Where did anti-semitism originate from?

[dilloduck]

I should have said was there an Arab palestinian government charter or declaration of a palestinian state in 1924.

Your site is being reposted below but I find no reference to the number of Arabs vs Jews in Israel (British palestine) in 1924.



Apparently A.J. Balfour made an inexplicable error in judgement with one sentence in his sixty-eight word note to Lord Rothchild. Such inadvertent or purposeful sentences can sometimes change the history of mankind.

Just another one of those mysterious coincidences in the history of Israel.

It doesn't really matter if I could prove to you that the Jews were FAR out numbered in the British Mandated Territories. Your point still is that Israel was attacked in 48, won the war and is now free to do anything they want to. This exacerbated anti-semitism in the ME. You really didn't expect em to be buddies did ya?

 

[ajwps]

It doesn't really matter if I could prove to you that the Jews were FAR out numbered in the British Mandated Territories. Your point still is that Israel was attacked in 48, won the war and is now free to do anything they want to. This exacerbated anti-semitism in the ME. You really didn't expect em to be buddies did ya?

So by your reasoning, Israel winning the '48 war against the attacking Arab armies exacerbated anti-semitism in the ME.

Did you actually think that if Israel had been destroyed in '48 and the young state and its Jews decimated, anti-semitism would be reduced against the Jews remaining the world?

Unbelievable reasoning!

 

[dilloduck]

So by your reasoning, Israel winning the '48 war against the attacking Arab armies exacerbated anti-semitism in the ME.

Did you actually think that if Israel had been destroyed in '48 and the young state and its Jews decimated, anti-semitism would be reduced against the Jews remaining the world?

Unbelievable reasoning!

Unbelievable twisting. I said ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE ME. NOT THE REST OF THE WORLD

 

[ajwps]

Unbelievable twisting. I said ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE ME. NOT THE REST OF THE WORLD

Oh I see. If there are no more Jews alive in 1948 ME, then would anti-semitism in the ME be reduced. Let me see if I can figure that one out.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........ Why YES........

 

[dilloduck]

Oh I see. If there are no more Jews alive in 1948 ME, then would anti-semitism in the ME be reduced. Let me see if I can figure that one out.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........ Why YES........

OK one more time AJ-------The arabs in the mideast are more anti-semitic because they lost the war in '48 !

 

[ajwps]

OK one more time AJ-------The arabs in the mideast are more anti-semitic because they lost the war in '48 !

Can you be so kind as to tell me how much MORE anti-semitic are the Arabs in the ME after the miraculous loss in 1948 Israel?

A little
A lot
A greater amount
None more or less

 

[dilloduck]

Can you be so kind as to tell me how much MORE anti-semitic are the Arabs in the ME after the miraculous loss in 1948 Israel?

A little
A lot
A greater amount
None more or less

My mistake. I should be wondering why the Arabs were so anti-semitic that they attacked Israel in the first place. Had to be over land or religion.

 

[ajwps]

My mistake. I should be wondering why the Arabs were so anti-semitic that they attacked Israel in the first place. Had to be over land or religion.

It is not land and its somewhat about their Prophet Muhammad and the Jews refusal to accept his teachings.

According to Islam, nothing happens that is not the will of god Allah. Has Allah failed or does this god exist?

Muhammad constantly and repeatedly attempted to persuade the Jews to recognize him as the last and greatest prophet and to accept his teachings. His repeated rejection and failure influenced his attitude and religion of Islam against them, once friendly toward each other they became enemies. Centuries later their hatred for each other, intact, is reaching for a climax that could easily plunge the world into war.

As long as the Jews remain alive on earth, Muhammad and his Qur'an bible are just another fable. For if the will of Allah cannot destroy the Jews of the earth then their god is FALSE.

Islam must unavoidably question their beliefs in Muhammad and Allah as long as the Jewish people survive. No less the land of Israel as a thorn in their side which disproves their holy religion.

 

[dilloduck]

It is not land and its somewhat about their Prophet Muhammad and the Jews refusal to accept his teachings.

According to Islam, nothing happens that is not the will of god Allah. Has Allah failed or does this god exist?



As long as the Jews remain alive on earth, Muhammad and his Qur'an bible are just another fable. For if the will of Allah cannot destroy the Jews of the earth then their god is FALSE.

Islam must unavoidably question their beliefs in Muhammad and Allah as long as the Jewish people survive. No less the land of Israel as a thorn in their side which disproves their holy religion.

cool so we've finally answered 777s original question. damn that took a long time !!!!

