When Will The Arabs Make Peace With Isreal?

[ajwps]

"We will have peace with the Arabs
when they love their children more
than they hate us."

~ Former Prime Minister, Golda Meir ~

http://pnews.org/art/6art/NAT.shtml

 

[José]

"We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more
than they hate us."

Former Prime Minister, Golda Meir

Golda, I'll tell you what: abandoning jewish ethnocentricism (God gave this land to us) would help too.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by ajwps
http://pnews.org/art/6art/NAT.shtml

And I assume the jews will determine when this has occured?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by José
Golda, I'll tell you what: abandoning jewish ethnocentricism (God gave this land to us) would help too.

So what about the secular, democratic state of Isreal would you change to ensure peacefull co-existance with Arab Muslims.

Notice the 30% Islamic population in Isreal and living as citizens have no problems with their freedom to worship, demand equal voting rights, and otherwise stay safe and more prosperous than in any Arab state, period.

All of the rest of the Middle East under tyranny and the Islamic rule of law is supposed to stay that way, while Isreal dumps it's Liberal democratic government, you say?

What specifically did you have in mind?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Comrade
All of the rest of the Middle East under tyranny and the Islamic rule of law is supposed to stay that way, while Isreal dumps it's Liberal democratic government, you say?

Comrade

As I said before (forum Racist Apartheid State) Israel is about as democratic as South Africa under apartheid.

Israel has a body of laws called “Basic Laws” through which legalised racism is embedded in its legal system.

1) The Law of Return:

The famous law of return basically states that every jew has the right to become an Israeli citizen and jews have the right to have accelarated citizenship through this law. The racist nature of this law is evident since it applies to jews only.

2) Israel’s Citizenship Law

This law regulates citizenship for non-jews.

Israeli legislators had to be clever enough to find a way to prevent the victims of the ethnic cleansing of 48 from ever returning to Israel using the Citizenship Law. They achieved their racist goal establishing that a person born in Israel can become a citizen if he/she applies for it between the age of 18 and 25 and RESIDE IN ISRAEL FOR 5 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Now someone explain to me please...how can a palestinian war refugee born in Israel “reside in Israel for 5 consecutive years” if he spent most of his life in a Bantustan called Gaza and was never allowed to reside in Israel not even for a week?

3) Israel Lands

According to this law the land of Israel belongs to the jewish people not to individuals.

This racist law prevents palestinian war refugees and even those who still live in Israel from buying the very same land they lived in until 48. This land was confiscated by the israeli government through another racist law called Absentee Law: it allows the israeli government to confiscate the land of any people who left his home, even if they left for a few days waiting for the hostilities to end during the 1948 conflict. Needless to say the only people affected by this law were arabs. These lands were invariably given to jews.

These three laws form the backbone of the israeli apartheid state. Working together they enforce israeli apartheid, preventing palestinian war refugees and their children from returning to their places of origin. They also clearly show that Israel,far from being a shining example of democracy in the Middle East, is, in fact, A JEWISH RACIAL DICTATORSHIP. I agree with you when you say that politics in the Middle East looks like a nightmare (dynastic monarchies, theocracies, military dictatorships). I just disagree when you say Israel is democratic. ISRAEL IS PART OF THIS NIGHTMARE, not the exception.

Let’s be reasonable Comrade...when you are expelled and not allowed to return to your place of origin, can’t become a citizen of the country where you were born, can’t freely buy, sell or lease any kind of land property...when all these things happen just because you are an arab...how can any resonable person call this anything but racism? And when these things are all state sponsored how can anyone called this state anything but a racial dictatorship?

Even though you won’t find a single arab participating in government at the federal level as a cabinet minister, people who support Israel like to point to token members of minorities who get elected:

The mayor of Jerusalem is an arab etc etc

These facts are totally irrelevant. Israel can elect an arab prime minister for all I care. As long as the Knesset continues to uphold those three racist laws cited above, Israel will still be a racial dictatorship no matter who’s in charge.

 

[José]

Comrade, This is an excerpt of the UN resolution 181 (creation of Israel):

Guaranteeing to all persons equal and non-discriminatory rights in civil, political, economic and religious matters and the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms, including freedom of religion, language, speech and publication, education, assembly and association

No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants on the ground of race, religion, language or sex.

All persons within the jurisdiction of the State shall be entitled to equal protection of the laws.

The State shall ensure adequate primary and secondary education for the Arab and Jewish minority, respectively, in its own language and its cultural traditions.

No expropriation of land owned by an Arab in the Jewish State (by a Jew in the Arab State) shall be allowed except for public purposes.

