigative committee.”
[WAFA, official PA news agency, Aug. 1, 2022]

The countries that condemned the anti-Semitic hate of Kothari included, the USA, the UK, Canada, France, Australia, the Czech Republic, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Hungry, Belgium and Italy.

Significantly, while the PA was adamant to criticize Israel’s condemnation of the Antisemitism, it was silent about all the other condemnations, not wanting to insult its donors.

Referring to that fact that Israel has predominantly ignored the openly biased agenda of the UN and the endless, nonbinding, resolutions it has passed, Kothari said:

“And in fact, I mean, I would go as far as to raise the question as why are they even a member of the United Nations, because they don’t respect—the Israeli government does not respect its own obligations as a UN Member State. They, in fact, consistently, either directly or through the United States, try to undermine UN mechanisms.”

Dismissing the international criticism of the biased Commission of Inquiry he is part of, Kothari easily adopted openly anti-Semitic tropes of the media being controlled by the “Jewish lobby”:

“And also, I think that it’s not only governments, but we are very disheartened by the social media that is controlled largely by whether it’s the Jewish Lobby or it’s the specific NGOs. A lot of money is being thrown in to trying to discredit us.”

The reason the PA was so quick to defend Kothari, is because the statements he made predominantly reflect similar statements made over the years by PA officials.

PA chooses to side with Antisemitism and hate | PMW Analysis

PA chooses to side with Antisemitism and hate

palwatch.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ Why are there "refugee camps" in the Gaza? Are these the Palestinians used every time to show what a "concentration camp" Gaza is? Are they kept in poverty to be used by Hamas and others? ]

The Gaza Strip is commonly associated with densely populated refugee camps. Reuters' article last week, "Palestinians strive to stop Gaza shore erosion with concrete and rubble," shored up that abiding image, even as it abetted the erosion of the journalistic imperative to adhere to factual accuracy.

Thus, in a blatant factual error, Nidal Al-Mughrabi wrote of the coastal Hamas-run territory: "with a population of 2.3 million Palestinians, most of them live in refugee camps . . . "

In fact, according to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), less than one-third of the territory's population lives in refugee camps. While UNRWA inexplicably no longer publishes statistics for the populations living in the eight refugee camps in Gaza Strip, that information was on the agency's site until last spring, and can still be retrieved by way of the web archive, Wayback Machine.

Thus, according to UNRWA, the United Nations organization tasked with responsibility for Palestinian refugees in Gaza and everywhere else, there were 593,163 Gazans living in the eight refugee camps, out of a total of 1.9 million Gaza residents at the time (31 percent). The breakdown was Beach refugee camp, which was featured in the Reuters piece (85,628); Bureij (more than 43,330); Deir al-Balah (more than 25,569); Jabalia (nearly 113,990): Khan Younis (87,816); Al-Maghazi (31,329); Nuseirat (more than 80,194) and Rafah (125,304).

Per UNRWA's own data, it's not even true that most of the 1.4 million refugees living in the Gaza Strip live in refugee camps. Of the territory's refugee population, only some 42 percent live in refugee camps, according to UNRWA's own information.

Interestingly, 2017 data from the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics yields a much lower figure for the number of Gazans residing in refugee camps: 252,841 (culled from pages 81-82) out of a total 1,899,291 residents of the Gaza Strip (page 81). In other words, according to the PCBS' 2017 data, just over 13 percent of Gaza residents lived in refugee camps.

The Washington Post previously corrected a similar error.

CAMERA is in communication with Reuters about this error. Stay tuned for any developments.

Aug. 1 Update (2:45 pm ET): Reuters Corrects​

After the publication of this post earlier today, Reuters amended the article to accurately cite Gaza Strip's

population of 2.3 million Palestinians, around a quarter of whom live in refugee camps, according to U.N. figures.

In addition, a correction appended to the top of the article states:

(This July 27 story corrects paragraph 7 to show a quarter of Gaza population lives in refugee camps)

We commend Reuters for setting the record straight.

Reuters Crams Gaza Residents into Refugee Camps

UPDATED: Reuters commendably corrects after erroneously reporting that most residents of the Gaza Strip live in refugee camps. According to the UN, around 25

www.camera.org

 

[Billo_Really]

We cannot talk about Irgun from "29 . There was no Irgun in 1929.

We are on the wrong thread to discuss that.

Coming to the right one?

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

This thread was created in order to attempt to fix the significant derailment of another thread without having to delete posts. The topic of this thread is one that comes up with regularity in IP, and is also a frequent derailer of active threads so it will now have a thread of it's own which...

www.usmessageboard.com

You want to talk about the Palestinian's, but you don't want to talk about what you did to them!

 

[Sixties Fan]

You want to talk about the Palestinian's, but you don't want to talk about what you did to them!

You want to talk about what happened until 1948 this is the thread for it:

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

The Zionists looted and leveled Arab villages. Give me links

www.usmessageboard.com

You should not have a problem finding that thread

 

[Billo_Really]

You want to talk about what happened until 1948 this is the thread for it:

The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

The Zionists looted and leveled Arab villages. Give me links

www.usmessageboard.com

You should not have a problem finding that thread

Who are the Palestinian's? They are people that want your foot off their neck!