When Will The Arabs Make Peace With Isreal?

[dilloduck]

It's only free for Jews and the token Arabs.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by Comrade
Bah. I said before and I'll say it again, it's a fact these rights exist for all equally among Isreali citizens. Palestine and the rest of the Arab states don't have them, period.

Whatever your point was, again you won't admit Isreal is in fact a free society and works well for all concerned. You've ignored this statement from me as if it's just impossible to grasp. Why don't you go to Isreal and hang out near a mosque and watch people enter without fear or concern for their safety.

I'm going to make one last attempt to have a rational discussion on this subject. Your counterpart AJWPS is a rabid zealot who screams accusations of racism as soon as anyone disagrees with his radical propogandist views. AJWPS is a person who contributes to anti-Semitism through his abrasive and hysterical rantings.

First, let me preface my comments by stating that I substantially agree with you. I feel that Israel has the right to exist, to defend itself and to enact laws and policies necessary for the protection of its people. Furthermore, I believe that Israel is under absolutely no obligation to treat their enemies with kid gloves. So long as muslims refuse to renounce violence, Israel is totally justified in responding both defensively and pre-emptively.

The United States has been Israel's staunchest and perhaps only true ally. We have poured billions of our tax dollars into the economy and treasury of Israel in order to assure that it has the means of flourishing and protecting itself. Unfortunately, the United States has been the recipient of some rather questionable treatment by the government of Israel. The following are just a couple of examples. I do not know if the sources are unbiased, frankly I doubt it. But even if you ignore all of the more inflammatory conclusions, there remains a factual basis.

http://www.logogo.net/liberty.htm

On June 8, 1967, during the Six Day War, Israeli forces attacked the USS Liberty, a U.S. Navy intelligence-gathering ship off the coast of Gaza, killing 35 men and wounding 171. Israeli apologized and called the attack an accident. The U.S. government accepted the apology and did not openly challenge the explanation For almost three decades the crewmen of the Liberty have waged a campaign to have the attack investigated. Indeed, they claim that not only was the attack was intentional, but also that Johnson recalled the Sixth Fleet rescue flights to avoid a clash between the U.S. and Israel.

The Aerotech News has recently published this series of articles, written by John Borne, about the attack and the issues that it raised. Dr. Borne, wroteThe USS LIBERTY, Dissenting History vs. Official History, an historical study of the incident, for his PhD dissertation at New York University.

The recent publication of"BODY OF SECRETS" by James Bamford, with new evidence that the Israelis deliberately attacked the Liberty and the attendant reviews and commentary in the national media, have focused renewed interest on the Liberty incident.
=========================================

Some analysts state that this was a case of mistaken identity. It is true that the Israeli Air Force discontinued their attacks short of sinking the USS Liberty. But the crew of the ship tells a different story. After the first attack, they lowered the standard US flag the ship was flying and raised the holiday flag, which was almost twice the size of the standard. Despite that, they were attacked twice more.

That incident brings up some rather troubling questions. But even if you can accept the premise that the attack was an unfortunate and unintended mistake of war, then how do you explain the following?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

Prior to 9/11, the FBI had discovered the presence of a massive spy ring inside the United States run by the government of Israel. This seems a harsh gratitude from a nation which obtains 10% of its annual budget from the American taxpayer, $3+ billion a year. Over the years, American taxpayers have been required to send Israel more than four times what the US spent to go to the moon.
What Israel has done in return was to set up government subsidized telecommunications companies which operate here in the United States. One of these companies is Amdocs, which provides billing and directory assistance for 90% of the phone companies in the USA. Amdocs' main computer center for billing is actually in Israel and allows those with access to do what intelligence agencies call "traffic analysis"; a picture of someone's activities based on a pattern of who they are calling and when. Another Israeli telecom company is Comverse Infosys, which subcontracts the installation of the automatic tapping equipment now built into every phone system in America. Comverse maintains its own connections to all this phone tapping equipment, insisting that it is for maintenance purposes only. However, Converse has been named as the most likely source for leaked information regarding telephone calls by law enforcement that derailed several investigations into not only espionage, but drug running as well. Yet another Israeli telecom company is Odigo, which provides the core message passing system for all the "Instant Message" services. Two hours before the attacks on the World Trade Towers, Odigo employees received a warning. Odigo has an office 2 blocks from the former location of the World Trade Towers. "I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing -- although that was part of it -- by a sovereign foreign government... It will become public at some point when it's turned over to the archives, but that's 20 or 30 years from now."
-- Senator Graham as quoted in Senator: At Least One Foreign Country Assisted the 9/11 Terrorists

Let us be clear here. There is nothing benign about Israel spying on the United States. When Jonathan Pollard stole our nuclear secrets (which your taxes paid to develop) and sent them to Israel, Israel did not hesitate to trade those secrets to the USSR in exchange for increased emigration quotas.

