Who Are The Palestinians " III "

[rylah]

I know at the turn of the last century, Arabs were the majority land owners in this area.

Ownership is more than possession.

Did Arabs become a majority by peaceful means?

 

[Sixties Fan]

70%

Where did you get that number?
How much of it did they sell to Jews?

 

[Billo_Really]

Who Dispossessed the Palestinian Peasant?

The Palestinian peasant was indeed being dispossessed, but by his fellow-Arabs: the local sheikh and village elders, the Government tax-collector, the merchants and money-lenders; and, when he was a tenant-farmer (as was usually the case), by the absentee-owner. By the time the season’s crop had been distributed among all these, little if anything remained for him and his family, and new debts generally had to be incurred to pay off the old. Then the Bedouin came along and took their “cut”, or drove the hapless fellah off the land altogether.

This was the “normal” course of events in 19th-century Palestine. It was disrupted by the advent of the Jewish pioneering enterprise, which sounded the death-knell of this medieval feudal system. In this way the Jews played an objective revolutionary role. Small wonder that it aroused the ire and active opposition of the Arab sheikhs, absentee landowners, money-lenders and Bedouin bandits.

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When considering Jewish land purchases and settlements, four factors should be borne in mind:

1. Most of the land purchases involved large tracts belonging to absentee owners. (Virtually all of the Jezreel Valley, for example, belonged in 1897 to only two persons: the eastern portion to the Turkish Sultan, and the western part to the richest banker in Syria, Sursuk “the Greek.”)
2. Most of the land purchased had not been cultivated previously because it was swampy, rocky, sandy or, for some other reason, regarded as uncultivable. This is supported by the findings of the Peel Commission Report (p. 242): “The Arab charge that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased . . . there was at the time at least of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.” (1937)
3. While, for this reason, the early transactions did not involve unduly large sums of money, the price of land began to rise as Arab landowners took advantage of the growing demand for rural tracts. The resulting infusion of capital into the Palestinian economy had noticeable beneficial effects on the standard of living of all the inhabitants.
4. The Jewish pioneers introduced new farming methods which improved the soil and crop cultivation and were soon emulated by Arab farmers.

The following figures show land purchases by the three leading Jewish land-buying organizations and by individual Jews between 1880 and 1935.

(vide online)

From the above table it will be seen that the proportion of the land purchased from large (usually absentee) owners ranged from about 50 to 90 per cent.

“The total area of land in Jewish possession at the end of June 1947,” writes A. Granott in The Land System in Palestine (Eyre and Spottiswoode, London, 1952, p. 278), “amounted to 1,850,000 dunams, of this 181,100 dunams had been obtained through concessions from the Palestinian Government, and about 120,000 dunams had been acquired from Churches, from foreign companies, from the Government otherwise than by concessions, and so forth. It was estimated that 1,000,000 dunams and more, or 57 per cent, had been acquired from large Arab landowners, and if to this we add the lands acquired from the Government, Churches, and foreign companies, the percentage will amount to seventy-three. From the fellaheen there had been purchased about 500,000 dunams, or 27 per cent, of the total acquired. The result of Jewish land acquisitions, at least to a considerable part, was that properties which had been in the hands of large and medium owners were converted into holding of small peasants.”


(full article online )

Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880–1948 | survival

lessons.myjli.com

What's with the data dump? It doesn't take a genius to realize you can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

 

[Hollie]

What's with the data dump? It doesn't take a genius to realize you can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

Thats the history of Arab / Islamic conquest and subjugation.

 

[Sixties Fan]

What's with the data dump? It doesn't take a genius to realize you can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

The Jews did not take anything which was not theirs. The facts in the article hurt your narrative.

You disregard the whole history of what was happening to those peasants who owned no land at all.

You disregard the Bedouins who came and took the land they wanted.

You disregard the fact that Jews only bought, legally, land which had been swamp, or sand, etc and made it into villages and cities, where none had been before.

No rights were taken from anyone at the turn of the century as you are alleging, not by the Jews who were returning to their ancient homeland.

 

[Billo_Really]

Where did you get that number?
How much of it did they sell to Jews?

Much of that was taken by force from Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Much of that was taken by force from Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.

What I posted was what you pointed out to.

The turn of the century.

After 1920, Arabs were set up to riot against the Jews because of the possibility of a sovereign Jewish State.

I answered your post, do not change the subject.

 

[Billo_Really]

Thats the history of Arab / Islamic conquest and subjugation.

All righty then.

 

[rylah]

What's with the data dump? It doesn't take a genius to realize you can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

That's why all it takes to be called a 'Palestinian',
is mere passing in the land for 2 years?

 

[Billo_Really]

What I posted was what you pointed out to.

The turn of the century.

After 1920, Arabs were set up to riot against the Jews because of the possibility of a sovereign Jewish State.

I answered your post, do not change the subject.

What are you talking about? You migrated into the area, then attacked the majority land owners.

 

[Billo_Really]

That's why 'Palestinian' is anyone
who passed for mere 2 years in the land?

Wrong. Palestinian-Arabs and Palestinian-Jews have been living there for over 2000 years. It was only when the Zionists showed up that things got violent.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

70%

Any backup? Or just a feeling?

 

[Hollie]

Much of that was taken by force from Jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.

Nonsense.

The article is now behind a paywall but wasn't earlier.

