WHERE are all the cries of judicial activism from the right?

[LibocalypseNow]

It seems some are only obsessing over the fact that Corporations have been granted Free Speech rights. The Unions will also benefit greatly from this ruling. Not seeing much outrage over that. How many politicians have been in the Unions' pocket over the years? Free Speech really does apply to everyone no matter how you feel about them and their positions on politics.

 

[Oddball]

One has to do with some semantic wrangling and an obscure statutory provision. The other is again statutory in nature, done to organize a political entity that is in effect (if you like the corporate terms) a wholly owned subsidiary of the Federal government.

I fail to see the 14th being decided in either situation.

The semantic wrangling and parsing is at the center of the issue....That's the point. Try parsing the difference between "Must and/or Shall" and "are required", in legalese.

Your observation that the political organizations are (for all practical purposes) wholly owned subsidiaries of District of Columbia Corporation is on the mark.

I guess I'm just too used to legalese to see the absurdity of it anymore. Score one for you!

But I was actually making the opposite point. The District of Columbia, an incorporated municipality just like the one I live in, is a wholly owned and controlled subsidiary of the Federal government - not the other way around. I'm not necessarily a fan of municipal incorporation, but it does have some organizational advantages.

Close.

The federal gubmint, along with state county and city corporations, operate under the corporate umbrella. They are the source of the "civil" rights extended to other corporations and legal fictions.

They've basically usurped the founding flow chart (whereby de jure government derives its just powers from the governed), and installed themselves as what I refer to as "gubmint", which dispenses "civil" rights to their favored lackeys and the hio polloy, as a sort of benevolent dictator.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Anger should be directed at McCain & Feingold instead. They created legislation that was unconstitutional all along. Their legislation really was flawed.

 

[Truthmatters]

It seems some are only obsessing over the fact that Corporations have been granted Free Speech rights. The Unions will also benefit greatly from this ruling. Not seeing much outrage over that. How many politicians have been in the Unions' pocket over the years? Free Speech really does apply to everyone no matter how you feel about them and their positions on politics.

The UNIONS dont have the resources to compete with the corporate money.

The Bin Laden family can own the majority of American companys and in turn PICK our next president.

Just great.

 

[Bfgrn]

Wake up my friend. Wake up.
Dont vote for those that cowtow to the special interests.

Special interests? Isn't THAT who just hit the jackpot with this ruling? I never got to vote for Roberts, Kennedy, Scalia, Thomas and Alito...did you?

They did not hit that jackpot if those they support do not vote in congress to favor them.
And if those they support in congress vote to favor them, then dont vote for them next time.

If you do not like the salaries of athletes, do not watch the game or buy the merchandise.

When will people see that we, as a people, can control everything.

We simply choose not to.

As for the SCOTUS...seems to me your beef is with the appointments of justices. Maybe that should be another thread.

I'm sure the mothers of children that died of cancer in the Love Canal area or have children with asthma from coal burning carcinogens will be relieved. All they had to do was refuse the diseases...

I always thought patriotism was based on caring about Americans, and the intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights was to provide safeguards to protect citizens' life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from powers foreign or domestic that can harm or extinguish life, but I'm wrong...

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Simply not true. You still have the right to vote only for candidates who do not accept money from the "Evil Corporations." That right has not been taken away from you. Having the most money doesn't always guarantee a win anyway. This is proven all the time in politics. This ruling does nothing but guarantee Free Speech rights for all. It was the correct Constitutional ruling. Many may not like it but it really was the correct ruling.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yep, using the courts to get what they can't get at the ballot box.

Once a popular conservative refrain.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Another good question is,

where did all Tea Party populism go? Looks to me, around here, that it was just a bunch of corporatists in disguise.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

I also would have to disagree vehemently with those claiming this is the worst Supreme Court Ruling ever. By far the worst Supreme Court Ruling ever was when they granted Foreign Terrorists U.S. Constitutional Rights. That was a terrible injustice in my opinion. Most on the Left jumped for joy over that awful ruling. So lets not get too hysterical over this one ok? Hey,just my take anyway.

 

[goldcatt]

The semantic wrangling and parsing is at the center of the issue....That's the point. Try parsing the difference between "Must and/or Shall" and "are required", in legalese.

Your observation that the political organizations are (for all practical purposes) wholly owned subsidiaries of District of Columbia Corporation is on the mark.

I guess I'm just too used to legalese to see the absurdity of it anymore. Score one for you!