NEXT QUESTION---OK--HEY YOU OVER THERE WITH THE BLUE TIE ! YOU TURN!

 

[ajwps]

cool so we've finally answered 777s original question. damn that took a long time !!!!

NEXT QUESTION---OK--HEY YOU OVER THERE WITH THE BLUE TIE ! YOU TURN!

What does the reason Islam has to do with the destruction of the Jewish people have to do 777's original question about the basic cause of general anti-semitism?

Who is that wears a blue tie? YOU TURN????

 

[José]

Dillo, as you can see in my post "If it was Maryland", ajwps’s answer to your question couldn’t be more wrong. If there is a conflict in the world that has NATIONALISTIC causes, not RELIGIOUS, it has to be the founding of Israel.

Well this is what you get when you plan PARTITION and I repeat PARTITION.of somebody else’s homeland, togheter with the imposition of a society based on ethnic hierarchy.

UN Resolution 181, CLEARLY stated that Israel should be a ETHNIC NON SUPREMACIST STATE:

Guaranteeing to all persons equal and non-discriminatory rights in civil, political, economic and religious matters and the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms, including freedom of religion, language, speech and publication, education, assembly and association

No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants on the ground of race, religion, language or sex.

All persons within the jurisdiction of the State shall be entitled to equal protection of the laws.

The State shall ensure adequate primary and secondary education for the Arab and Jewish minority, respectively, in its own language and its cultural traditions.

No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State (by a Jew in the Arab State) shall be allowed except for public purposes.

This is the key word here: PARTITION (coupled with ethnic supremacism).

Jews never really wanted to create a CIVIC STATE like America comprising the entire Palestine, with equal rights for all, they wanted a jew only society.

They didn’t want to create a ETHNIC NON SUPREMACIST STATE, like Spain and the United Kingdom, where you have a dominant ethnicity but the human rights of all the other ethnic groups are fully respected. UN RESOLUTION 181 TOLD ISRAEL TO BECOME A ETHNIC NON SUPREMACIST STATE (and this breach must lead the international community to demmand through embargo the peaceful dismantlement of the jewish state).

Instead, Gurion created a ETHNIC SUPREMACIST STATE in Palestine, a master race society like Nazi Germany and South Africa. 750 thousand Palestinian refugees resulted from the forcible invasion of non-semitic jews to the newly created country of Israel. Next came the complete destruction of these native's homes, farms, and property - much of which had been in their familys for over 30 generations. IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME JUST ASK OUR FELLOW POSTER R2200T. Many of these local Palestinians still live in the outskirts, in unsanitary shanty-towns built next to where they used to live in wealth and security. Everything, and I mean everything, was taken away from them by force.

AJWPS SOUNDS LIKE A ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN WHO DRANK TOO MUCH, WHEN HE OPENLY SUPPORTS THE “TRANSFER” OF THE REMAINING ARAB POPULATION OF ISRAEL. The Israeli government is always taking about carrying out another such "transfer policy" which will essentially kick out the remaining Israeli citizens who are not of a jewish mother, and particularly arab-israelis.

The majority of Palestinians are now essentially imprisoned in a large Gaza Ghetto from which they are unable to leave and which is now surrounded by a barbed wire, electrified fence.

Most others are now bottled up in one of the "autonomous" population centers, all of which are surrounded by Israeli check-points and roadblocks. Millions more Palestinians continue to live in dozens of refugee camps in neighboring countries. Before you put the blame these countries, REMEMBER TO BLAME THE CRIMINAL FIRST.

LIST OF SOUTH AFRICAN BANTUSTANS:

Transkei

Ciskei

Venda

KwaZulu

Lebowa

Gazankulu

Bophuthatswana

KaNgwane

Qwaqwa

KwaNdebele

LIST OF ISRAELI BANTUSTANS:

Gaza Strip

West Bank (currently in the process of being divided into smaller Bantustans by Israeli check-points, roadblocks and settlements).

As I said in a previous post, of all possible kinds of implementation of Zionism,

CIVIC STATE = UNITED STATES

ETHNIC NON SUPREMACIST STATE = SPAIN AND BRITAIN

ETHNIC SUPREMACIST STATE = NAZI GERMANY AND SOUTH AFRICA UNDER APARTHEID.

Jews carefully chose the worst.

 

[José]

So let’s see how America would react if an ETHNIC SUPREMACIST STATE was created on her territory.