You know what Comrade??... States based on race always reminds me of Marxism. The only place it really worked was on Marx’s mind.

Ethnic supremacist states also work well... on paper.

“All members of the unofficial ethnicity will have their human, civil, religious rights totally respected blah blah blah blah”

On the ground, you have Ben Gurion using a war as a pretext to expel them all.

But... ask yourself... why should it be different? States based on race are supposed to be racist. Being racist is part of their own definition as a state. The decision to split Palestine into two racist states was one of the first and biggest mistakes of the UN.

We also have UN Resolution 194 (I know it’s a non-binding one, but we all know who opposed it), saying:

The General Assembly,

Having considered further the situation in Palestine,

Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date

Originally posted by Comrade
What specifically did you have in mind?

Comrade this is my suggestion to the Knesset and the Israeli government, if they really want Israel to become a democracy:

1. Revoke the three racist laws cited above and FINALLY write a constitution giving full civil rights to all citizens regardless of ethnicity and safeguarding the rights of minorities.

2. TURN THE ZIONIST ARMY OF ISRAEL AND OTHER SECURITY FORCES INTO AN ARMY AND POLICE FORCE CAPABLE OF PROTECTING BOTH COMMUNITIES. PUT THEM UNDER INTERNATIONAL SUPERVISION, INDEPENDENT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. THIS IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

3. Start dismantling and incorporating into Israel the two arab Bantustans known as West Bank and Gaza Strip and allow all palestinian war refugees and their descendants to return. Yes, the same people UN resolution 181 said you should never have expelled in the first place.

4. Hold elections based on universal suffrage.

5. Let the winners (a jewish and and arab prime minister) take office.

THEN AND ONLY THEN, Israel will no longer be a jewish racial dictatorship and will have become a real democracy.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by José
Comrade

As I said before (forum Racist Apartheid State) Israel is about as democratic as South Africa under apartheid.

Israel has a body of laws called “Basic Laws” through which legalised racism is embedded in its legal system.

1) The Law of Return:

The famous law of return basically states that every jew has the right to become an Israeli citizen and jews have the right to have accelarated citizenship through this law. The racist nature of this law is evident since it applies to jews only.

2) Israel’s Citizenship Law

This law regulates citizenship for non-jews.

Israeli legislators had to be clever enough to find a way to prevent the victims of the ethnic cleansing of 48 from ever returning to Israel using the Citizenship Law. They achieved their racist goal establishing that a person born in Israel can become a citizen if he/she applies for it between the age of 18 and 25 and RESIDE IN ISRAEL FOR 5 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Now someone explain to me please...how can a palestinian war refugee born in Israel “reside in Israel for 5 consecutive years” if he spent most of his life in a Bantustan called Gaza and was never allowed to reside in Israel not even for a week?

3) Israel Lands

According to this law the land of Israel belongs to the jewish people not to individuals.

This racist law prevents palestinian war refugees and even those who still live in Israel from buying the very same land they lived in until 48. This land was confiscated by the israeli government through another racist law called Absentee Law: it allows the israeli government to confiscate the land of any people who left his home, even if they left for a few days waiting for the hostilities to end during the 1948 conflict. Needless to say the only people affected by this law were arabs. These lands were invariably given to jews.

These three laws form the backbone of the israeli apartheid state. Working together they enforce israeli apartheid, preventing palestinian war refugees and their children from returning to their places of origin. They also clearly show that Israel,far from being a shining example of democracy in the Middle East, is, in fact, A JEWISH RACIAL DICTATORSHIP. I agree with you when you say that politics in the Middle East looks like a nightmare (dynastic monarchies, theocracies, military dictatorships). I just disagree when you say Israel is democratic. ISRAEL IS PART OF THIS NIGHTMARE, not the exception.

Let’s be reasonable Comrade...when you are expelled and not allowed to return to your place of origin, can’t become a citizen of the country where you were born, can’t freely buy, sell or lease any kind of land property...when all these things happen just because you are an arab...how can any resonable person call this anything but racism? And when these things are all state sponsored how can anyone called this state anything but a racial dictatorship?

Even though you won’t find a single arab participating in government at the federal level as a cabinet minister, people who support Israel like to point to token members of minorities who get elected:

The mayor of Jerusalem is an arab etc etc

These facts are totally irrelevant. Israel can elect an arab prime minister for all I care. As long as the Knesset continues to uphold those three racist laws cited above, Israel will still be a racial dictatorship no matter who’s in charge.

