Which should have first priority: The woman, the fertilized egg, or the fetus?

[Cecilie1200]

It would be extremely helpful if anti-choice zealots cared about children after they are born.

You advocate killing babies. There's literally no accusation you can level at us that's EVER going to sink us to that level of evil, or raise you out of it.

 

[KGB]

Why is it that hysterics bemoaning the "overpopulation problem" always want to solve it by someone ELSE dying? Why don't YOU go first?

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

Wars happen for many reasons, and how many of the US's wars have been started by the US?

When was the last time the US was attacked by another country? 1941. That was the last time the US went to war for defensive reasons.

For example with the Iraq War in 2003 the US lied, claimed it was about something it wasn't. It was all about getting at OPEC, and it worked and the US has become richer because of that war.

Executions are needed because you're "pro-life"? The US has executions and one of the largest prison populations in the world per capita AND higher crime rates. Louisiana is the prison capital of the WORLD, and has the highest murder rate in the US.

It's clearly not working, is it?

Let's try this.
Texas has executed 7 people this year.
Georgia has executed 2 people this year.
Alabama has executed 2 people this year.
Florida has executed one person this year.

Alabama is 3rd in the list of states by murder rate.
Georgia is 14th.
Florida is 22nd
Texas is 23rd.

Now, according to your logic they should be 47th, 48th, 49th and 50th. Yet they're all in the top half. Why?

Yes, you have guns because there are assholes.

I'm not asking for reasons why these things exist.

How can someone be "pro-life" and then support executions. That's a massive contradiction. Same with wars.

This is the issue here. You're talking about saving lives and then talking about ending lives.

The problem is the abortion issue is a religious issue. There's no other reason to oppose abortions in the modern world.

Back in the day babies died in their thousands. In bad years countries could see their population dwindle. The plague in Europe was killing an estimated 30% - 60% of the people.

In 1730 75% of children died before the age of 5.

Children were vitally important for a society. Humans weren't progressing during the dark ages.

But this isn't the dark ages.

Today we have a population that has never, ever been reached before. We've a higher population today than yesterday, and yesterday was the highest we'd ever reached.

We don't need to bring babies into this world just for them to live in misery just with the hope they'd make it to adulthood and reproduce. We can reproduce like rabbits even with abortion.

If we continue on at this rate, we, as humans, are going to suffer. We're already having a massively negative impact on the oceans, which are massively important to life on this planet.

This is where we have to be a little philosophical.

Here's a question I want you to answer.

Is it better to die of starvation or better to die with a bullet to the head in war?

This situation is a little different, but we need to control the population of the world. So abortion becomes a necessary tool. Let's make sure those who are born have the best possible chances.

It's like playing a game where you have limited space but have to make the most of that limited space.

Executions occur after due process & countless appeals for the condemned. It’s a well spelled out process & part of our legal code. Last time I checked, we don’t have state-sponsored death squads roaming the streets indiscriminately killing people.

Tell me, what crime did an unborn child commit to deserve death without hearing, without appeal?

Abortion is barbaric & an affront to our society. The Founding Fathers would recoil in horror if they were alive for Roe vs Wade. Over 40 million of our own people slaughtered for the sake of convenience....it’s disgusting.

 

[beagle9]

Which comes first, the chicken or the egg ?? The egg of course.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So we should never have abortion because it's someone else dying, even though they not really alive.

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

Wars happen for many reasons, and how many of the US's wars have been started by the US?

When was the last time the US was attacked by another country? 1941. That was the last time the US went to war for defensive reasons.

For example with the Iraq War in 2003 the US lied, claimed it was about something it wasn't. It was all about getting at OPEC, and it worked and the US has become richer because of that war.

Executions are needed because you're "pro-life"? The US has executions and one of the largest prison populations in the world per capita AND higher crime rates. Louisiana is the prison capital of the WORLD, and has the highest murder rate in the US.

It's clearly not working, is it?

