Who are the Israelis?

[rosends]

Sigh...

Israel’s DNA wars: Forbidden tests​

Gee...the MEMO or the NIH?

Genetics and genomic medicine in Israel

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'll stick with the NIH. Feel free to use the MEMO as your source. The Muslim Brotherhood needs sheep.

 

[rylah]

Gee...the MEMO or the NIH?

Genetics and genomic medicine in Israel

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'll stick with the NIH. Feel free to use the MEMO as your source. The Muslim Brotherhood needs sheep.

Ancestry.com isn't an Israeli startup?

David Duchovny learns about the Jaffa massacre

Netanyahu: I have Sephardic roots as well

At an event at the Diaspora Museum, the prime minister surprises attendees by announcing that based on a DNA test, part of his family is descended from Spanish Jews.

www.ynetnews.com

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Gee...the MEMO or the NIH?

Genetics and genomic medicine in Israel

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I'll stick with the NIH. Feel free to use the MEMO as your source. The Muslim Brotherhood needs sheep.

Kind of blows a hole in the old "ancestral homeland" fantasy doesn't it. To think 750,000 Palestinians were expelled 70 years ago and 40,000 killed this year and hundreds of "settlements" (dontya love that word) created all because of a Zionist lie.

 

[rosends]

Kind of blows a hole in the old "ancestral homeland" fantasy doesn't it.

You don't know the meaning of the term "ancestral homeland" do you? What you just wrote makes that painfully clear. I'm sorry, I thought I was engaging with someone who understood the terms he used. Once you learn some basics you can come back and laugh at your own inanity. Then you will also see how your statement doesn't at all follow the post to which you are responding.

To think 750,000 Palestinians were expelled 70 years ago

oooh...no, not really.

and 40,000 killed this year

oh, so close but, no.

and hundreds of "settlements" (dontya love that word)

Yeah. Why wouldn't I love that word? How do you feel about the word "chifforobe."

created all because of a Zionist lie.

So far the only one to be demonstrate as having a deficient hold on the truth is you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I'd never heard of that so thanks for bringing it up. I did a tiny bit of digging and found this (Azzam's words in red)



The article you cited also says that original text could be traced to that newspaper, Oct 11 edition. But it also said that "An examination of the original article readily confirms the quote's authenticity, laying to rest one of the longest running historiographical debates attending the 1948 war" but the Wikipedia article's quote does not the term "extermination" but "elimination".

The text of the newspaper and the article itself is here:

View attachment 971809View attachment 971813

Here's the full image here.

Perhaps an Arab speaker here can read this text, translate it accurately for us...

Whether the word is translated as extermination or eradication or elimination of the Jews, the fact is the Arabs were threatening to kill all the Jews because in the new state of Israel they could no longer be treated as second class citizens the way they have been by the Arabs for centuries, and you clearly find this ample justification for genocide.

 

[rylah]

​

 

[rylah]

Who are the people making 'Aliyah this summer?

Ahead of Shavuot: 602 Ruths and Naomis make aliyah in the past decade

The Aliyah and Integration Ministry reported that in the last decade, 602 women named Ruth and Naomi have made aliyah to Israel, reflecting cultural and historical connections.

www.jpost.com

Despite conflict, scores of Jews move to Israel

Despite the ongoing war and lack of safety, a new wave of Jews from the US and France choose to make aliyah, demonstrating an unwavering commitment to the State of Israel.

www.jpost.com

​

 

[rylah]

​

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Whether the word is translated as extermination or eradication or elimination of the Jews, the fact is the Arabs were threatening to kill all the Jews because in the new state of Israel they could no longer be treated as second class citizens the way they have been by the Arabs for centuries, and you clearly find this ample justification for genocide.

Those words do have different meanings though and pretending they all mean "kill all Jews" isn't something I can condone if we're being honest here. The information I have found (and shared) so far shows two translations "exterminate" and "eliminate" I have no idea which is closer to the Arabic as written in the Egyptian newspaper and until I do, I cannot truly perceive the meaning.

You speak as if this were some kind of war of liberation of Palestinian Jews under a Muslim yoke but we both know that was not the case. Jews in Palestine prior to Zionism never collectively organized with a view to nationalism. The vast majority had never even heard of Zionism and most of those who had wanted nothing to do with it.

Zionism emerged among European secular Jews, motivated by antisemitism in Europe not because of some perceived persecution of Jews by Arabs in Palestine. Zionism with British support turned its attention to Palestine, it was an external foreign ideology that eventually became imposed upon all Jews in Palestine, as you (should) know Zionist organizations in Palestine during the 1920s and 1930s even persecuted non-Zionist Jews, if you want to see the evidence just ask.