Every time I ask why Isreali Liberal, secular Democracy is at fault in the conflict it's always specifically about the rights of Palestinians. I don't think you understand my question, what particularly is specifically racist or oppressive about the Isreali government with respect to it's citizens. There are many Muslims, Jews, and Christians, Whites and Arabs, Russians and Africans, and they live peacefully together until a Palestinian Muslim bombs them.

Why don't you consider Arab society as a contributing factor to the conflict? If you have one excuse it's that you don't know anything about the nature of Palestinian government, nor every similar Islamic and totalitarian government supporting it to defeat the rule of law in the Isreali state.


But you know about the PLO charter, don't you? You also know after 30 years and 7 US Presidents and 9 Isreali Prime Minister there is still ONE Arafat.

I guess you didn't know any of this?

 

[José]

Originally posted by Comrade
I don't think you understand my question, what particularly is specifically racist or oppressive about the Isreali government with respect to it's citizens.

I did understood your question, Comrade but you want to ignore the fact that these individuals and their children who were expelled in 48, 67 have every right to be israeli citizens and the fact that citizenship is denied to them makes it impossible to consider Israel a democratic society.

International law and common morality tell us that these refugees have the right to return and as long as they are prevented from doing so by the racist laws of the state of Israel, it can’t be considered a democracy, only a dictatorship imposed by the jewish rulers of Israel, or, in other words, a jewish racial dictatorship. You just can’t ignore this fact when labelling Israel a democracy.

Tell me, Comrade, would you consider the US a democratic country if it expelled all the black population who was then obliged to live in slums at the border between Mexico and the US? I don't think so, but, for some strange reason, you seem to be willing to give a pass to Israel that did exactly that in 1948.

There are many Muslims, Jews, and Christians, Whites and Arabs, Russians and Africans, and they live peacefully together until a Palestinian Muslim bombs them.

Sure, and these arabs are not the ones who are Israeli citizens, they are those to whom the jewish racial dictatorship of Israel deny citizenship and civil rights.

If you have one excuse it's that you don't know anything about the nature of Palestinian government, nor every similar Islamic and totalitarian government supporting it to defeat the rule of law in the Isreali state

I’ve already agreed with you about the dictatorial nature of all arab countries. But as I’ve already pointed out, israeli “Basic Laws” are racist and discriminatory and form the backbone of the israeli apartheid state so Israel can’t be considered a democratic country, only a jewish racial dictatorship, just like South Africa under apartheid was a boer racial dictatorship.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by José
Comrade, This is an excerpt of the UN resolution 181 (creation of Israel):



You know what Comrade??... States based on race always reminds me of Marxism. The only place it really worked was on Marx’s mind.

Isreal is based on race yet over 30% living freely in reality, not just on paper, not Jewish. The rights of women are in excess of even the United States. Gay parades in Jerusalem. Peacefull worship at any Mosque in Isreali proper. Isreal works, just like America works. Arab regimes are pathetically inept as adapting to Liberal standards and you just can't ignore them as the root problem. It's intentional deception.

Ethnic supremacist states also work well... on paper.

All because the Palestinians ruled by Arafat and supported by tyrants around the middle east aren't welcomed as Isreali citizens. Boo-Fucking-Hoo.

“All members of the unofficial ethnicity will have their human, civil, religious rights totally respected blah blah blah blah”

And Isreal establishes this as law and like I pointed out is faithfull to it's citizens in protecting their rights. First you think this is not in fact a reality. Second you make this the key reason why all Islamic and Fascist states oppose Israeli society. Why assume they want to protect Arab freedoms when Isreal is still the only state to deliver on religious freedom and equal respresentation. No Arab state is even accountable to it's people, let alone free
and equal.

But... ask yourself... why should it be different? States based on race are supposed to be racist. Being racist is part of their own definition as a state. The decision to split Palestine into two racist states was one of the first and biggest mistakes of the UN.

No, the decision to attack Jewish settlements enmasse was only natural in the Jew hating society of Islam. Arab muslims in Isreal have all the security Americans enjoy themselves. Jew in any the mostly 99%+ Islamic areas around them get murdered. We all know this is true, and that the only true racist policy is against Jews. And you just bought into it for god know why.

We also have UN Resolution 194 (I know it’s a non-binding one, but we all know who opposed it), saying:

So either the right of return is a massive social welfare program to provide homes for what is now 6 times to original population of refuges that left during the Arab war on Jews. And we all know such a sudden shift in voting rights would doom Jews to subjugation over what every Palestinian supports today, a 100% Islamic state. Nothing practical about it.

