Where do you think the WOT should be fought?

[ProudDem]

Proud..........I'm not trying to change your mind about how you feel about the administration or the war............just wanting you to take the initiative and find a better place to fight the war.

You've repeatedly said you want our troops to come home. Did you think that would miraculously stop the jihad? Do you think we are fighting this war to conquer the Iraqi's?

Please.........explain to me what you think will happen if you could wave a magic wand today and all our troops were home..........what would the world look like then?

It's easy to sit back and say "bring our troops home", but I haven't seen your plan for what would happen after the fact.

Well, Kurtsprincess, just because I say I want the troops to come home, I need to devise a plan? Says who? Says you? I have not said that I want them to come home now. I like Russell Feingold's idea of giving a date certain that the troops will leave Iraq. By not having a deadline, it gives some the Iraqi soldiers no incentive to learn how to defend their own country. At this point, Kurtsprincess, I don't we are going to "win" this war and leave there with the Iraqis having a democracy. I think this will break out into civil war. I am not hoping this happens--I am saying that I believe that is what will happen.

We went into Afghanistan because they were harboring terrorists--it was appropriate to fight that war there.

I won't discuss the war on terror and how it relates to Iraq since I don't see a connection.

 

[Annie]

When did they fire on our planes? See link in my prior post. I don't see Bush using that as a basis to go to war in Iraq.

This isn't 'all inclusive' but you can see the key points, prior to the Iraq War:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/backgrounder/iraqcrisis/pages/s_timelinekeyevents.html

Key Events since the Gulf War

The Gulf war

Aug. 2, 1990: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein sends troops into Kuwait. The UN Security Council passes Resolution 660, condemning the invasion and calls for Iraq's full withdrawal.

Aug. 6, 1990: The UN Security Council passes Resolution 661 imposing economic sanctions on Iraq.

Nov. 29, 1990: With Resolution 678, the UN Security Council authorizes the United States and its allies to use "all necessary means" to free Kuwait.

Jan. 17, 1991: "Operation Desert Storm" begins with early morning aerial bombing of Iraq.

Feb. 13, 1991: American warplanes bomb a Baghdad air-raid shelter, killing 300 people.

Feb. 23, 1991: Iraq fails to meet deadline to withdraw, sets Kuwait's oil wells on fire.

Feb. 24, 1991. U.S. and its allies launch ground invasion that overwhelms Iraqi forces.

Feb. 26, 1991: Iraq says it is withdrawing from Kuwait.

Feb. 27, 1991: Kuwaitis welcome allied troops as they arrive in Kuwait City.

March 3, 1991: Iraq accepts the UN's ceasefire terms, agreeing to give up its claim to Kuwait, reveal information about its chemical and biological weapons, release all foreign prisoners and accept responsibility for the deaths, injuries and damage caused during its occupation of Kuwait.

Containment

March -April, 1991 Iraqi forces repress rebellions by Kurds in the north and Shia Muslims in the south.

April 3, 1991: UN Security Council passes Resolution 687, which confirms the terms of the ceasefire and calls for weapons inspections.

April 10, 1991: The U.S. orders Iraq to end all military activity in northern Iraq, establishing a "no-fly zone" for Iraqi aircraft to protect the Kurdish population from attacks. U.S., British and French planes patrol the zone north of the 36th parallel.

April 19, 1991: UNSCOM, the United Nations Special Commission, is established to work with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to carry out weapons inspections in Iraq aimed at finding chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

May 15 to May 21, 1991: The IAEA conducts its first nuclear inspection in Iraq.

June 9 to June 15, 1991: UNSCOM conducts its first chemical weapons inspection in Iraq.

June 28, 1991: Iraqi troops fire warning shots in the air and refuse to allow UN inspectors into a military compound to examine a convoy of trucks carrying nuclear material. The UN Security Council condemns Iraq for not co-operating with inspectors.

Aug. 2 to Aug. 8, 1991: UNSCOM conducts first biological weapons inspection.

Sept. 6 to 24, 1991: Iraq blocks UNSCOM surveillance flights.

Feb. 28, 1992: United Nations Security Council presidential statement deplores Iraq's failure to disclose WMD programs.

Jan. 1993: U.S. and allies attack missile sites and radar bases in northern and southern Iraq, and an industrial complex near Baghdad.

April 13, 1993: A day before former U.S. President George Bush was to visit Kuwait, 14 arrests are made in alleged plot to assassinate him that Washington blames on Iraqi intelligence.

June 27, 1993: U.S. President Bill Clinton orders the firing of 24 cruise missiles at Iraqi intelligence headquarters in Baghdad to retaliate for alleged assassination plot against former president George Bush.

Oct. 7, 1994: Iraq moves troops toward Kuwait but pulls back after U.S. sends warships, 54,000 troops and warplanes to the region.