But I was actually making the opposite point. The District of Columbia, an incorporated municipality just like the one I live in, is a wholly owned and controlled subsidiary of the Federal government - not the other way around. I'm not necessarily a fan of municipal incorporation, but it does have some organizational advantages.

Close.

The federal gubmint, along with state county and city corporations, operate under the corporate umbrella. They are the source of the "civil" rights extended to other corporations and legal fictions.

They've basically usurped the founding flow chart (whereby de jure government derives its just powers from the governed), and installed themselves as what I refer to as "gubmint", which dispenses "civil" rights to their favored lackeys and the hio polloy, as a sort of benevolent dictator.

And organizational (not to mention financial) move, not a Constitutional one. I'm not a fan myself in most regards, but I fail to see the tie-in between statutory municipal incorporation and the 14th Amendment rights of corporations in general.

Oh, and I do agree with your assessment that government has moved away from the consent of the governed. But I disagree strongly with incorporation having anything to do with it. Arrogance and corruption don't need a corporate charter to do damage.

 

[ihopehefails]

The most interesting thing you said is that corporations have legal rights granted to them by law. This is true but the constitution forbids the federal government from passing any law that restricts (congress shall pass no law...) someone's speech so any corporate law passed by congress that restricts free speech is unconstitutional.

It is a good ruling no matter what.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The most corrupt Corporations on Earth are usually Governments. Corporations ain't got nothing on Governments.

 

[ihopehefails]

Anger should be directed at McCain & Feingold instead. They created legislation that was unconstitutional all along. Their legislation really was flawed.

We had a local conservative talk show host who could not criticize McCain because of this law. Not only did it restrict corps in their activities but also individuals connected to it so the law was an infringement of everyone civil liberties.

 

[Oldandtired]

Special interests? Isn't THAT who just hit the jackpot with this ruling? I never got to vote for Roberts, Kennedy, Scalia, Thomas and Alito...did you?

They did not hit that jackpot if those they support do not vote in congress to favor them.
And if those they support in congress vote to favor them, then dont vote for them next time.

If you do not like the salaries of athletes, do not watch the game or buy the merchandise.

When will people see that we, as a people, can control everything.

We simply choose not to.

As for the SCOTUS...seems to me your beef is with the appointments of justices. Maybe that should be another thread.

I'm sure the mothers of children that died of cancer in the Love Canal area or have children with asthma from coal burning carcinogens will be relieved. All they had to do was refuse the diseases...

I always thought patriotism was based on caring about Americans, and the intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights was to provide safeguards to protect citizens' life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from powers foreign or domestic that can harm or extinguish life, but I'm wrong...

I disagree with how you see me.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Lets make a deal...We'll get the Supreme Court to scrap this decision if you guys on Left get them to scrap their awful decision to allow Foreign Terrorists U.S. Constitutional Rights. Deal?

 

[Bfgrn]

They did not hit that jackpot if those they support do not vote in congress to favor them.
And if those they support in congress vote to favor them, then dont vote for them next time.

If you do not like the salaries of athletes, do not watch the game or buy the merchandise.

When will people see that we, as a people, can control everything.

We simply choose not to.

As for the SCOTUS...seems to me your beef is with the appointments of justices. Maybe that should be another thread.

I'm sure the mothers of children that died of cancer in the Love Canal area or have children with asthma from coal burning carcinogens will be relieved. All they had to do was refuse the diseases...

I always thought patriotism was based on caring about Americans, and the intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights was to provide safeguards to protect citizens' life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from powers foreign or domestic that can harm or extinguish life, but I'm wrong...

Only an asshole would use the dead children of mothers to spin what someone else was saying...all in an effort to win a debate with anonymous participants.

You are surely an asshole...who probably jerks off to the thought of those dead children.

Only someone without conscience would resort to dismissing the fact that some tragic consequences CAN'T be controlled by shallow actions like turning off a TV or voting for someone else. Consequences like the death of a child or any family member due to carcinogens dumped into our air, water, soil and working environment by corporations.

Yet, if I put PCBs in my pool and let the neighborhood kids go for a swim I would be put in prison. I wouldn't have a team of lawyers and connected CEO's to negotiate a fine or a plea bargain. I would be ostracized and called a monster that should be publicly drown in my pool of PCBs...You lost this argument when I exposed that you have no patriotism based on fellow Americans. I can live with being an asshole, I pity that you have to live with being uncivilized and crass...

Camus would never mistake you for a thinking man...

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

 

[Oldandtired]

I'm sure the mothers of children that died of cancer in the Love Canal area or have children with asthma from coal burning carcinogens will be relieved. All they had to do was refuse the diseases...