Let's try this.
Texas has executed 7 people this year.
Georgia has executed 2 people this year.
Alabama has executed 2 people this year.
Florida has executed one person this year.

Alabama is 3rd in the list of states by murder rate.
Georgia is 14th.
Florida is 22nd
Texas is 23rd.

Now, according to your logic they should be 47th, 48th, 49th and 50th. Yet they're all in the top half. Why?

Yes, you have guns because there are assholes.

I'm not asking for reasons why these things exist.

How can someone be "pro-life" and then support executions. That's a massive contradiction. Same with wars.

This is the issue here. You're talking about saving lives and then talking about ending lives.

The problem is the abortion issue is a religious issue. There's no other reason to oppose abortions in the modern world.

Back in the day babies died in their thousands. In bad years countries could see their population dwindle. The plague in Europe was killing an estimated 30% - 60% of the people.

In 1730 75% of children died before the age of 5.

Children were vitally important for a society. Humans weren't progressing during the dark ages.

But this isn't the dark ages.

Today we have a population that has never, ever been reached before. We've a higher population today than yesterday, and yesterday was the highest we'd ever reached.

We don't need to bring babies into this world just for them to live in misery just with the hope they'd make it to adulthood and reproduce. We can reproduce like rabbits even with abortion.

If we continue on at this rate, we, as humans, are going to suffer. We're already having a massively negative impact on the oceans, which are massively important to life on this planet.

This is where we have to be a little philosophical.

Here's a question I want you to answer.

Is it better to die of starvation or better to die with a bullet to the head in war?

This situation is a little different, but we need to control the population of the world. So abortion becomes a necessary tool. Let's make sure those who are born have the best possible chances.

It's like playing a game where you have limited space but have to make the most of that limited space.

Executions occur after due process & countless appeals for the condemned. It’s a well spelled out process & part of our legal code. Last time I checked, we don’t have state-sponsored death squads roaming the streets indiscriminately killing people.

Tell me, what crime did an unborn child commit to deserve death without hearing, without appeal?

Abortion is barbaric & an affront to our society. The Founding Fathers would recoil in horror if they were alive for Roe vs Wade. Over 40 million of our own people slaughtered for the sake of convenience....it’s disgusting.

Ah, because executions are done after due process, it's not taking away life? What?

No one innocent has ever been executed in the US?

What crime did a fetus commit? None. What crime did a cow commit?

Well, you think abortions are barbaric.

How many billions of animals die a year to keep the human appetite sated?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Biology would disagree with you.

And we shouldn’t have abortion because it’s murder & barabaric.

But we should have war, executions and guns because.....

War occurs for many reasons. There is just war & unjust war. If you are attacked you have the right to self defense.

We have executions because there needs to be a deterrent to criminal behavior & to see justice served. However this isn’t summary execution, it follows due process.

We have guns because there are assholes in the world who covet what other people have or seek to do harm to others. It’s also a tool meant to hunt & to protect a nation.

Abortion serves no need other than the fact it offers convenience. Yes I get the whole rape, incest & life to the mother (those are reasonable), but a person who uses it as a birth control method is barbaric.

Wars happen for many reasons, and how many of the US's wars have been started by the US?

When was the last time the US was attacked by another country? 1941. That was the last time the US went to war for defensive reasons.

For example with the Iraq War in 2003 the US lied, claimed it was about something it wasn't. It was all about getting at OPEC, and it worked and the US has become richer because of that war.

Executions are needed because you're "pro-life"? The US has executions and one of the largest prison populations in the world per capita AND higher crime rates. Louisiana is the prison capital of the WORLD, and has the highest murder rate in the US.

It's clearly not working, is it?

Let's try this.
Texas has executed 7 people this year.
Georgia has executed 2 people this year.
Alabama has executed 2 people this year.
Florida has executed one person this year.

Alabama is 3rd in the list of states by murder rate.
Georgia is 14th.
Florida is 22nd
Texas is 23rd.