Comrade this is my suggestion to the Knesset and the Israeli government, if they really want Israel to become a democracy:

1. Revoke the three racist laws cited above and FINALLY write a constitution giving full civil rights to all citizens regardless of ethnicity and safeguarding the rights of minorities.

Stop calling these racist laws. It's not Isreal who forgot to write in civil rights. Look at the PLO charter, or the "constitution" or simple reality of life in any of Islamic states around them. You won't get anywhere beating on Isreal for the rights and freedoms it grants.

2. TURN THE ZIONIST ARMY OF ISRAEL AND OTHER SECURITY FORCES INTO AN ARMY AND POLICE FORCE CAPABLE OF PROTECTING BOTH COMMUNITIES. PUT THEM UNDER INTERNATIONAL SUPERVISION, INDEPENDENT OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. THIS IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

It's not their job to protect Palistinians. It's also bizzare to think their soldiers would be accepted by them. It's also Isreal's national right to defend themselves and not be forced to protect their attackers. The UN has no business subjugating Isreal while they consistently seek to weaken Isreal. Get over the UN, it's no authority and no moral compass.

3. Start dismantling and incorporating into Israel the two arab Bantustans known as West Bank and Gaza Strip and allow all palestinian war refugees and their descendants to return. Yes, the same people UN resolution 181 said you should never have expelled in the first place.

Many left their homes in advance of the combined Arab attack to defeat Isreal. Most who once lived in Isreal are dead. All the following generations should have made their own lives and gotten over their ancestors "grand estates", as if there was any wealth once there not created by Isreal itself after they left.

What is not hard to understand about this demand is the desire for a piece of that prosperity, from people who had nothing to do with it. Don't pretend Isreal got rich while it's neighbors remained poor for any other reason but it's Liberal Western society.

Isreali's have no reason to dole out property and assets to those who have no part in their success.

4. Hold elections based on universal suffrage.

And thus destroy the free society in Isreal via the votes of 6 million Islamic Jew haters. Sorry!

5. Let the winners (a jewish and and arab prime minister) take office.

THEN AND ONLY THEN, Israel will no longer be a jewish racial dictatorship and will have become a real democracy.

Palestians in Gaza and the West bank have had time enough to form this kind of society without returning to Isreal. Nobody expects them as a majority to vote in a single state law as anything but Islamic and autocratics.

All the focus on Isreal as an oppressive state is what I call projection. It's denial of the true picture of Arab states and projection of those problem onto Isreal. It's really quite silly, isn't it?

 

[dilloduck]

How about giving the West Bank and Gaza back to the people who lived there before being expelled and then see what happens? As long as Israel refuses, the outcasts will be angry. When they express thier anger in violence, Israel responds with violence and claims they must continue the violence to "defend" themselves. Jews seem to be experts at encouraging people to dislike them and then cry anti-semitism to gain world attention and pity. Israel has nukes to defend itself and refuses to allow the world to inspect them. Sound familiar ??

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by José
I did understood your question, Comrade but you want to ignore the fact that these individuals and their children who were expelled in 48, 67 have every right to be israeli citizens and the fact that citizenship is denied to them makes it impossible to consider Israel a democratic society.

Let's stop ignoring everyone else but Isreal, this is exactly what Chomsky does and it's irritating to me. When war broke out, both Arabs and Jews left their homes to be protected among their own and there is no right of return for Jews in Jordan or Syria as quid pro quo. This has nothing to do with democracy or citizenship, and no free nation is required to provide for those it does not serve. You ask Isreal to commit cultural suicide via the will of millions of Islamic people who despise Jewish people and seek their removal entirely, and would do so immediately, a vote notwithstanding. Again, read the PLO charter.

Nobody pretends Jews aren't welcome in the Middle East, nor fool themselves about how oppressive it is to any but Muslim males.

Isreal has kept a sizable Arab Muslim population which remained in their homes and all are free and equal in society. Every other Arab state killed or scared off all Jews.

Recognize this and lay off Isreal.

International law and common morality tell us that these refugees have the right to return and as long as they are prevented from doing so by the racist laws of the state of Israel, it can’t be considered a democracy, only a dictatorship imposed by the jewish rulers of Israel, or, in other words, a jewish racial dictatorship. You just can’t ignore this fact when labelling Israel a democracy.

UN International law means nothing to me, nor most everyone else in the world. The UN focus on Isreal has nothing to do with morality, because remember how many Muslim states always vote against Isreal. Morality is not a numbers game. Is your morality based equally on the vote of one dictators versus the position of the USA? I don't pretend.