The implication of these facts is that the billions of our tax dollars sent to Israel (while women and children sleep in America's alleys and eat out of trash bins) have bought and paid for a monstrous phone tracking and phone tapping system that can eavesdrop on almost any phone call in America. Even the White House phones were open to such tapping by listening in on the other end outside the White House itself.

This actually happened. The Ken Starr report on Whitewater describes how Bill Clinton informed Monica Lewinsky that their phone sex conversations had been recorded. At the same time, Clinton ordered the FBI to cease the hunt for an Israeli mole known to be operating inside the White House itself!
======================================

Okay, even if you dismiss a substantial part of the premises presented in this article as slanted propoganda or outright fabrications, that still leaves us with the troubling situation that Israel has, and continues to spy on us. Is this behavior appropriate for a friend and ally? Is this how Israel treats a nation which has been responsible for giving Israel the tools necessary to assure its very existence?

I'll say this once again - I support Israel. But I am not blind in my support, nor is my support unequivocal. I cannot ignore the fact that in some respects Israel treats the USA in the same manner that the USA treats its enemies. I believe that unless the Israeli government changes its ways, many like me will change their views in regards to supporting the state of Israel. That doesn't make me anti-semitic. That just makes me a person who has the best interest of the United States ahead of anything else.

Seems to me that the Israeli government needs to take to heart the old adage of "in order to have a friend, first you have to BE a friend."

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by Comrade
If Jews are experts at making people hate them, well obviously they were asking for the holocaust, right?


Now the cries of anti-Semitism as an appeal for pity didn't work in the gas chambers. It doesn't work to protect Isreal. It doesn't work to influence the UN. It doesn't work to help stop the bombings. In fact, nobody feels sorry for the Jews anymore, and defending Isreal is no longer something the world generally tries to achieve.

Isreal stopped expecting pity from others long ago, and actually defended themselves as a free state while most either stood by or assisted the Arab dictators.

And now you say Isreal's nukes are unjustified, as if they are unnecessary or even dangerous in their hands over the last 30 years.

There is no pity for their civilian deaths from suicide bombers and nobody backs it's right to exist. In fact you either respect Isreal or you hate it. Nobody pities Jews in Isreal anymore.


And it's not about Jews, when a secular Liberal democracy is what you should hate. And I've said enough about how the racist accusation is just plain dumb.

Merlins post pretty much sums up my postion too. I didn't say that Israels nukes are unjustified and I'm not sure any countries are but they are there and since they are I think Israel should at least acknowledge them. We don't trust muslim countries to not use nukes. Should they simply trust Israel ? America is the country caught in the middle here and we can become victims of rogue states having nukes too. Israels behavior has made it dangerous for America to support it but America has hung in there for ya. Can ya be just a little flexible in appreciation of our support?

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Merlin1047

I'm going to make one last attempt to have a rational discussion on this subject. Your counterpart AJWPS is a rabid zealot who screams accusations of racism as soon as anyone disagrees with his radical propogandist views. AJWPS is a person who contributes to anti-Semitism through his abrasive and hysterical rantings.

At last you are making one last attempt to make a rational discussion on this subject. You are both rational and measured at making self-serving judgements against whom you consider to be rabid zealots.

That really nice.......

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

Merlins post pretty much sums up my postion too. I didn't say that Israels nukes are unjustified and I'm not sure any countries are but they are there and since they are I think Israel should at least acknowledge them. We don't trust muslim countries to not use nukes. Should they simply trust Israel ? America is the country caught in the middle here and we can become victims of rogue states having nukes too. Israels behavior has made it dangerous for America to support it but America has hung in there for ya. Can ya be just a little flexible in appreciation of our support?

Are you insinuating that Israel is a rogue state?

Israel acknowledges that they have the capabilities to defend themselves from attacks by any rogue states.

No body is saying that America should not be credited with supporting their only friendly nation in the entire Middle East. Israel's behavior has not made it one iota more dangerous for America, that old canard is the mantra of Islam.

America without an Israeli ally would be no more loved or respected by the Islamic world than Muhammad would have been had he not made love to little girl children.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by Dillduck

Merlins post pretty much sums up my postion too. I didn't say that Israels nukes are unjustified and I'm not sure any countries are but they are there and since they are I think Israel should at least acknowledge them. We don't trust muslim countries to not use nukes. Should they simply trust Israel ? America is the country caught in the middle here and we can become victims of rogue states having nukes too. Israels behavior has made it dangerous for America to support it but America has hung in there for ya. Can ya be just a little flexible in appreciation of our support?

Are you insinuating that Israel is a rogue state?

Israel acknowledges that they have the capabilities to defend themselves from attacks by any rogue states.

No body is saying that America should not be credited with supporting their only friendly nation in the entire Middle East. Israel's behavior has not made it one iota more dangerous for America, that old canard is the mantra of Islam.

