Who are Dems Fooling with this "Additional Revenues" Nonsense?

[Toddsterpatriot]

So do you think before you post or are so you reflexively against taxes that you don't think and just type.

One of the argument against captial gains is that you are paying taxes on earnings that have already been taxed. Also, many such as hedge fund managers classify income as captial gains merely to escape income taxes. Those games would stop.

In terms of the capital export tax, if I have eliminated income tax exactly how would I be taxing earnins of foreign companies? I wouldn't. The only tax they would incur if they export the capital out out of the country. Other countries already have anti competitive requirements so I wouldn't worry about retaliation. They need access to our market and they have it. We aren't putting tariffs in place.

I'm reflexively against damaging taxes.

Another argument against capital gains taxes is that they retard the formation of capital.
You know capital gains aren't limited to hedge funds, right?
Or were you typing without thinking?

Any limits on what they could buy in this country to avoid the tax?

Payroll and income taxes retard the formation of capital too.

So perhaps we should tax them all equally?

Sounds good. 7.65% on income and capital gains sounds about right.
Corporate taxes too. Excellent idea!

 

[8537]

I'm reflexively against damaging taxes.

Another argument against capital gains taxes is that they retard the formation of capital.
You know capital gains aren't limited to hedge funds, right?
Or were you typing without thinking?

Any limits on what they could buy in this country to avoid the tax?

Payroll and income taxes retard the formation of capital too.

So perhaps we should tax them all equally?

Sounds good. 7.65% on income and capital gains sounds about right.
Corporate taxes too. Excellent idea!

Well, it's actually 15.3% on income - half of that is paid by the employer, so it's kind of a tax on employment. But the tax incidence isn't as much the point as the amount.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why should Buffett being paying "around 35%"?

That wasn't my quote, but if Buffett thinks rich people should pay more, he can write a check to the Treasury. No new legislation required.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Payroll and income taxes retard the formation of capital too.

So perhaps we should tax them all equally?

Sounds good. 7.65% on income and capital gains sounds about right.
Corporate taxes too. Excellent idea!

Well, it's actually 15.3% on income - half of that is paid by the employer, so it's kind of a tax on employment. But the tax incidence isn't as much the point as the amount.

Yes, I know that the employer pays half.
Let's push your new low rates.
I predict a boom in hiring.

 

[8537]

Sounds good. 7.65% on income and capital gains sounds about right.
Corporate taxes too. Excellent idea!

Well, it's actually 15.3% on income - half of that is paid by the employer, so it's kind of a tax on employment. But the tax incidence isn't as much the point as the amount.

Yes, I know that the employer pays half.
Let's push your new low rates.
I predict a boom in hiring.

If we actually collected 15.3% in effective rates on income to firms and individuals, tax revenues would increase.

 

[konradv]

The most ridiculous thing I heard was that closing loopholes would only be passed, if overall rates were cut to make it revenue neutral. That's like someone saying we'll only do spending cuts, only if there are increased expenditures in other areas!!!

Yeah, it's exactly like that. They are saying they aren't going to increase taxes, period. Real spending cuts are the only items on the table.

When are you drones going to get that through your thick skulls?

Interestingly enough the American people support higher taxes on the wealthy as part of the budget talks. Perhaps our elected representatives should do just that, represent the will of the people.

I suppose it's only off the table to the plutocrats.

The biggest reason is they way we finance elections. If we went to public financing, our representitives would have more time for OUR business, instead of essentially selling their votes to whomever can bundle the largest amount of campaign contributions.

 

[The Rabbi]

Well, it's actually 15.3% on income - half of that is paid by the employer, so it's kind of a tax on employment. But the tax incidence isn't as much the point as the amount.

Yes, I know that the employer pays half.
Let's push your new low rates.
I predict a boom in hiring.

If we actually collected 15.3% in effective rates on income to firms and individuals, tax revenues would increase.

So you're in favor of lowering the corporate tax rate and closing deductions, right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, it's actually 15.3% on income - half of that is paid by the employer, so it's kind of a tax on employment. But the tax incidence isn't as much the point as the amount.

Yes, I know that the employer pays half.
Let's push your new low rates.
I predict a boom in hiring.

If we actually collected 15.3% in effective rates on income to firms and individuals, tax revenues would increase.

Great! Let's put a 15.3% flat tax with no deductions on all income, capital gains and dividends. Our economy might even grow quickly enough for Obama to squeak out a win.

 

[8537]

Yes, I know that the employer pays half.
Let's push your new low rates.
I predict a boom in hiring.

If we actually collected 15.3% in effective rates on income to firms and individuals, tax revenues would increase.

Great! Let's put a 15.3% flat tax with no deductions on all income, capital gains and dividends.