Now, according to your logic they should be 47th, 48th, 49th and 50th. Yet they're all in the top half. Why?

Yes, you have guns because there are assholes.

I'm not asking for reasons why these things exist.

How can someone be "pro-life" and then support executions. That's a massive contradiction. Same with wars.

This is the issue here. You're talking about saving lives and then talking about ending lives.

The problem is the abortion issue is a religious issue. There's no other reason to oppose abortions in the modern world.

Back in the day babies died in their thousands. In bad years countries could see their population dwindle. The plague in Europe was killing an estimated 30% - 60% of the people.

In 1730 75% of children died before the age of 5.

Children were vitally important for a society. Humans weren't progressing during the dark ages.

But this isn't the dark ages.

Today we have a population that has never, ever been reached before. We've a higher population today than yesterday, and yesterday was the highest we'd ever reached.

We don't need to bring babies into this world just for them to live in misery just with the hope they'd make it to adulthood and reproduce. We can reproduce like rabbits even with abortion.

If we continue on at this rate, we, as humans, are going to suffer. We're already having a massively negative impact on the oceans, which are massively important to life on this planet.

This is where we have to be a little philosophical.

Here's a question I want you to answer.

Is it better to die of starvation or better to die with a bullet to the head in war?

This situation is a little different, but we need to control the population of the world. So abortion becomes a necessary tool. Let's make sure those who are born have the best possible chances.

It's like playing a game where you have limited space but have to make the most of that limited space.

Executions occur after due process & countless appeals for the condemned. It’s a well spelled out process & part of our legal code. Last time I checked, we don’t have state-sponsored death squads roaming the streets indiscriminately killing people.

Tell me, what crime did an unborn child commit to deserve death without hearing, without appeal?

Abortion is barbaric & an affront to our society. The Founding Fathers would recoil in horror if they were alive for Roe vs Wade. Over 40 million of our own people slaughtered for the sake of convenience....it’s disgusting.

Ah, because executions are done after due process, it's not taking away life? What?

No one innocent has ever been executed in the US?

What crime did a fetus commit? None. What crime did a cow commit?

Well, you think abortions are barbaric.

How many billions of animals die a year to keep the human appetite sated?

Google "food chain"

 

[Lakhota]

Women make the decision!

 

[mikegriffith1]

Which should have first priority: a person's right to control his own property as he sees fit or the person's partially human property, which is not fully human and is not capable of making an informed decision on the matter and is not capable of surviving on his/her own in a civilized manner? It is both amazing and sad to see the parallels between the antebellum pro-slavery arguments and the modern pro-abortion arguments. The core of both is to deny the humanity of the victim.

 

[dspahn]

I say we start by asking the “Fetus” which is really called a “baby”... are we asking about the well-being over a long time for the woman or are we talking about a hasty decision being made in a moment of crisis? From what I have heard, the best thing to do is sit the crisis woman down and help her figure out possibilities for the future so we slow down and get past the panic. Prioritize all three by looking at the long-term best option. FWIW, I am pro-life...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikegriffith1]

Women make the decision!

Slaveholders make the decision! Neither the slave nor the baby has any rights because they are not fully human! So slaves and babies have no say in how they are treated or if they even get to live!

You refuse to admit the medical fact that a baby is not "part of the woman's body." The baby is IN the woman's body but he or she has their own DNA, their own blood supply, their own heart beat, their own brain and brain waves, their own body, their own arms, legs, feet, eyes, toes, etc., etc.

 

[Lakhota]

The woman has first priority! Her mental/physical/financial health come first. It's her choice. It's her right.

 

[Chuz Life]

The woman has first priority! Her mental/physical/financial health come first. It's her choice. It's her right.

Can you explain why a woman's rights should not begin when her life does?

A man's?

I didn't think so.

 

[22lcidw]

The woman has first priority! Her mental/physical/financial health come first. It's her choice. It's her right.

Can you explain why a woman's rights should not begin when her life does?

A man's?

I didn't think so.