So there's no evidence for the claim of Arabs seeking to "eliminate" Jews in any sense until after Zionism was imported and began to mutate in Palestine and develop into the radical nationalism that has come to characterize it.

Also think on this, if there was a basis to the claim, if the "Arabs" had treated Jews in the way you imply, then why would Jews seek to move there en-masse and have done so multiple times? why escape the vicious Nazis who now stood defeated and and run into the hand of the vicious Arabs? why escape Germany after the death of the Third Reich and move to a region where one is literally surrounded by Muslims? It doesn't make any sense because there's no truth to it.

Jews did not move to Palestine because of some attraction to Zionist ideology, they moved there to escape persecution in Europe as they had done many times before in the past.

Arab hostility was hostility to an imported fanatical Jewish nationalism (which records show, even mirrored aspects of Nazism) not Jews, just as the hostility toward the Third Reich was not hostility to Germans.

Note too:

Antisemitism—prejudice, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews—has experienced a long history of expression since the days of ancient civilizations, with most of it having originated in the Christian and pre-Christian civilizations of Europe.

Source: Wikipedia

and

During waves of persecution in Medieval Europe, many Jews found refuge in Muslim lands,[22] though in other times and places, Jews fled persecution in Muslim lands and found refuge in Christian lands.[23] Jews expelled from the Iberian Peninsula were invited to settle in various parts of the Ottoman Empire, where they would often form a prosperous model minority of merchants acting as intermediaries for their Muslim rulers.

Source: Wikipedia

See? it is largely a by-product of Christianity in Europe, not Islam in the Middle East. Perversely Zionists now call Germany a "friend" yet that nation was the location of arguably the greatest mass extermination campaign in recorded history.

 

[Deadstick]

Those words do have different meanings though and pretending they all mean "kill all Jews" isn't something I can condone if we're being honest here. The information I have found (and shared) so far shows two translations "exterminate" and "eliminate" I have no idea which is closer to the Arabic as written in the Egyptian newspaper and until I do, I cannot truly perceive the meaning.

You speak as if this were some kind of war of liberation of Palestinian Jews under a Muslim yoke but we both know that was not the case. Jews in Palestine prior to Zionism never collectively organized with a view to nationalism. The vast majority had never even heard of Zionism and most of those who had wanted nothing to do with it.

Zionism emerged among European secular Jews, motivated by antisemitism in Europe not because of some perceived persecution of Jews by Arabs in Palestine. Zionism with British support turned its attention to Palestine, it was an external foreign ideology that eventually became imposed upon all Jews in Palestine, as you (should) know Zionist organizations in Palestine during the 1920s and 1930s even persecuted non-Zionist Jews, if you want to see the evidence just ask.

So there's no evidence for the claim of Arabs seeking to "eliminate" Jews in any sense until after Zionism was imported and began to mutate in Palestine and develop into the radical nationalism that has come to characterize it.

Also think on this, if there was a basis to the claim, if the "Arabs" had treated Jews in the way you imply, then why would Jews seek to move there en-masse and have done so multiple times? why escape the vicious Nazis who now stood defeated and and run into the hand of the vicious Arabs? why escape Germany after the death of the Third Reich and move to a region where one is literally surrounded by Muslims? It doesn't make any sense because there's no truth to it.

Jews did not move to Palestine because of some attraction to Zionist ideology, they moved there to escape persecution in Europe as they had done many times before in the past.

Arab hostility was hostility to an imported fanatical Jewish nationalism (which records show, even mirrored aspects of Nazism) not Jews, just as the hostility toward the Third Reich was not hostility to Germans.



Source: Wikipedia

and



Source: Wikipedia

See? it is largely a by-product of Christianity in Europe, not Islam in the Middle East. Perversely Zionists now call Germany a "friend" yet that nation was the location of arguably the greatest mass extermination campaign in recorded history.

Zionism has nothing to do with Judeism, Zionism is a extreme Jewish nationalism, and some are not even Jews, Netanyah is not religious, some of them even collaborated with the Nazis while the allies were fighting them, the Zionist credo is very much like the Nazis.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Zionism has nothing to do with Judeism, Zionism is a extreme Jewish nationalism, and some are not even Jews, Netanyah is not religious, some of them even collaborated with the Nazis while the allies were fighting them, the Zionist credo is very much like the Nazis.