I don't love the idea, but I think I'd prefer it over the current mess of subsidies and credits.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If we actually collected 15.3% in effective rates on income to firms and individuals, tax revenues would increase.

Great! Let's put a 15.3% flat tax with no deductions on all income, capital gains and dividends.

I don't love the idea, but I think I'd prefer it over the current mess of subsidies and credits.

Congress would hate treating everyone equally, it takes away their power.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Why should Buffett being paying "around 35%"?

Considering most people are paying 28 percent, he should pay AT LEAST that.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

if you like higher taxes, then say that, calling them "additional revenues" or "revenue enhancements" is douchey and ridiculous

you don't hear those of us that favor spending cuts calling them "outlay reductions"

Gee.....what would Lil' Dumbya do??

​

 

[The Rabbi]

Considering most people are paying 28 percent, he should pay AT LEAST that.

Why?

 

[kiwiman127]

I would guess that most if not all of Buffet's income come from investments, so most/all of his tax rate is at 15% before deductions/write offs; etc, much like the top percentile
So because he's in the Privilege Class and thanks to laws written by the tools of the Privilege Class he should shoulder less responsibility than those who are your plain check-to-check working Joes/Janes?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I would guess that most if not all of Buffet's income come from investments, so most/all of his tax rate is at 15% before deductions/write offs; etc, much like the top percentile
So because he's in the Privilege Class and thanks to laws written by the tools of the Privilege Class he should shoulder less responsibility than those who are your plain check-to-check working Joes/Janes?

He shouldn't shoulder less responsibility.
He should pay the same rate of payroll tax that everyone does.
He should pay the same rate on his capital gains and dividends that everyone does.
He should pay 35% on the income over $373,650.
He should pay 33% on the income between $171,850 and $373,650.
He should pay 28% on the income between $82,400 and $171,850.
He should pay 25% on the income between $34,000 and $82,400.
He should pay 15% on the income between $8,375 and $34,000.
He should pay 10% on income between $0 and $8,375.

 

[kiwiman127]

How does the wealth/income inequality cause the Crash?

What do you mean Goldman and Soros have nothing to do with your post?
If the Dems are only for the little guy and the Republicans are only for billionaires and big business, what are those morons at Goldman doing supporting the Dems?
Doesn't Soros know the Dems he throws money at want to raise his rates and only the Republicans support him?

Stick it to Main Street? You mean lowering our highest in the world corporate tax rate won't help new businesses hire more Main Streeters?
I am in favor of ending corporate welfare, ethanol subsidies, farm subsidies as well as closing the borders so Main Streeters don't have to compete with illegals for jobs.
Is that enough sticking it to big business for now?

If you went to the link I provided or even read the excerpt, you'd have a clue. Don't be lazy. Or why not prove me wrong?

Yes, American corporation taxes are high but you fail to mention that the US also has the most loopholes in the world to the point that many corporations don't even pay taxes.

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes
Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

I'm outa here, as I have company on the way. But, I'll be back.

I read the excerpt about inequality. Didn't see any proof of your claims, sorry.
If most companies pay no taxes, we could cut the rates and not lose much revenue, right?
Thanks for the link to the study.........check it out.

" The GAO said corporations escaped paying federal income taxes for a variety of reasons including operating losses"

Yeah, losing money makes paying taxes moot.
And all the talk about revenue, but I didn't see anything about profits.

From the link that you said you read:

"The large and growing disparity of wealth between the well-to-do and the middle-income citizens made the U.S. economy unstable. For an economy to function properly, total demand must equal total supply. In an economy with such disparate distribution of income it is not assured that demand will always equal supply. Essentially what happened in the 1920's was that there was an oversupply of goods. It was not that the surplus products of industrialized society were not wanted, but rather that those whose needs were not satiated could not afford more, whereas the wealthy were satiated by spending only a small portion of their income."
General History: The Great Depression, stock market speculation, main causes of the great depression

And as our economy has continued to be dragged down the principle of supply & demand is parallel with the years just prior to the Great Crash. Why? The Wealth Gap is at the same level it was at just prior to the Great Crash. The Middle Class's share of the US economy is at a record low.
Trickle down has not happened and that the theory and practice of trickle down has in fact helped create the economic mess we are in today. It's simple math. Over two-thirds of our economy is driven by consumer spending. But the consumer class (the Middle Class) has less and less expendable income due to flat wages that has produced the record Wealth Gap to the point that the Middle Class's piece of the US economy is at a record low.
It's pretty simple stuff.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you went to the link I provided or even read the excerpt, you'd have a clue. Don't be lazy. Or why not prove me wrong?

Yes, American corporation taxes are high but you fail to mention that the US also has the most loopholes in the world to the point that many corporations don't even pay taxes.