​

Turkey hands over Ottoman land records to Palestinians

The Turkish Government on Sunday Gave the Palestinian Authority a Copy of the Ottoman Archive Containing All Documents Pertaining to Land Ownership in Pre-state

www.haaretz.com

The Turkish government on Sunday gave the Palestinian Authority a copy of the Ottoman archive containing all documents pertaining to land ownership in pre-state Israel through 1916.

The PA requested the records to support Palestinian land claims. The Palestinians say that these documents reflect the "true" ownership of the land. One year later, in 1917, Britain drove the Ottomans out of the country and issued the Balfour Declaration, expressing support for the establishment of a Jewish state in what was then called Palestine. The Palestinians say these evens represented the start of "a Zionist takeover of their land, under the auspices of British imperialism."

Even before 1917, Jewish and Zionist institutions had purchased large tracts of land in Palestine from absentee landlords, who lived mainly in Syria and Lebanon. These landlords had previously leased their property to local farmers, but were happy to sell it for the right price, without giving a thought to their tenant farmers. Nevertheless, Palestinians view these sales as more legitimate than those that took place during the British occupation that began in 1917

Under Ottoman rule, a substantial portion of the land in Palestine was registered as state land. Some of this land was later sold or transferred to pre-state Jewish institutions. Other portions belonged to the Muslim waqf (religious trust), and these, according to Islamic law, cannot be sold. However, there was no orderly registration process; ownership was determined primarily using records such as tax payments.

Ever since 1948, Palestinian institutions dealing with the refugee issue have been trying to obtain accurate records on the land and property that were lost when Israel was established. This effort has gained steam in recent years, but no Palestinian institution has come close to collecting all the relevant data. One reason for the lackadaisical effort may be the Palestinians' understanding that the data has little practical value other than for public relations. At most, it will be used in the bargaining over compensation for refugees, if and when such negotiations take place

 

[Sixties Fan]

What are you talking about? You migrated into the area, then attacked the majority land owners.

You are reading fables. Fables are not history.

You have no understanding of what Land Owners is. How many land owners there were. Not every person in the region 'Owned" the piece of land they lived on. Many left because of environment, many left because of the Bedouin.

Jews have always returned to their ancient homeland. At any time, any century. And stayed there. And there were no problems.

Jews continue to move back in the 19th century. At the end of that century many had returned. No one accused the Jews of Taking Land from their owners. Just as before, they BOUGHT land from the owners, usually swamp and sand dunes.

With the Mandate for Palestine, the Al Husseini clan turned against the Jewish right to have a sovereign state ON the ancient Jewish homeland, and started riots and expelling and killing Jews. All the Jews did was defend themselves from those attacks.

The Arabs attacked first. The Jews defended themselves, having the right to be there.

 

[Billo_Really]

Any backup? Or just a feeling?

Yeah. And I sent it to you a long time ago. You"re still doing the same schtik.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yeah. And I sent it to you a long time ago. You"re still doing the same schtik.

You have no backup at all. Just fables against the jews.

Try for real history and records.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah. And I sent it to you a long time ago. You"re still doing the same schtik.

You know Ottoman ownership does not equal Arab ownership, right?

If your landland dies (or loses a war) you don't magically become the owner.
You know that, don't you?

 

[Billo_Really]

You are reading fables. Fables are not history.

You have no understanding of what Land Owners is. How many land owners there were. Not every person in the region 'Owned" the piece of land they lived on. Many left because of environment, many left because of the Bedouin.

Jews have always returned to their ancient homeland. At any time, any century. And stayed there. And there were no problems.

Jews continue to move back in the 19th century. At the end of that century many had returned. No one accused the Jews of Taking Land from their owners. Just as before, they BOUGHT land from the owners, usually swamp and sand dunes.

With the Mandate for Palestine, the Al Husseini clan turned against the Jewish right to have a sovereign state ON the ancient Jewish homeland, and started riots and expelling and killing Jews. All the Jews did was defend themselves from those attacks.

The Arabs attacked first. The Jews defended themselves, having the right to be there.

Well, the person who just moved into the area didn't own it!

 

[Billo_Really]

You have no backup at all. Just fables against the jews.

Try for real history and records.

I've already posted the relevant facts. Your my way or the highway attitude, will not work.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Well, the person who just moved into the area didn't own it!

Did the Bedouins who moved into the area and took over some lands, own it?

Jews moved in and BOUGHT the land they lived in, swamps, sand.

Amazing how Jews are not allowed to buy land where NO ONE lives !!!!!

Who lived in those swamps, or sands? Were there any villages? Were there any persons there?
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Tel Aviv was founded in 1909. While Jaffa is now part of Tel Aviv was a fully-fledged city back then, Tel Aviv was a new town under construction. This is the founding of Tel Aviv on April 11, 1909:

Construction quickly followed so for the rest of 1909 it would have been going up. Tel Aviv very rapidly turned into a functioning town. This is Tel Aviv in 1910:

And in 1912:

And in 1915:

How did Tel Aviv look like in the 1900s compared to the 1930s?

Answer (1 of 3): Tel Aviv was founded in 1909. While Jaffa is now part of Tel Aviv was a fully-fledged city back then, Tel Aviv was a new town under construction. This is the founding of Tel Aviv on April 11, 1909: Construction quickly followed so for the rest of 1909 it would have been going up...

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