America without an Israeli ally would be no more loved or respected by the Islamic world than Muhammad would have been had he not made love to little girl children.

Give both America and Israel a little slack.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by ajwps

Originally posted by Dillduck

Merlins post pretty much sums up my postion too. I didn't say that Israels nukes are unjustified and I'm not sure any countries are but they are there and since they are I think Israel should at least acknowledge them. We don't trust muslim countries to not use nukes. Should they simply trust Israel ? America is the country caught in the middle here and we can become victims of rogue states having nukes too. Israels behavior has made it dangerous for America to support it but America has hung in there for ya. Can ya be just a little flexible in appreciation of our support?

Are you insinuating that Israel is a rogue state?

Israel acknowledges that they have the capabilities to defend themselves from attacks by any rogue states.

No body is saying that America should not be credited with supporting their only friendly nation in the entire Middle East. Israel's behavior has not made it one iota more dangerous for America, that old canard is the mantra of Islam.

America without an Israeli ally would be no more loved or respected by the Islamic world than Muhammad would have been had he not made love to little girl children.

Give both America and Israel a little slack.

Easy, oh paranoid one !
no-- I was not insinuating that Israel was a rogue state but there are many who would say different.

America has other friends in the Middle East OTHER than Israel--you know better than that!

Our support for Israel IS a factor in making us a target of terrorism. Why do you think they burn both nations' flags together? Are they the only ones on sale at ALI-MART ?

OK I'm ready to see the slack that Israel offers America.

 

[ajwps]

Originally posted by dilloduck

Easy, oh paranoid one !
no-- I was not insinuating that Israel was a rogue state but there are many who would say different.

You said, "Should they simply trust Israel ?" Does that imply that only others and you the only exception who say there are others that think differently?

America attacks countries that they consider a danger to their land and people. Israel is forced to have their hands tied behind them when they try to do the exact same. That is hypocrisy... And Israel is the rouge?

America has other friends in the Middle East OTHER than Israel--you know better than that!

I'm sorry I don't know anything like that. Please enlighten all of us who those other real Middle East US allies might be? That would be a trick indeed.

Our support for Israel IS a factor in making us a target of terrorism. Why do you think they burn both nations' flags together? Are they the only ones on sale at ALI-MART ?

That is a blatently false statement. Why do you insist on believing that little Israel is the cause of the American target of Islam? Israel is the scapegoat of the Islamic believers who have apparently succeeding in making people like you believe this Qur'anic approved deception. Take your blinders off your eyes.

OK I'm ready to see the slack that Israel offers America.

And I have always admitted that Israel has a true symbiotic relationship with America where both help each other. The delusion that Israel is the cause of hatred is to believe in Santa Clause.

 

[José]

When Will The Arabs Make Peace With ISREAL?

Only the day ISREAL becomes UNREAL ; )

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by José
Only the day ISREAL becomes UNREAL ; )

Haven't followed this, but checked this out. Now here's a Pali backer, what they've said all along, it stops, when Israel fails to exist.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by ajwps
I'm going to make one last attempt to have a rational discussion on this subject. Your counterpart AJWPS is a rabid zealot who screams accusations of racism as soon as anyone disagrees with his radical propogandist views. AJWPS is a person who contributes to anti-Semitism through his abrasive and hysterical rantings.

At last you are making one last attempt to make a rational discussion on this subject. You are both rational and measured at making self-serving judgements against whom you consider to be rabid zealots.

That really nice.......

Just my opinion based on what you have posted. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by ajwps
Re: When Will The Arabs Make Peace With Isreal?

a. when Hell freezes over
b. when they run out of suicide-bombers
c. when Sharon is gone
d. when Arafat is gone
e. Tear down the wall!
f. 5 years
g. 500 years

Feel free to add...

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by nycflasher
a. when Hell freezes over
b. when they run out of suicide-bombers
c. when Sharon is gone
d. when Arafat is gone
e. Tear down the wall!
f. 5 years
g. 500 years

Feel free to add...

okay.

h. When Jews and muslims sit down together at a pork barbeque picnic.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
okay.

h. When Jews and muslims sit down together at a pork barbeque picnic.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

LOL! Geez!

 

[freeandfun1]

they both can't eat pork..... so kinda funny when you think about it. Much more humerous than saying "when hell freezes over".

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
they both can't eat pork..... so kinda funny when you think about it. Much more humerous than saying "when hell freezes over".

Good to know that you got the joke.
And nice one, Merlin.

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by nycflasher

And nice one, Merlin.

TY, TYVM. I do my best.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Good to know that you got the joke.
And nice one, Merlin.

Even better knowing that you got it.:cof:

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
okay.

h. When Jews and muslims sit down together at a pork barbeque picnic.

damn funny Merlin !!!:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

and yet so true.