April 14, 1995: The oil-for-food program (Resolution 986) is passed by the UN Security Council. Iraq does not accept it until May, 1996, and the program, which allows Iraq to sell export limited amounts of oil in exchange for food and medicines, is not actually implemented until December 1996.

June 14, 1995: Iraq threatens to stop co-operating with UN arms inspectors if their report is unfavourable.

July 1, 1995: For the first time, Iraq acknowledges that is has an offensive biological weapons program.

October 15, 1995: Saddam Hussein stages referendum on his presidency, and 99.96 per cent of Iraqis vote to give him another seven-year term.

Feb. 23, 1996: General Hussein Kamil Hasan al-Majid, Saddam Hussein's son-in-law who fled Iraq in 1995, is killed after returning to Baghdad. Gen. al-Majid had been promised a pardon by Saddam Hussein.

Sept. 3 and 4, 1996: United States launches cruise missiles at Iraqi anti-missile sites to retaliate for Iraqi military's moves into Kurdish "safe haven" in northern Iraq. The U.S. also extends the northern limit of the southern no-fly zone to just south of Baghdad.

Sept. 11, 1996: Iraq fires a missile at U.S. F-16s in northern no-fly zone. U.S. responds by sending more forces to the Gulf region.

Oct. 29, 1997: Iraq says it will no longer allow American personnel to take part in weapons inspections, and accuses U.S. inspectors of spying.

Jan. 12, 1998: Iraq says it will block all further inspections led by American arms inspector Scott Ritter.

Feb. 23, 1998: After meeting with Saddam Hussein in Baghdad, UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan secures limited access for inspectors to so-called presidential sites in Iraq.

Aug. 5, 1998: Iraq announces end to co-operation with inspectors, but allows "long-term monitoring" programs to remain in place.

Oct. 31, 1998: Iraq ends all co-operation with UNSCOM. U.S. and Britain threaten airstrikes.

Nov. 5, 1998: UN Security Council condemns Iraqi move as "flagrant" violation of council resolutions.

Nov. 14, 1998: Iraq tells Security Council it will allow inspectors to return to work.

Dec. 9 to 15, 1998: Iraq again obstructs inspections and UNSCOM reports that it cannot continue its mandate.

Dec. 16-19, 1998: After UN staff are removed from Baghdad, the United States and Britain launch a bombing campaign, Operation Desert Fox, in an effort to destroy Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs.

Dec. 19, 1998: Iraq says UNSCOM will never be allowed back into Iraq.

Dec. 17, 1999: With Resolution 1284, the UN Security Council creates the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace UNSCOM.

Jan. 27, 2000: Swedish diplomat and former IAEA head Hans Blix is named executive chairman of UNMOVIC.

November 30, 2000: Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz rejects new UN weapons inspection proposals.

Dec. 1, 2000: Iraq temporarily halts oil exports after the UN rejects its request that buyers pay a 50-cent-a-barrel surcharge into an Iraqi bank account not controlled by the UN.

April 20, 2001: Britain and the United States carry out bombing raids to disable Iraq's air-defence network.

September 11, 2001: Suicide attacks against Washington and New York change U.S. attitude toward security. Washington later accuses Saddam Hussein's regime of links to Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.

April 8, 2002: Baghdad suspends oil exports to protest against Israeli incursions into Palestinian territories. Despite calls by Saddam Hussein, no other Arab countries follow suit. Exports resume after 30 days.

June 5, 2002: UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan holds talks in Vienna with Iraqi officials in effort to restart weapons inspections, but negotiations fail.

Aug. 1, 2002: Iraq offers to accept weapons inspections, but attaches a variety of conditions. The offer is rejected.

September 12, 2002: U.S. President George W. Bush tells the UN General Assembly that it is time to confront Iraq, and warns that the U.S. would take action on its own if the UN does not agree.

Sept. 17, 2002: In a letter to the UN General Assembly, Iraq announces that it will accept weapons inspections. The U.S. and Britain, who had increased airstrikes on Iraqi air-defence sites, reject the offer, and call for a tough, new UN Security Council resolution on Iraq.

Sept. 24, 2002: British Prime Minister Tony Blair publishes a long-awaited 50-page dossier on Iraq's military capability. The government is later embarrassed when it is alleged that parts of the document were plagiarized.

Nov. 8, 2002: UN Security Council passes Resolution 1441, calling on Iraq to disarm and allow weapons inspectors into the country. The resolution warns of "serious consequences" if Iraq does not comply.

Nov. 18, 2002: UN weapons inspectors arrive in Iraq. [/QUOTE]

 

[xen]

Wouldn't any of those places be better than here at home?

When our troops die, it IS a hit at home.

 

[ProudDem]

That isn't the thread theme. Come on, we expect better than that.