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes
Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

I'm outa here, as I have company on the way. But, I'll be back.

I read the excerpt about inequality. Didn't see any proof of your claims, sorry.
If most companies pay no taxes, we could cut the rates and not lose much revenue, right?
Thanks for the link to the study.........check it out.

" The GAO said corporations escaped paying federal income taxes for a variety of reasons including operating losses"

Yeah, losing money makes paying taxes moot.
And all the talk about revenue, but I didn't see anything about profits.

From the link that you said you read:

"The large and growing disparity of wealth between the well-to-do and the middle-income citizens made the U.S. economy unstable. For an economy to function properly, total demand must equal total supply. In an economy with such disparate distribution of income it is not assured that demand will always equal supply. Essentially what happened in the 1920's was that there was an oversupply of goods. It was not that the surplus products of industrialized society were not wanted, but rather that those whose needs were not satiated could not afford more, whereas the wealthy were satiated by spending only a small portion of their income."
General History: The Great Depression, stock market speculation, main causes of the great depression

And as our economy has continued to be dragged down the principle of supply & demand is parallel with the years just prior to the Great Crash. Why? The Wealth Gap is at the same level it was at just prior to the Great Crash. The Middle Class's share of the US economy is at a record low.
Trickle down has not happened and that the theory and practice of trickle down has in fact helped create the economic mess we are in today. It's simple math. Over two-thirds of our economy is driven by consumer spending. But the consumer class (the Middle Class) has less and less expendable income due to flat wages that has produced the record Wealth Gap to the point that the Middle Class's piece of the US economy is at a record low.
It's pretty simple stuff.

Yeah, some joker making a claim about income equality isn't the same thing as proof.
What's trickle down? Do you have a definition?

 

[kiwiman127]

I would guess that most if not all of Buffet's income come from investments, so most/all of his tax rate is at 15% before deductions/write offs; etc, much like the top percentile
So because he's in the Privilege Class and thanks to laws written by the tools of the Privilege Class he should shoulder less responsibility than those who are your plain check-to-check working Joes/Janes?

He shouldn't shoulder less responsibility.
He should pay the same rate of payroll tax that everyone does.
He should pay the same rate on his capital gains and dividends that everyone does.
He should pay 35% on the income over $373,650.
He should pay 33% on the income between $171,850 and $373,650.
He should pay 28% on the income between $82,400 and $171,850.
He should pay 25% on the income between $34,000 and $82,400.
He should pay 15% on the income between $8,375 and $34,000.
He should pay 10% on income between $0 and $8,375.

Toddster, you didn't answer the question.
I always thought that equality was part of the Bil of Rights or does that apply to those who aren't in the Privilege Class. That's why I believe in a flat tax.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I would guess that most if not all of Buffet's income come from investments, so most/all of his tax rate is at 15% before deductions/write offs; etc, much like the top percentile
So because he's in the Privilege Class and thanks to laws written by the tools of the Privilege Class he should shoulder less responsibility than those who are your plain check-to-check working Joes/Janes?

He shouldn't shoulder less responsibility.
He should pay the same rate of payroll tax that everyone does.
He should pay the same rate on his capital gains and dividends that everyone does.
He should pay 35% on the income over $373,650.
He should pay 33% on the income between $171,850 and $373,650.
He should pay 28% on the income between $82,400 and $171,850.
He should pay 25% on the income between $34,000 and $82,400.
He should pay 15% on the income between $8,375 and $34,000.
He should pay 10% on income between $0 and $8,375.

Toddster, you didn't answer the question.
I always thought that equality was part of the Bil of Rights or does that apply to those who aren't in the Privilege Class. That's why I believe in a flat tax.

You said he shouldn't shoulder less responsibility.
I showed you the rate he pays, how is that less responsibility?

 

[kiwiman127]

He shouldn't shoulder less responsibility.
He should pay the same rate of payroll tax that everyone does.
He should pay the same rate on his capital gains and dividends that everyone does.
He should pay 35% on the income over $373,650.
He should pay 33% on the income between $171,850 and $373,650.
He should pay 28% on the income between $82,400 and $171,850.
He should pay 25% on the income between $34,000 and $82,400.
He should pay 15% on the income between $8,375 and $34,000.
He should pay 10% on income between $0 and $8,375.

Toddster, you didn't answer the question.
I always thought that equality was part of the Bil of Rights or does that apply to those who aren't in the Privilege Class. That's why I believe in a flat tax.

You said he shouldn't shoulder less responsibility.
I showed you the rate he pays, how is that less responsibility?

Good point. Problem is, as a majority of his income is via Captial Gains he isn't shouldering what Jan and Joe Mainstreat America are. This clealry points out how our system is shewed for the wealthy. Where's the equality?