Let’s imagine the UN resolution approved the creation of a jewish state in Maryland, US instead of Palestine.

Let’s compare some of the arguments we hear:

The Middle East is so huge and Palestine is so small.

Why are arabs so obsessed with this small sliver of land?

The US is so vast and Maryland is so small.

Why are americans so obsessed with this small piece of land?

The arabs should be more generous and share a small part of the Middle East with their cousins.

Americans should prove that they are not selfish and REALLY stand by the jews and share Maryland with them.

Can you imagine the american press saying Maryland is so small that it’s not worth fighting for? Or calling americans a selfish people for not sharing it? Suddenly size and generosity would lose all its importance.

Arafat is a corrupt dictator exploiting his people ordeal instead of making peace.

President X is a corrupt politician instead of real leader able to make peace. Congressmen also make political gain of the situation.

Can you imagine the american press making these statements while the country was under foreign occupation? Even if it was true, it would never become an issue. The president would be regarded as a national hero regardless of his performance in other areas.

The arab countries are the ones at fault due to their refusal to absorb the refugees.

America is the only one to blame by keeping alive the promise of returning all displaced americans to their places of origing in Maryland.

You wouldn’t be saying about the american refugees “SCREW THEM!!!”. And if this is what you say about arab refugees, don’t act shocked and appalled when arabs fly planes into your buildings.

Let’s face it:

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be stressing the fact that many americans left the warzone voluntarily, YOU WOULD BE STRESSING THAT THEY COULD NEVER COME BACK.

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be here emphasising its small size....

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be saying that americans never really care about it.

You wouldn’t be saying that there was never a separate culture in Maryland.

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be saying that it’s just another part of the US.

You would all be stressing that it is an indivisible part of the US.

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be talking about token americans allowed to remain in their homes and how their equal rights are evidence of the democratic nature of Israel. On the contrary, the war wouldn’t stop till the last american refugee returned and the token americans would mean nothing to you..

No one would be stressing the need to be reasonable and to compromise the national territory with Israel in order to achive peace.

Peace would suddenly lose all its importance.

“A lasting solution to the Maryland problem can only come through negotiation and partition.”

Negotiation and partition MY ASS!!!

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be calling Israel a “liberal democracy” right now... “only when the last american refugee can vote will Maryland be a liberal democracy again”...only when a country expells americans it becomes a sham democracy. The democratic nature of the state depends on the nationality of the displaced person...go figure...

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be here all diplomatic, calling for restraint and cooler heads to prevail and reach a negotiated solution.

If it was Maryland you wouldn’t be here assigning blame to both sides of the conflict.

If it was Maryland you would be calling for TOTAL WAR ON ISRAEL.

If the invader was powerful, there would be B-52s droping bombs all over Maryland and most americans would approve these “homicide bombings” instead of trying to use them to deny the legitimacy of the national liberation struggle.

Not a single inch of Maryland can be taken by foreigners... but Palestine is there for the taking.... The native population is fair game... anything goes... ethnic supremacist states, ethnic cleasing, occupation etc etc

 

[José]

The purpose of my last post was to put things in perspective. I tried to show the stupidity and partiality behind many of the criticisms direct at the palestinian arabs, the american people take as gospel.

The partition of Palestine sounds quite reasonable to americans.

But all of a sudden, the partition of Maryland doesn’t sound reasonable at all, for some unknown reason.

It's always nice and easy to call for diplomacy and partitions OF SOMEBODY ELSE’S LAND, as long as the territorial integrity of good ol’USA remains intact.

That post is in no way an appology of violence. They are the slaps a psychiatrist gives to remove his patient from a crisis of hysteria.

The only explosions I would like to hear in Palestine would be the fireworks celebrating the end of the jewish supremacist state and the birth of the new multi-ethnic state of Israel or Palestine (the name is the least important thing.) Here’s a suggestion: United States of Israel and Palestine, in an obvious reference to the US, because only then, Israel would finally join the family of the democratic nations.

 

[Comrade]

Good Comparison, even i never looked at it like this.

That all assumes I give a damn for the Arab Islamic totalitarian regimes and those governments who inevitably arise from their people. We understand why Arab Muslims focus upon Israel to a degree well beyond it's relative size or population among them.


And we also should be realistic enought to know that any particular resolution of their compaints with Israel in this immediate region isn't expected to resolve all other conflict among this fundamental Islamic movement with those it comes in contact with. In fact, I still take this liberal democracy and compare it to any of the other despotic fundamentalism nations, including the PLO and it's state apparatus, and realize I have to actually make a choice.