I always thought patriotism was based on caring about Americans, and the intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights was to provide safeguards to protect citizens' life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from powers foreign or domestic that can harm or extinguish life, but I'm wrong...

Only an asshole would use the dead children of mothers to spin what someone else was saying...all in an effort to win a debate with anonymous participants.

You are surely an asshole...who probably jerks off to the thought of those dead children.

Only someone without conscience would resort to dismissing the fact that some tragic consequences CAN'T be controlled by shallow actions like turning off a TV or voting for someone else. Consequences like the death of a child or any family member due to carcinogens dumped into our air, water, soil and working environment by corporations.

Yet, if I put PCBs in my pool and let the neighborhood kids go for a swim I would be put in prison. I wouldn't have a team of lawyers and connected CEO's to negotiate a fine or a plea bargain. I would be ostracized and called a monster that should be publicly drown in my pool of PCBs...You lost this argument when I exposed that you have no patriotism based on fellow Americans. I can live with being an asshole, I pity that you have to live with being uncivilized and crass...

Camus would never mistake you for a thinking man...

It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.
Albert Camus

Why dont we address all of the wrongs in the world while we are at it. We were in a debate and you brought up something to counter my sentiments that is related, yes, but a stretch to the crux of the debate.
As for intentional and deadly polluting of our environment, I do not see things any differently than you do..and nowhere did I imply otherwise. Your issue is with the legal system that certainly favors those with money..such as large corporations...large unions...large spoecial interest groups. You and I , for example, will fare not nearly as well as ACORN or IBM in a court of law.
But you see...I am a thinking man. Crass? Usually not. Yes, I most certainly was with you, but I doubt you will ever find a post of mine in the past that was crass as my most recent one to you. I am embarrassed. Dont know what got me to that point....but I take full responsibility and I apologize...and retract.

As for the debate at hand...look at my posts. I do not in any way applaud the ruling nor do I favor it. However, I support it as it supports the way I interpret the constitution...and I have learned over my 50 years that you must take the good with the bad...and in no way should you ever compromise your convictions for personal gain.

Thanks for the beratement. It was deserved.

 

[Some Guy]

Question: Are all the corporations of America just dying to funnel millions into republican campaigns?
Answer: No. There are many heads of powerful corporations that are democratic or far left. GE is one. Costco is another, Starbucks... the list goes on. If a powerful, evil corporation like Starbucks, which poisons it's customers with deadly coffee and cappuccinos, wants to give millions to the democrats, then they're more than welcome to now.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

As for the other stuff...stop regurgitating talking points. My son just secured insurance for hmself for $3700 a year. Great plan? Nope. Solid? Yep. Affordable? Very.
There are many "organic food" retailers in any city...so I can buy whatever food I want with whatever additives.

Your son pays more than $308 a month for a shitty insurance plan? Wow, congratulations. You just proved my point. What about someone making $10 an hour? That's an entry level wage, you know.

As for the other references, I was merely stating that corporations can and do get away with murder without regulation in order to raise the most profits - which obviously benefit very, very few Americans. We have sold this country to the highest bidder and I cannot for a minute believe that anyone would be "okay" with this. Do you not realize that what little pipsqueak of a voice we had left is gone?

 

[Intense]

Special interests? Isn't THAT who just hit the jackpot with this ruling? I never got to vote for Roberts, Kennedy, Scalia, Thomas and Alito...did you?

They did not hit that jackpot if those they support do not vote in congress to favor them.
And if those they support in congress vote to favor them, then dont vote for them next time.

If you do not like the salaries of athletes, do not watch the game or buy the merchandise.

When will people see that we, as a people, can control everything.

We simply choose not to.

As for the SCOTUS...seems to me your beef is with the appointments of justices. Maybe that should be another thread.

I'm sure the mothers of children that died of cancer in the Love Canal area or have children with asthma from coal burning carcinogens will be relieved. All they had to do was refuse the diseases...

I always thought patriotism was based on caring about Americans, and the intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights was to provide safeguards to protect citizens' life, liberty and pursuit of happiness from powers foreign or domestic that can harm or extinguish life, but I'm wrong...

Just misguided. Free Speech is the Issue. It is in the First Amendment for a reason, that reason is It's importance, and significance. The Defense against Tyranny rests in Free Speech, It is too important to Censor. There is no justification to Legislate restrictions or compromise here.

I grew up in Hicksville on Long Island, about a quarter mile from Hooker Chemical's sister plant to Love Canal. We have acres of contaminated ground from Grumman and others. This is a separate issue, that has nothing to do with voice.