Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[hobelim]

You are talking in platitudes. Trying to sound intelligent. Adam became mortal when he ate the fruit. He became subject to physical death. He also was separated from God which is called a spiritual death. The first spiritual death can be overcome through acceptance of the atonement of Jesus Christ and receive all the necessary ordinances for forgiveness and exaltation in the Celestial Glory of Heaven. That’s when a person partakes the fruit of the Tree of Life (Jesus Christ)

I'm not trying to sound intelligent. I pointed out that they were not immortal in Eden because it says so clearly when A&E were cast out of eden and banned from the tree of life before they could eat of it and so live forever. If you are trying to sound irrational you're doing a great job of it.


Treating a fairy tale as if it was a historical document. What have you done to your children? Damn

 

[Cougarbear]

I'm not trying to sound intelligent. I pointed out that they were not immortal in Eden because it says so clearly when A&E were cast out of eden and banned from the tree of life before they could eat of it and so live forever. If you are trying to sound irrational you're doing a great job of it.


Treating a fairy tale as if it was a historical document. What have you done to your children? Damn

The tree of life fruit is only eaten while in a state of mortality. That tree was not available for them while in the Garden and in the state of innocence and immortality.
The words you keep posting does not say they could die if they did not eat the fruit. It simply doesn’t. The tree of life comes up after eating the tree of knowledge. Something else not stated is how long they lived in the Garden before being tempted. Could have been thousands of years.

 

[hobelim]

The words you keep posting does not say they could die if they did not eat the fruit. It simply doesn’t.

Yes it does. If they were banished from Eden before they ate the fruit of the tree of life because if they did they would live forever then they were not immortal in the first place. Its simple logic dear

They died the very same death that you died, and for the same exact reason. Smarten up!

This ain't no fairy tale.

 

[Cougarbear]

You cannot comprehend what you read. You use “if” which didn’t happen. They ate the fruit while in the Garden. At that moment, they knew their nakedness and that hey had sinned. They had to have fallen into a mortal state in order to know they were naked and transgressed the commandment. They were then banished from the Garden and could not on their own return to eat the tree of life to save themselves. A Savior was provided for them and all of the children and fold of Adam.

 

[Meriweather]

No they are not, and what about hail Mary's and our fathers how does that go along with,
Matthew 6:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV) And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

Let's have a little history lesson on prayers and on vain repetitions. First vain repetitions:

Focus on “vain”. The heathen were not praying to God, but to carvings of idols…all in vain as wood and stone engravings can do nothing and thus all such prayers are in vain. There is at least one Old Testament story about this, how wooden/stone images could do nothing, but God could—and did.

Jews--and Jesus--did recite repetitive prayers.

The 150 Psalms come to mind. Some Jews did/do pray all 150 of these Psalms daily, weekly, monthly. The Psalms themselves are often repetitive. Psalm 136 said at Passover repeats the same line again and again. So did other Psalms Jesus was praying on the cross. Remember Jesus' parable about the persistent widow and the instructions not to stop praying.

The 150 prayers of the Rosary came about because in the early Church not many had copies of all 150 Psalms. The Psalms are a great meditation for meditation on God's great works in Old Testament Times. The Rosary was used as background as people focused/meditated on events in the life of Jesus as told by the New Testament Gospels.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the Book of Daniel use repetitive prayer while in the fiery furnace.

Repetitive Prayer in heaven - Reference the Book of Revelation...

Revelation 4:8-11 “The four living creatures … day and night … never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

And whenever the living creatures sing these praises, the twenty-four elders around God’s throne in Heaven also fall down before him … singing, ‘Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you did create all things, and by your will they existed and were created.’
Now let's address praying to/with Mary and the Saints in Revelation 5:8...

“The twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each … with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

Note the twenty-four elders and the saints do not answer prayers, but take them before the Lord.

 

[Meriweather]

But Catholicism is works based salvation! Also worship Mary as co redemptirix

Jesus is the way of salvation. He said those who love him, keep his commandments. We are participants of salvation, not workers of salvation.

Jesus is the one redeemer and the one mediator between God and mankind. Mary simply had a role. We went through this in another thread not too long ago. Our story of salvation goes back to Genesis and the Garden of Eden when Eve disobeyed God and got Adam to follow suit. Paul called Jesus the new Adam, because of his obedience to God. In the same way, Mary can be considered the new Eve, because Mary chose to obey God.

If both woman and man had roles in the fall of mankind, didn't both have roles in the redemption of mankind? Sure...BUT (big however here) Mary was only fully human while God himself took on the role of man in Jesus redeeming mankind from their sins. Jesus was fully human--and also fully divine. The Word of God--God himself--redeemed mankind and open the way of salvation. In this, he had the full cooperation of the human woman in her role as woman. No human has the power of redemption, but God does. So, nope, no "co redemptirix" whatever that even is.

 

[hadit]

That is totally NOT true. A person who has been re-generated can fall back into EGREGIOUS sin and lose his/her soul

Example: I believe he was called the I-5 killer.. Well, he was a serial killers Randy Woodfield was "born again" and.. well, as you can see..................

Randall Woodfield: The Star Football Player Who Became a Serial Killer

Star football player Randall Woodfield seemed have everything going for him. But darkness lurked beneath the surface.

the-line-up.com

Even the evil can do good works.

 

[ninja007]

That's just a distortion of what Catholics actually believe. And Protestants need to check out something in that Book they claim to believe in

namely Philippians 2:12 where it says to

"WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling" You won't get to Heaven doing NOTHING for your soul or for the souls of others.

that verse doesnt mean what you think it does.

 

[Frankenstein]

"Faith without works is as lifeless as a corpse without breath." James 2:26

Works is a byproduct of faith!

 

[Frankenstein]

uh.. excuse me??! You protestants were the ones saying Catholicism is works - based.. I myself never said or implied that. . even though I will say that works are required to be saved. That doesn't mean the works themselves save, but Protestants just LOVE accusing Catholics!

And please do not tell me what the Bible means. I have the best authorities one can find in the world to show me the way. And don't do that All we Need is Jesus stuff because Jesus's Words are like anyone else's in the sense that they can be twisted or manipulated to mean just about anything a person wants them to mean

30,000+ different "churches" says it all

Works to be saved makes the cross unnecessary, works are a byproduct of faith. I am simply stating the Biblical version of salvation!
Salvation, according to the Bible, is solely by grace and faith, not by human effort or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). While not denying the value of good works, throughout our history the truth has been that salvation is only by grace through faith.

 

[Frankenstein]

Let's have a little history lesson on prayers and on vain repetitions. First vain repetitions:

Focus on “vain”. The heathen were not praying to God, but to carvings of idols…all in vain as wood and stone engravings can do nothing and thus all such prayers are in vain. There is at least one Old Testament story about this, how wooden/stone images could do nothing, but God could—and did.

Jews--and Jesus--did recite repetitive prayers.

The 150 Psalms come to mind. Some Jews did/do pray all 150 of these Psalms daily, weekly, monthly. The Psalms themselves are often repetitive. Psalm 136 said at Passover repeats the same line again and again. So did other Psalms Jesus was praying on the cross. Remember Jesus' parable about the persistent widow and the instructions not to stop praying.

The 150 prayers of the Rosary came about because in the early Church not many had copies of all 150 Psalms. The Psalms are a great meditation for meditation on God's great works in Old Testament Times. The Rosary was used as background as people focused/meditated on events in the life of Jesus as told by the New Testament Gospels.

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the Book of Daniel use repetitive prayer while in the fiery furnace.

Repetitive Prayer in heaven - Reference the Book of Revelation...

Revelation 4:8-11 “The four living creatures … day and night … never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

And whenever the living creatures sing these praises, the twenty-four elders around God’s throne in Heaven also fall down before him … singing, ‘Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you did create all things, and by your will they existed and were created.’
Now let's address praying to/with Mary and the Saints in Revelation 5:8...

“The twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each … with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

Note the twenty-four elders and the saints do not answer prayers, but take them before the Lord.

cite your source

 

[Meriweather]

cite your source

I did. The Bible.

Works to be saved makes the cross unnecessary, works are a byproduct of faith. I am simply stating the Biblical version of salvation!
Salvation, according to the Bible, is solely by grace and faith, not by human effort or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). While not denying the value of good works, throughout our history the truth has been that salvation is only by grace through faith.

Think about this: Worship, prayer, commandments, salvation is for us. Your idea of good works earning salvation was never the case until Luther, a troubled man, apparently jumped to the conclusion that was what was needed from him.

No one earns salvation from good works. Good works is salvation. Think about it.

 

[Frankenstein]

I did. The Bible.

Think about this: Worship, prayer, commandments, salvation is for us. Your idea of good works earning salvation was never the case until Luther, a troubled man, apparently jumped to the conclusion that was what was needed from him.

No one earns salvation from good works. Good works is salvation. Think about it.

So then you agree that works isn't necessary for salvation, but is an indication of one saved!

 

[Meriweather]

but is an indication of one saved!

Not quite what I am saying.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The tree of life fruit is only eaten while in a state of mortality. That tree was not available for them while in the Garden and in the state of innocence and immortality.

Why do you state opinions as though they are irrefutable facts (?)--especially when you were not there.

 

[forkintheroad7]

No they are not, and what about hail Mary's and our fathers how does that go along with,
Matthew 6:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV) And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do.

there is repetitious prayer and there is VAIN repetitious prayer.

Is it vain to say God's name over and over? Is it vain to focus on the life of Christ as the rosary directs our minds to do as we pray through the beads?

Not all repetitious prayer is bad, to be sure. Jesus even promoted repetitious prayer. Check out the story of the persistent widow and the unjust judge.

 

[forkintheroad7]

​

​

Jesus recommends repetitious prayer (just not VAIN repetition)​

​

The Parable of the Persistent Widow​

18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

 

[buttercup]

Not all repetitious prayer is bad, to be sure. Jesus even promoted repetitious prayer. Check out the story of the persistent widow and the unjust judge.

^ That is not an example of "repetitious prayer", not even close. That is an example of PERSISTENCE.

We can come to God daily with the same request, just as the widow kept going to the judge with the same request, until he finally gave her what she requested.

But that's not at all the same as praying (in one session) with repeating words which are needless and religious, like some sort of magic chant.

Prayer is basically talking to God. God wants us to talk to him in an honest, sincere way, from our heart, not in a formulaic or religious way. Would you talk to anyone that way? Repeating the same words over and over, like a chant?

See, this is one of the reasons why I never went back to the Catholic church once I became a believer. It's just WAY too religious. Too much ritual and tradition, too many needless bells and whistles. That is not what God wants. In fact, Jesus had the highest criticism for the religious leaders of that day who cared more about man-made traditions than God and truth.

 

[forkintheroad7]

^ That is not an example of "repetitious prayer", not even close. That is an example of PERSISTENCE.

We can come to God daily with the same request, just as the widow kept going to the judge with the same request, until he finally gave her what she requested.

But that's not at all the same as praying (in one session) with repeating words which are needless and religious, like some sort of magic chant.

Prayer is basically talking to God. God wants us to talk to him in an honest, sincere way, from our heart, not in a formulaic or religious way. Would you talk to anyone that way? Repeating the same words over and over, like a chant?

See, this is one of the reasons why I never went back to the Catholic church once I became a believer. It's just WAY too religious. Too much ritual and tradition, too many needless bells and whistles. That is not what God wants. In fact, Jesus had the highest criticism for the religious leaders of that day who cared more about man-made traditions than God and truth.

I stand by what I said

You are wrong and you likely know it. But you don't care as long as you can express hatred for the Original Church Christ founded.. wonder how that will work out for you on Judgment Day?

There is no salvation outside the Church CHRIST founded. There is only ONE of those, btw.. not 30,000+

 

[buttercup]

I stand by what I said

You are wrong and you likely know it. But you don't care as long as you can express hatred for the Original Church Christ founded.. wonder how that will work out for you on Judgment Day?

There is no salvation outside the Church CHRIST founded. There is only ONE of those, btw.. not 30,000+

I'm sorry but that's not the way discussion / debate works. If you think what I said is wrong, then SHOW how it is wrong. Refute it, not just by saying "you're wrong" but by explaining why you think it is wrong, in a reasonable, logical way, in line with the scriptures. And not just one misapplied verse, because that's always how false doctrines arise, by people pointing to one or maybe two misapplied verses, which contradict tons of other verses.

I'm not even going to dignify the last thing you said with a reply, since not only is it off-topic, but you have already been shown repeatedly by others here how utterly false and unbiblical that is. Even Meriweather agrees with everyone else who has told you your "there is no salvation outside the Catholic church" view is false.