If I don't support Israel and it's existence I'm left with the PLO charter and Sharia or some other version of despotism.

With all the fuss from the one link about immigration, the first and only link declaring the failure of Liberal Democracy in Israel, it's still in court and the supreme court will overthrow the Interior Ministor and his freeze on immigration. I expect that, in democracy.


What's important about this whole thread, is that no one will admit that we really must choose between two forms of government and that we must compare Israel and those who seek to destroy it as two viable alternatives.

 

[dilloduck]

What does the reason Islam has to do with the destruction of the Jewish people have to do 777's original question about the basic cause of general anti-semitism?

Who is that wears a blue tie? YOU TURN????

This thread was started by 777 who asked the question "Where did anti-semtism come from". You answered it. Now this thread is wandering aimlessly by discussing the Palestinian issue, Israeli govt., racism, etc. and has become incoherent and full of personal attacks. I suggest people start new threads that are defined well enough to discuss.

 

[ajwps]

With all the fuss from the one link about immigration, the first and only link declaring the failure of Liberal Democracy in Israel, it's still in court and the supreme court will overthrow the Interior Ministor and his freeze on immigration. I expect that, in democracy.

What's important about this whole thread, is that no one will admit that we really must choose between two forms of government and that we must compare Israel and those who seek to destroy it as two viable alternatives.

Comrad take another look at that seemingly innocous site of rtd2000 and what it represents.

Co-founders were Andrew I. Killgore, AET's first president, who was U.S. Ambassador to the State of Qatar when he retired from the U.S. Foreign Service in 1980; and Richard H. Curtiss, AET's first executive director, who was chief inspector of the U.S. Information Agency when he retired from the U.S. Foreign Service in 1980.

In addition to the three founding directors, other initial directors of the American Educational Trust were Prof. John Ruedy, director of studies at Georgetown University's Center for Contemporary Arab Studies; former Democratic Member of Congress Thomas Rees of Los Angeles; John Law, Middle East correspondent for U.S. News & World Report for some 20 years before he founded Mideast Markets, a publication of the Chase Manhattan Bank; and Dr. John Duke Anthony, president and chief executive officer of the National Council on U.S. Arab Relations.

Subsequent board chairmen have included Dr. John Davies, former U.S. Assistant Secretary of Agriculture and director of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), and the current chairman, the Reverend Dr. L. Humphrey Walz, former associate executive of the Presbyterian synod of the Northeast.

A very unbiased site that wants immigration of terrorist aliens into Israel. This WRMEA (front group for Islamic terrorism) lists as their board the following members and their backgrounds.

1) Amabassador to Qatar

2) a director of contemporary Arab studies

3) Middle East correspondant

4) founder of ME markets

5) National Council on U.S. Arab Relations

6) UNRWA a front group of the UN anti-Israeli action and disinformation

7) and of course the all popular Presbyterian Synod, the unbiased church that is pushing for anti-Israeli products and resolutions against this little democracy

Why not just post an Israeli immigration policy authored by Yassir Arafat?

 

[Comrade]

This thread was started by 777 who asked the question "Where did anti-semtism come from". You answered it. Now this thread is wandering aimlessly by discussing the Palestinian issue, Israeli govt., racism, etc. and has become incoherent and full of personal attacks. I suggest people start new threads that are defined well enough to discuss.

You want a straight up answer? My own take?


Hatred of Judaism is a necessary precept in order to adopt the concept of monotheism apart from Jewish foundations. Judaism entered the market of ideas and managed to become the first religion to remain rooted up to today as the longest running "one God" belief. Both Christianity and Islam had a hard act to follow. Instead, they took the Old Testament, and added a new prophet who was especially in touch with the will of the one God and then established their own dogma and text.

Control and power of human civilization centered upon the religious authority of the clergy.

The Jewish writings and doctrine, were questioned and ridiculed or oppressed for centuries, and that was probably very easy to do given the life of those who were ruled by other religious mandates.

Any education or historical awareness was restricted to the most elite religious scholars and they all had a hand in maintaining the strict intolerence for other faiths, purely through self interest.

Mohammad was particularly nasty about dealing with Jews and yet he would also consider some among that race a fine piece of ass, going so far as to marry those who would convert "willingly" and otherwise sexually enslaving those who would not.