Am I not allowed to comment on someone else's post and go outside the theme of the thread? Hmmmmmmm

 

[ProudDem]

This isn't 'all inclusive' but you can see the key points, prior to the Iraq War:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/backgrounder/iraqcrisis/pages/s_timelinekeyevents.html

I appreciate your providing me this information. That is interesting (but it still does not make me think that the war in Iraq is a war on terrorism )

 

[kurtsprincess]

I won't discuss the war on terror and how it relates to Iraq since I don't see a connection.

That precisely why I'm asking the question. So many people do not get the connection between the war in Iraq and the WOT.

This war has to be fought somewhere..........would you prefer it to be fought on American soil?

 

[Annie]

Am I not allowed to comment on someone else's post and go outside the theme of the thread? Hmmmmmmm

Sure. You are adding alot to the board in some ways and being exceedingly boring in others.

 

[kurtsprincess]

When our troops die, it IS a hit at home.

Agreed.........just not as many Americans are dying while we are fighting in Iraq as if they would if we were fighting here.

Do you agreed on this point?

 

[ProudDem]

Sure. You are adding alot to the board in some ways and being exceedingly boring in others.

Okay. I dont' need to be interesting all the time. Sorry you think I should be. I don't see much contribution coming from you in this thread except to insult me.

 

[Annie]

Okay. I dont' need to be interesting all the time. Sorry you think I should be. I don't see much contribution coming from you in this thread except to insult me.

Well you already told the thread starter that you don't have to go by the topic. OK. Then you try to bash me. Okay. Not flaming or anything, which is more than fine. So just keep on going.

 

[xen]

....just not as many Americans are dying while we are fighting in Iraq as if they would if we were fighting here.

Do you agreed on this point?

Hmm, sorry I don't think i would agree.
I think we're doing a whole lot more fighting and dying in Iraq.
Theres no way we could have that sort of chaos here. Just look at it now, theres no, iraqi factions, islamic clerics, or skinny mobs runnin around with AKs.

 

[Said1]

I appreciate your providing me this information. That is interesting (but it still does not make me think that the war in Iraq is a war on terrorism )

I think the link is pointing out violations of the ceasefire agreements etc, that Saddam violated. There are terroists in Iraq now.......follow the bouncing ball.

 

[ProudDem]

Well you already told the thread starter that you don't have to go by the topic. OK. Then you try to bash me. Okay. Not flaming or anything, which is more than fine. So just keep on going.

Excuse me? When did I bash you? You called me "exceedingly boring." How is that not your bashing me. I merely called you on your insult. How is that bashing you?

Kathianne, I was directly addressing the thread starter because he/she mentioned the war on terror being fought in Iraq. What is wrong with my saying that I don't believe that the war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism? Is that so out of the scope of the thread?

 

[kurtsprincess]

Theres no way we could have that sort of chaos here.

You think not?! Wow.

Just look at it now, theres no, iraqi factions, islamic clerics, or skinny mobs runnin around with AKs.

Precisely my point xen........they are over there and that's where we want to keep them occupied.

 

[ProudDem]

I think the link is pointing out violations of the ceasefire agreements etc, that Saddam violated. There are terroists in Iraq now.......follow the bouncing ball.

I understand the purpose of the link. Said, Bush never stated that that was the reason we were going into Iraq. If that was such a valid basis, why would he leave that out?

The insurgents were not there when we invaded.

 

[dilloduck]

Well, Kurtsprincess, just because I say I want the troops to come home, I need to devise a plan? Says who? Says you? I have not said that I want them to come home now. I like Russell Feingold's idea of giving a date certain that the troops will leave Iraq. By not having a deadline, it gives some the Iraqi soldiers no incentive to learn how to defend their own country. At this point, Kurtsprincess, I don't we are going to "win" this war and leave there with the Iraqis having a democracy. I think this will break out into civil war. I am not hoping this happens--I am saying that I believe that is what will happen.

We went into Afghanistan because they were harboring terrorists--it was appropriate to fight that war there.

I won't discuss the war on terror and how it relates to Iraq since I don't see a connection.

Proud dem,
just a heads up and a FYI---you're getting boring.
Just because the administration didn't say "Mother may I ? " properly, we cannot start this game all over again. Try the "here and now" and if you are so determined to keep you mind closed, why are you even here and why now?

oops--I think the war should be fought someplace that the damn terroists will agree too. It's just so damn rude of them to hide and move all over the place like they do. It's just not fair to our troops.

 

[xen]

The insurgents were not there when we invaded.

 

[kurtsprincess]

The insurgents were not there when we invaded.

So we attracted them from all over the world to Iraq? I'm OK with that.

As I said........I would rather attract and engage them on foreign soil, rather than attracting them to US soil.

 

[xen]

...they are over there and that's where we want to keep them occupied.

You know, thats a kick in the nutz.
Just churns my butter to know that someone has warped your mind into think there would be violence on the scale of iraq. Huge mobs of terrorists, rpgs, people gettin bombed every day.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Gotta go to work.........I'll be back later to continue debate!!!