Absolutely true, here's just one example of that proximity to Nazism:

Source: Thomas Suarez

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

This is relevant

Source: Thomas Suarez

Note this extremely important observation too:

Most dangerous development is the growth in numbers of Jewish young men and women who are becoming infected with the gangster virus; these are providing recruits for the terrorist organization. As well as active recruits, passive sympathizers with the terrorist's aims, even while they doubt the wisdom of their methods, are multiplying, especially amongst young people; thus there is a tendency for Yishuv to become more and more demoralized by absorption of this poison.

Yishuv:

Yishuv (Hebrew: ישוב, lit. 'settlement'), HaYishuv HaIvri (Hebrew: הישוב העברי, lit. 'the Hebrew settlement'), or HaYishuv HaYehudi Be'Eretz Yisra'el (lit. 'the Jewish (for HaYehudi) / Hebrew (for HaIvri) Community in the Land of Israel') denotes the body of Jewish residents in Palestine prior to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. The term came into use in the 1880s, when there were about 25,000 Jews living in that region, and continued to be used until 1948, by which time there were some 630,000 Jews there.[1] The term is still in use to denote the pre-1948 Jewish residents in Palestine, corresponding to the southern part of Ottoman Syria until 1918, OETA South in 1917–1920, and Mandatory Palestine in 1920–1948.[2]

This is clear evidence that the established existing Jewish community who predated the mass immigration of European Jews and Zionism, wanted nothing to do with this new Jewish nationalism, these Jews dreaded a new Zionist state almost as much as the Arabs did. You can see that this sentiment still exists among the Orthodox Jews who have never embraced Zionism and would have preferred to live as their predecessors did, among Arab friends a neighbors living peacefully. Many Orthodox Jews in Israel today too, will say "We are Israelites not Israelis".

 

[toomuchtime_]

Those words do have different meanings though and pretending they all mean "kill all Jews" isn't something I can condone if we're being honest here. The information I have found (and shared) so far shows two translations "exterminate" and "eliminate" I have no idea which is closer to the Arabic as written in the Egyptian newspaper and until I do, I cannot truly perceive the meaning.

You speak as if this were some kind of war of liberation of Palestinian Jews under a Muslim yoke but we both know that was not the case. Jews in Palestine prior to Zionism never collectively organized with a view to nationalism. The vast majority had never even heard of Zionism and most of those who had wanted nothing to do with it.

Zionism emerged among European secular Jews, motivated by antisemitism in Europe not because of some perceived persecution of Jews by Arabs in Palestine. Zionism with British support turned its attention to Palestine, it was an external foreign ideology that eventually became imposed upon all Jews in Palestine, as you (should) know Zionist organizations in Palestine during the 1920s and 1930s even persecuted non-Zionist Jews, if you want to see the evidence just ask.

So there's no evidence for the claim of Arabs seeking to "eliminate" Jews in any sense until after Zionism was imported and began to mutate in Palestine and develop into the radical nationalism that has come to characterize it.

Also think on this, if there was a basis to the claim, if the "Arabs" had treated Jews in the way you imply, then why would Jews seek to move there en-masse and have done so multiple times? why escape the vicious Nazis who now stood defeated and and run into the hand of the vicious Arabs? why escape Germany after the death of the Third Reich and move to a region where one is literally surrounded by Muslims? It doesn't make any sense because there's no truth to it.

Jews did not move to Palestine because of some attraction to Zionist ideology, they moved there to escape persecution in Europe as they had done many times before in the past.

Arab hostility was hostility to an imported fanatical Jewish nationalism (which records show, even mirrored aspects of Nazism) not Jews, just as the hostility toward the Third Reich was not hostility to Germans.



Source: Wikipedia

and



Source: Wikipedia

See? it is largely a by-product of Christianity in Europe, not Islam in the Middle East. Perversely Zionists now call Germany a "friend" yet that nation was the location of arguably the greatest mass extermination campaign in recorded history.

As always, nothing but bullshit from you, and the more far fetched your lies are, the longer your clumsy efforts to justify them are. The Arab League was quite clear about what the Arabs intended to do to the Jews: "Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a serious massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades."

Clearly their intent was genocide, just as the Grand Mufti's intent had been in 1941 when he went to Berlin to agree to help the nazis kill all the Jews, just as the majority of the Palestinians' intent is today. On Oct 7 the whole world saw what would have happened to the Jews in the ME if there had not been a state of Israel. And what is clear from all of your posts is that your intent is to justify such slaughters of Jews.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Life in egalitarian Israel, a safe place for Jews where they can be free from persecution and violence, an enlightened society. Those Jews know exactly who are the colonizers in Israel, even the little kids tell them to leave!