Its called slutosis! Only whores can give us a million abortions a year. Spreading those legs without any guilt at all for personal pleasure or thinking some guy is going to stick with them is ludicrous. A million a year. Now there are people who live by laws passed down for thousands of years as humans learned civility and ways of living through responsible ways. It may have been more boring and tenacious in male/female relationships but most people bought into this with hetero marriage even with flaws. Now understand this. Most men would die for a woman at one time. Get it. In an imperfect world most men would defend women. Feminism through that away. Only the human ingram that males defend females in our DNA keeps this up. I would not dfend any of those extreme feminists. I would watch someone or tens of thousands or hundrds of thousands of males take a knife and slice their faces up as to their selfish ways taking more from the system then it can provide to others. They are destroying males. Some need it. And it can be dealt with in other ways. You can't have all to your own ladies. Very few of you have had a real beatdown in life.

 

[SweetSue92]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

Dumb poll. There is no "priority". You don't kill one for the convenience of another. That's called murder. It's illegal in ALL civilized societies.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Which should come first--the slave buyer, the slave trader, or the slave? You cannot pretend to be a civilized person and then turn around and support elective abortion. The sin of abortion makes the sin of slavery look like child's play.

 

[Lakhota]

Which should come first--the slave buyer, the slave trader, or the slave? You cannot pretend to be a civilized person and then turn around and support elective abortion. The sin of abortion makes the sin of slavery look like child's play.

No applicable. Sin is a superstitious religious term. We are governed by a Godless Constitution - not some goofy Bible. A woman is free to have as many abortions as she wishes - for whatever reason.

 

[JWBooth]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

That would be idiotic politics as we need birth control.

Most of what we call "birth control" prevents conception. Examples are barriers (condoms, diaphragms), anti-ovulation, (the pill), and ye olde time methods such as the rhythm method, "pull out and pray" and "no, use the other hole"

Fellatio is a perfectly acceptable alternative.

 

[JoeMoma]

Problems is the pro-choice don't give the unborn any priority what so ever. The unborn are the voiceless unseen.

 

[skews13]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

Without the woman, you don’t have an egg.

Without the man, the egg doesn’t get fertilized.

According to your bible God made the man first with no eggs involved

According to that same bible God made the woman from the mans rib

Doesn’t sound to me like your well versed in either biology or religion

 

[martybegan]

Life begins at conception. If it begins it was God's will...and so the fertilized egg has first priority. If woman does not want the child...put it up for adoption.

That would be idiotic politics as we need birth control.

Most of what we call "birth control" prevents conception. Examples are barriers (condoms, diaphragms), anti-ovulation, (the pill), and ye olde time methods such as the rhythm method, "pull out and pray" and "no, use the other hole"

Fellatio is a perfectly acceptable alternative.

I believe that falls under "using another hole"

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a sincere poll. I would appreciate honest answers. If you're willing, I would also appreciate your reasons. I will not criticize your choice. I would just honestly like to know where USMB posters stand on this issue.

NOTE: I know there are many possible variables, but this poll assumes "typical" circumstances. In other words, this is a superficial poll that assumes "normal/average" circumstances - meaning no rape, incest, health, deformity, financial, or other extenuating issues.

Dumb poll. There is no "priority". You don't kill one for the convenience of another. That's called murder. It's illegal in ALL civilized societies.

No, I can accept that there's a heirarchy of priorities. Not all lives have the same claim upon us, depending on a variety of factors.

The problem with the poll is twofold. First, it assumes that there's a blanket priority that always applies; second, Lakhota clearly assumes that IF you think the woman's life takes precedence on the priority heirarchy at any time, for any reason, that somehow means that the baby is "not alive".

I mean, if I were in a burning building with Lakhota and one of my children and I could only save one of them, Lakhota'd be a charcoal briquette. That doesn't mean Lakhota isn't - technically - a living human being. It just means she has next to no claim on my priorities, while my children are the most important people in the world to me.