All of his wives and concubines stack up and are detailed here:


http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/holy_family.htm

(7) Juwairiah Bint. Al-Harith: She was taken as a captive in a raid. That is, she was part of spoils of war in the battle against Banu Mustaliq. Her father was the chief of Banu Mustaliq. She was taken as a captive by a soldier named Thabit Ibn Qais. She was extremely beautiful. Some claim that Mohammad bought her from Thabit. Mohammad married her in 5 A.H. (627 A.H.), when he was 58 and she was 20. The marriage took place after Mohammad's marriage to Zainab Bint Jahsh. She was married to Mohammad for 6 years. She lived for another 39 years after Mohammad's death. She died in 50 A.H. (670 A.H.) at an age of 65. She was Jewish.

( 9) Safiyah Bint Huyay: She was a war booty. She was taken a captive after the slaughter in Khybar. In that battle, she lost her father, recently married husband and all other close relatives. This captured Jewish woman was given to a Muslim soldier called Dahia. However, when Mohammad saw her exquisite beauty she immediately bought her from Dahia and proposed to marry her. She was in a state of shock when brought to Mohammad. Safiyah's cousin sister was also brought along with Safiyah but Mohammad was not interested in her cousin as she was not that pretty. Safiyah had no choice but to marry Mohammad to save her life. She was 17 years old when she married the 60 years old Mohammad. She was with Mohammad for 4 years. She was 21 when the prophet of Islam died. She lived as a widow for the next 39 years. She died in 50 A.H (673 A.D.) at the age of 60.

(13) Rayhana: She was not a real wife. She was a booty from a battle. She was a Jewish girl of extreme beauty; so, Mohammad proposed to marry her. However, she refused to covert to Islam and marries Mohammad. Therefore, she became a sex slave of Mohammad. However, in many places we get that he married her.

Mohammad's version of Armageddom, a Jewish concept from 1,500 years before the Koran, involves a new twist, a game of hide and seek between Jews and Muslims, where all the bushes and trees get into the game and raise the alarm over any Jews hiding within them. In so many words, the call is that all faithfull Muslims should come and kill this Jew.

Once the dirty work is done the reckoning is wrought the Jewish prophecy of the reckoning proceeds except Muslims now stand in for redeption or what not.

It's very bizzare but true, definately the real deal. Muslims are taught that they will kill Jews on the last day and while they're waiting why not make it easier in the long run.

Is that unfair?

 

[Comrade]

Comrad take another look at that seemingly innocous site of rtd2000 and what it represents.




A very unbiased site that wants immigration of terrorist aliens into Israel. This WRMEA (front group for Islamic terrorism) lists as their board the following members and their backgrounds.

1) Amabassador to Qatar

2) a director of contemporary Arab studies

3) Middle East correspondant

4) founder of ME markets

5) National Council on U.S. Arab Relations

6) UNRWA a front group of the UN anti-Israeli action and disinformation

7) and of course the all popular Presbyterian Synod, the unbiased church that is pushing for anti-Israeli products and resolutions against this little democracy

Why not just post an Israeli immigration policy authored by Yassir Arafat?

That's why I'm encouraging a broaders perspective on the topic. As much as Israel is faulted for, I'm still wondering how the accusations against it are above and beyond that which I expect from it's enemies.

I can't ignore the alternatives to Israel. It's not even a comparison. I remain supportive of the moral superiority of the Israeli government as long as the ultimate options remains beyond any Western Liberal standards of behavior.

 

[ajwps]

That's why I'm encouraging a broaders perspective on the topic. As much as Israel is faulted for, I'm still wondering how the accusations against it are above and beyond that which I expect from it's enemies.

I can't ignore the alternatives to Israel. It's not even a comparison. I remain supportive of the moral superiority of the Israeli government as long as the ultimate options remains beyond any Western Liberal standards of behavior.

Comrad,

Why must Israel remain above and beyond Western LIBERAL standards of behavior?

It's nice to remain above the level of immoral and evil action but not when it comes to Israel's own survival. For Israel, they can't find alternatives that you chose to ignore.

Maybe the comparison of Israel living a Liberal standard of fair play creates that hate by those who do not maintain those high standards.

 

[Annie]

Comrad,

Why must Israel remain above and beyond Western LIBERAL standards of behavior?

It's nice to remain above the level of immoral and evil action but not when it comes to Israel's own survival. For Israel, they can't find alternatives that you chose to ignore.

Maybe the comparison of Israel living a Liberal standard of fair play that makes so many hate them beyond everyone else.

Aj, to be ever so obvious, how about because we are going to get our ass whipped every time we take Israel's side? :scratch: