Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[Meriweather]

No, it makes no sense to say it gave me a false sense of security when I didn't even believe in it, I didn't believe in ANY thing from the church or religion at all.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. The only reason I went to Catholic church as a child was because my mom took my sisters and I to church, if wasn't because I believed it.

My faith didn't start until many years later, and when it did, it was profound experience I had with God literally lifting the veil from my eyes... when I wasn't even looking for God. At that point I started to believe in Jesus and the Gospel.

You say it didn't give you a sense of false security, but only assume it must give others a sense of false security? That doesn't make sense.

God is good.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So obviously desperate to "win." I guess that's all that faith means to you. Ok. The "look how many posts you have!" divergence particularly reeks of desperation and frustration. Good luck with that.

Just the opposite. This isn't a game to be won or lost. This is a soul for Christ, in a co-mission to spread His word. Buttercup has a heart for Jesus and champions Him, not herself. She won't take the easy road and go with the flow, she stands her ground and relays the Good News. And she will be the same tomorrow as she is today, resolute in her convictions and willing to call out false doctrine that may harm others. I'm glad that she's here.
God bless her.

 

[Meriweather]

The child will grow up not knowing one thing about what happened in church one day when they were 3 months old. It will not affect them if they have no knowledge of it. It will not prevent the child from doing wrong as they grow. They will not be more obedient because of an event that happened that they don't remember.
Why on earth would you believe that God-fearing parents will not train a child in the way it should go?

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it

It doesn't say baptize a child, it says train up a child...

Interesting take on baptism... But then I don't believe in depriving a child of God baptism.

 

[Meriweather]

That’s the responsibility of parents to teach and train up a child in the ways of the Lord. When a child understands what it means to sin and can sin, then Baptized them for the remission of the sins they can now commit. Sin is different than disobedience by a child. And therefore, calling a baby a sinner is repulsive to God.

But you do teach them from a very young age the forgiveness of sins and the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Once again arrogantly presuming to know the will of God.

He gave us an instruction manual. We don't have to presume or assume what the will of God is. He told us. The Bible is filled with what His will is. And what it isn't:

Matthew 7:1-3 Judge not, that ye be not judged. ... For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.​

And here is exactly what Buttercup does, because it IS His will:
1 Peter 2:15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people.

It is a good thing for Buttercup to be here, sharing her knowledge of the Lord by doing this:

2Tim. 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.​

 

[The Irish Ram]

This is heresy, according to the Church Christ founded, which is the Catholic Church. It is the only one that goes back to the first century, began being called Catholic (Universal) in the FIRST century. Why do you adhere to a "church" that is NOT a Church? Jesus founded only ONE, not 30 or 40,000, all teaching different things.

I wish protestants would wake up. At least they should investigate the claims of the CC (meaning the true CC not the fake one currently occupying the Vatican, against God's will).

I direct people to the Sedevacantists who KNOW Catholic teaching that was available to all for 20 centuries until the takeover of the Vatican 65 years ago by anti-Catholics. When I say "Catholic" here I am speaking (unless I say otherwise) of the TRUE Catholic Church..

The other 2 branches are in error, though they get a few things right.

Anyhow.. it's unbelievable to me how obstinate Protestants are in rejecting the True Faith. They hold onto their old ideas even when Catholics point out scripture that tells a different story. That's a good way to get yourself into Hell. Jesus founded a Church to get people to Heaven.. and it is the only one that has the wherewithal to do that.

^ Not one bit of that is true, but I see you are still hoping we're all going to hell but you...

 

[The Irish Ram]

This thread has devolved into straight-up bigotry. How spiritual.

It might help to drop the personal attacks and concentrate on what is being posted instead of the poster.

 

[Picaro]

Some Catholic traditions are of course not 'biblical' and some are just bizarre, and child baptism is one of them, but I don't see any particular harm in it, either. It's not going to make Jesus reject the child or turn it away or anything.

 

[Unkotare]

You're a petty troll who contributes nothing. You don't even try to debate a position

Faith is not a debate.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Interesting take on baptism... But then I don't believe in depriving a child of God baptism.

Find me the child that says, "I'd better not do that. I was baptized as a child."
Repent, baptize, accept the Holy Spirit. It's not one of those things, or a couple of them. Repentance is listed first.

 

[Meriweather]

Some Catholic traditions are of course not 'biblical' and some are just bizarre, and child baptism is one of them

Catholics have a strong faith in the power of the Sacraments and the redemption and salvation of our lives made possible by Jesus sacrifice/obedience to death on the cross. He taught us the forgiveness of sins. In obedience we have turned/repented from that old way of life, thus have been baptized, and now we, the Body of Christ, continue with baptizing our babies into this new way of life, brought to us by Jesus over two thousand years ago that has been life ever since. This is a life where the baptized are given the promises of grace, justification, and life as priest, prophet, king. And here, with each new life given us, we begin.

For reasons that make sense to them, some start their children out in that old way of life so that they may do their own individual repentance, and join into the new life Christ won for all back in Biblical times. Nothing wrong with starting out in the old way of life, but nor is there anything wrong with starting at the beginning of the new way of life.

 

[Meriweather]

Repentance is listed first.

Did Christ, or did he not, open redemption and the Way of Salvation two thousand years ago through his sacrifice on the cross? Do we start over with the Garden of Eden (disobedience), or do we start with the Way of Salvation (obedience) that has now been open for two thousand years? If you believe it important that children start at the way lived in the Garden of Eden before they come forward thousands of years later to the Way of Salvation, then I somewhat understand why some wait for baptism. However, for those starting with the Way of Salvation that has been open for two thousand years, we begin with Baptism as Christ commanded. We believe and have faith in the power of God's sacrament of Baptism.