 

[rylah]

Zionism has nothing to do with Judeism, Zionism is a extreme Jewish nationalism, and some are not even Jews, Netanyah is not religious, some of them even collaborated with the Nazis while the allies were fighting them, the Zionist credo is very much like the Nazis.

Neither was Moses "religious" etc.

The very need in denial of the apparent is evidence.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

As always, nothing but bullshit from you, and the more far fetched your lies are, the longer your clumsy efforts to justify them are. The Arab League was quite clear about what the Arabs intended to do to the Jews: "Personally I hope the Jews do not force us into this war because it will be a war of elimination and it will be a serious massacre which history will record similarly to the Mongol massacre or the wars of the Crusades."

Clearly their intent was genocide, just as the Grand Mufti's intent had been in 1941 when he went to Berlin to agree to help the nazis kill all the Jews, just as the majority of the Palestinians' intent is today. On Oct 7 the whole world saw what would have happened to the Jews in the ME if there had not been a state of Israel. And what is clear from all of your posts is that your intent is to justify such slaughters of Jews.

I have no idea what the intent was, as I said there's some difference of opinion about the translation, go and check, there's some interesting stuff written about it.

It's not sufficient though to use that speech as evidence that Arabs want to kill all Jews, it really isn't. Look at the history of Palestine, no trace of antisemitism, under Ottoman rule Jews migrated INTO Palestine to escape antisemitism IN Europe not Palestine.

I've seen no record of any mass exodus of Jews escaping Palestinian "antisemitism", no evidence of Arab extermination campaigns.

The claim that Palestinians are antisemitic is propaganda. There has been Arab hostility towards Zionism since shortly after WW1 and with good reason, just as there was hostility to Nazism emerging amongst Germany's neighbors in the 1930s.

Now sure many Arabs, Palestinians have grown to hate Israel and I'm sure some do hate Jews, far more than in times past. But this is not hatred of Jews per-se, it is hatred of the evil that is Zionism, just as lots of Russian soldiers hated Germans after the war, it was a symptom, a symptom of the German invasion of Russian land and killing of millions of Russians.

No exclusive group can persecute and kill large numbers of people outside that group and then claim that resulting counterviolence is unjustified, unexpected and based on racial prejudice.

Genocide is more than words, we have almost 40,000 people killed in Gaza, electricity, water, food, medicines and fuel all but ceased - that's genocide, that is without doubt hard to justify other than the motive being extermination of Palestinian resistance by exterminating Palestinians.

 

[rylah]

You speak as if this were some kind of war of liberation of Palestinian Jews under a Muslim yoke but we both know that was not the case. Jews in Palestine prior to Zionism never collectively organized with a view to nationalism. The vast majority had never even heard of Zionism and most of those who had wanted nothing to do with it.

Zionism emerged among European secular Jews, motivated by antisemitism in Europe not because of some perceived persecution of Jews by Arabs in Palestine. Zionism with British support turned its attention to Palestine, it was an external foreign ideology that eventually became imposed upon all Jews in Palestine, as you (should) know Zionist organizations in Palestine during the 1920s and 1930s even persecuted non-Zionist Jews, if you want to see the evidence just ask.

That's exactly what happened.

Zionism emerged in response to Arab pogroms against
the local Jewish communities throughout the Caliphate,
and expulsion for the 4 holy cities in the land of Israel.

There's plenty of historic record about Jewish
organization to re-constitute independence
in the land prior to modern Zionism.

Later, due to the Holocaust the main
concern was European antisemitism.
But the Zionist organization was in
response to the Arab pogroms.

What better proof of that
than the need to bring
up the Holocaust and
Inquisition as a proof
of Arab "tolerance"?

"For the Jews, the Damascus affair launched modern Jewish politics on an international scale, and for American Jews it represented their first effort at creating a distinctive political agenda. Just as the United States had used this affair to proclaim its presence on the global scale, so too did American Jews, in their newspapers and at mass meetings, announce to their coreligionists in France and England that they too ought to be thought of players in global Jewish diplomacy."

Damascus affair - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[toomuchtime_]

I have no idea what the intent was, as I said there's some difference of opinion about the translation, go and check, there's some interesting stuff written about it.

It's not sufficient though to use that speech as evidence that Arabs want to kill all Jews, it really isn't. Look at the history of Palestine, no trace of antisemitism, under Ottoman rule Jews migrated INTO Palestine to escape antisemitism IN Europe not Palestine.

I've seen no record of any mass exodus of Jews escaping Palestinian "antisemitism", no evidence of Arab extermination campaigns.

The claim that Palestinians are antisemitic is propaganda. There has been Arab hostility towards Zionism since shortly after WW1 and with good reason, just as there was hostility to Nazism emerging amongst Germany's neighbors in the 1930s.

Genocide is more than words, we have almost 40,000 people killed in Gaza, electricity, water, food, medicines and fuel all but ceased - that's genocide, that is without doubt hard to justify other than the motive being extermination of Palestinian resistance by exterminating Palestinians.

Again, not a single word of truth in your post. Antisemitism is the only rational explanation for the Arabs intense hatred of Jews and the only rational explanation for why you are so set on making a fool of yourself in this forum.

Jews had been relegated to being second class citizens in Muslim lands throughout the ME for centuries, so you raise the level of absurdity to a new level by claiming there was no antisemitism before 1920. Even the Ottoman Turks, who invited the Jews to settle in their empire when they were thrown out of European countries, had special laws discriminating against Jews. Hatred of Jews was long ago embodied in the Hadiths from which Hamas took inspiration when writing their charter.

The fact is that the League of Nations' mandate to the British to establish a Jewish homeland in Palestine that would not harm the interests of the Arabs living there posed no threat to the Arabs and antisemitism is the only rational explanation for the Arabs' determination to stop it regardless of the cost to themselves.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

That's exactly what happened.

Zionism emerged in response to Arab pogroms against
the local Jewish communities throughout the Caliphate,
and expulsion for the 4 holy cities in the land of Israel.

Zionism emerged in Europe though, among secular Jews. The Jews in Palestine at that time wanted nothing to do with the movement, the Haredi Jews even opposed Jewish immigration to Palestine in the late 19th century!

There's plenty of historic record about Jewish
organization to re-constitute independence
in the land prior to modern Zionism.

Please share it then.

Later, due to the Holocaust the main
concern was European antisemitism.
But the Zionist organization was in
response to the Arab pogroms.

Zionism emerged in Europe years before any Holocaust.
It's development later became intertwined with the goals of the Balfour declaration (Rothschild was a Zionist Jew by the way) and the British mandate in Palestine and later still it began to adopt characteristics similar to Nazism, that is racial supremacy, rapacious drive to seize territory and expel indigenous peoples and eventually an irrational animosity to those indigenous people.

What better proof of that
than the need to bring
up the Holocaust and
Inquisition as a proof
of Arab "tolerance"?

I explained already that the fact that Jews desired to move to Palestine at all, pretty much destroys any claim that it was a hotbed of antisemitism and pogroms against Jews. No sane Jew would move from Nazi Germany to Arab Palestine if the latter bore any resemblance to the former.

Damascus affair - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What does a persecution by Christians have to do with any of this? It's well know that antisemitism is largely a European Christian phenomenon, not Muslim.

 

[rylah]

Zionism emerged in Europe though, among secular Jews. The Jews in Palestine at that time wanted nothing to do with the movement, the Haredi Jews even opposed Jewish immigration to Palestine in the late 19th century!

Please share it then.

Zionism emerged in Europe years before any Holocaust.
It's development later became intertwined with the goals of the Balfour declaration (Rothschild was a Zionist Jew by the way) and the British mandate in Palestine and later still it began to adopt characteristics similar to Nazism, that is racial supremacy, rapacious drive to seize territory and expel indigenous peoples and eventually an irrational animosity to those indigenous people.

I explained already that the fact that Jews desired to move to Palestine at all, pretty much destroys any claim that it was a hotbed of antisemitism and pogroms against Jews. No sane Jew would move from Nazi Germany to Arab Palestine if the latter bore any resemblance to the former.

What does a persecution by Christians have to do with any of this? It's well know that antisemitism is largely a European Christian phenomenon, not Muslim.

Being ignorant is one thing, but taking pride in ignorance is another.

Modern- Zionism emerged in mid 19th century Morocco,
with Jewish leaders such as Rabbi Hayyim ben-Attar,
and through his grandson Rabbi Yehudah Bibas,
all the way to Herzl's grandfather.

Do you think you know anything
about the history and this war?

Judah Bibas - Proto-Zionist of Hebron

Rabbi Bibas was a pillar of the Hebron community and a pioneer in the repatriation of Jews in Israel.

en.hebron.org.il