 

[Cougarbear]

But you do teach them from a very young age the forgiveness of sins and the gifts of the Holy Spirit?

That’s what is meant by teaching and training up a child in the ways of the Lord. So that when they go beyond disobedience into sin, they want to be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost. That’s easy to understand.

 

[Meriweather]

That’s what is meant by teaching and training up a child in the ways of the Lord. So that when they go beyond disobedience into sin, they want to be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost.

And when they sin after baptism?

 

[Picaro]

Well, in any case, 'baptism' was a Jewish ritual, not invented by Christians; Jesus was himself baptized, allegedly around the age of 30, by John The Baptist.

History of baptism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hemerobaptists​

Main article: Hemerobaptists

Hemerobaptists (Heb. Tovelei Shaḥarit; 'Morning Bathers') were an ancient religious sect that practiced daily baptism. They were likely a division of the Essenes.[10] In the Clementine Homilies (ii. 23), John the Baptist and his disciples are mentioned as Hemerobaptists. The Mandaeans have been associated with the Hemerobaptists on account of both practicing frequent baptism and Mandaeans believing they are disciples of John.[11][12][13]

...

Mandaeans revere John the Baptist and practice frequent full immersion baptism (masbuta) as a ritual of purification, not of initiation. Mandaeans abhor circumcision and are possibly the earliest people to practice baptism and may have originated Gnosticism.[14]: 109 [15][16] Early religious concepts and terminologies recur in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and yardena (Jordan) has been the name of every baptismal water in Mandaeism.[17] The Mandaic language is a dialect of southeastern Aramaic with Palestinian and Samaritan Aramaic,[18][19] as well as Akkadian influences and is closely related to Syriac and especially Jewish Babylonian Aramaic. They formally refer to themselves as Nasurai (Nasoraeans).[12] According to Mandaean sources such as the Haran Gawaita, the Nasurai inhabited the areas around Jerusalem and the River Jordan in the 1st century AD.[14][12]

 

[Cougarbear]

And when they sin after baptism?

What does Jesus teach? Repent and ask for forgiveness. I know Catholics teach this too. You confess your sins to priests and to the Lord asking for forgiveness. To help keep us on track we renew our baptismal and temple covenants each week by participating and partaking the Sacraments on the Sabbath Day.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It does appear we hear the words "Born Again" more often in non-Catholic Christianity

But we heard them first coming out of Christ's mouth. And He included a "must" in His commentary:
John 3:7 "You must be born again before you can see, or enter, the Kingdom of Heaven"

We need to hear it in every church, often...

 

[buttercup]

Did Christ, or did he not, open redemption and the Way of Salvation two thousand years ago through his sacrifice on the cross? Do we start over with the Garden of Eden (disobedience), or do we start with the Way of Salvation (obedience) that has now been open for two thousand years? If you believe it important that children start at the way lived in the Garden of Eden before they come forward thousands of years later to the Way of Salvation, then I somewhat understand why some wait for baptism. However, for those starting with the Way of Salvation that has been open for two thousand years, we begin with Baptism as Christ commanded. We believe and have faith in the power of God's sacrament of Baptism.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I wanted to reply to a couple things you said.

You keep saying "Way of Salvation".... and then after that you put the word "obedience" in parenthesis.

Jesus made it crystal clear that HE is the way.

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

- John 14:6​

So we need to put our faith in HIM. When you continually leave out the essential component of faith, and skip ahead to obedience....this is disturbing, because I believe it misses the whole point of the Gospel.

The bible makes it clear that we are not saved by our own works, or religious ceremonies. We are not saved by being "good" or "obedient" because none of us can achieve God's standard by our own merit. And since God's standard is perfection, that is precisely why we need Jesus, because HE did what we simply cannot do. We just need to put our faith and trust fully in Him and, not in our own works or any religious rituals.

So as I posted earlier.... before jumping ahead to obedience, purification and things like that... FIRST one needs to receive the gift of salvation, and as has been stated over and over, we are saved by God's grace, through faith.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

- Ephesians 2:8-9​

So the "Way" of Salvation is not obedience (which implies our own works)... it's JESUS.

If things aren't done in the right order... if one jumps ahead several steps while putting no emphasis on the absolutely necessary first steps, then that could result in a false conversion.

As TIR said in post #300, Jesus was emphatic and clear. "You MUST be born again." (John 3)

Being born again is not about "obedience." It's about becoming born spiritually. It's literally, truly becoming a son or daughter of the living God of the universe, with a new nature, a new heart, everything is new. And once we get saved we have the Holy Spirit. So it's completely different than striving to be "obedient" in our natural state.

I know this is off topic, so I'll stop here. But when I kept seeing you say "Way of Salvation" while continually leaving out faith, repentance and the reality of going from death to life, I had to chime in.

 

[Cougarbear]

But we heard them first coming out of Christ's mouth. And He included a "must" in His commentary:
John 3:7 "You must be born again before you can see, or enter, the Kingdom of Heaven"

We need to hear it in every church, often...

Baptism is the symbolism of being born again. First by water and then by fire. Only for those who can sin. As Jesus said, little children are as the kingdom of Cod. They are pure and innocent from sin. Thus, baptism is not essential until one has the ability to choose good or evil (sin).

 

[Cougarbear]

Faith is not a debate.

When you disagree with no reason posted, your disagreement is disallowed. It has no bearing on anything. Stop being lazy and explain your position however faulty it will be