Tell me, Comrade, would you consider the US a democratic country if it expelled all the black population who was then obliged to live in slums at the border between Mexico and the US? I don't think so, but, for some strange reason, you seem to be willing to give a pass to Israel that did exactly that in 1948.

No but if the Blacks went to Liberia and then bombed us for decades with the intent to occupy and destroy our system for a totalitarian Black society, the hell they are just coming back in.

You won't consider anything but a very narrow view into the situation, once which is so textbook and biased to the left I assume you have not heard any other argument before.

Don't deny many Arabs left willingly in the first war, and that in this particular period the Jews were vastly outnumbered and under attack by the majority of Arabs and the regimes in the area.

And you forget many Jews left their own homes and settled into Isreal proper in that time period, and never had rights to return.


So why not admit Islamic tradition, established by Mohamed, demands this of his followers? Pure, unaduterating, Jew killing and raping and slavery and dominion. That consistent with history.

And that the only point of returning is because Isreal is far more prosperous than it's neighbors, and the poor have themselves to blame and desire to take the wealth they never created, although none stopped them.

And that no Jew in the middle East, or non-Muslim, or female, or foreigner, has any kind of rights or real protection in any Muslim state. All Arab Muslim enjoy full freedoms in the state of Isreal today much like they do in America. The reverse is not at all the case.

What do you thinkn crowding six millions Palestines into Isreal would accomplish?

I’ve already agreed with you about the dictatorial nature of all arab countries. But as I’ve already pointed out, israeli “Basic Laws” are racist and discriminatory and form the backbone of the israeli apartheid state so Israel can’t be considered a democratic country, only a jewish racial dictatorship, just like South Africa under apartheid was a boer racial dictatorship. [/B]

No nation is held accountable to rights of others. When the US attacked the Taliban which was a 100% muslim government, was that racist? I wish you'd stop mixing religion with race, because it's just not about race.

We've discussed this before, how black Jews and Arab Muslims live with equal rights in Isreal, remember?

Secular liberal democracy in Isreal is real. Arab countries are not pretending to support any of these concepts.

All Arab states are in conflict with all Liberal Democracies, and you propose dismantling one to save the rest. Which is not going to solve the problem because it's not Isreal who caused it for everyone else. I won't let them be sacrificed for some Arab promise to be peaceful after all Jews are killed.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by dilloduck
How about giving the West Bank and Gaza back to the people who lived there before being expelled and then see what happens? As long as Israel refuses, the outcasts will be angry. When they express thier anger in violence, Israel responds with violence and claims they must continue the violence to "defend" themselves. Jews seem to be experts at encouraging people to dislike them and then cry anti-semitism to gain world attention and pity. Israel has nukes to defend itself and refuses to allow the world to inspect them. Sound familiar ??

Was this Jose's quote?

Who the hell says the Jews deserve being hated like this? William Joyce?

 

[José]

Look Comrade.

The US is a multiracial country. You find people from all racial backgrounds everywhere in America, so the establishment of a white or black supremacist state anywhere in America is absolutely inconceivable.

OK, Palestine, just like the US is a multiethnic region, you find jews, arabs etc living anywhere in Palestine.

What I can’t understand is the fact that most people in this forum think it’s absolutely OK the creation of a jewish supremacist state that expelled arabs from their homes in 48, 67 (or didn’t allow them to return which is the same) AND the creation of an arab supremacist state that would most certainly expell jewish settlers from Hebron and other parts of the West Bank.

I have a question for you all:

Why do you accept in Palestine something you would reject outright in America??

 

[José]

Let’s recognize the obvious people: both jews and arabs have a historical presence in Israel/Palestine so that region belongs to both ethnicities. Israel/Palestine is the common land of the jewish and the arab people.

Both arabs and jews have an inaliable right to live anywhere they want in Palestine.

A jewish supremacist state will always deny arabs their right to live in Israel.

An arab supremacist state will always deny jews their right to live in Hebron and other parts of the West Bank.

Only a civic state, a state of citizens comprising the entire region of Palestine can provide both ethnic groups their right to share that land as equal citizens before the law.

THERE CAN BE NO ETHNIC SUPREMACIST STATES IN PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT ARE INHABITED BY MORE THAN ONE ETHNIC GROUP.

So this immoral, obscene, pornographic political entity called Israel must be peacefully dismantled and replaced by a multi ethnic state, a civic state that does not regard its inhabitants as jews or arabs but as citizens with equal rights.

I repeat: if you reject as immoral the existence of an ethnic supremacist state in America, you should reject in Palestine too.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by Comrade
Was this Jose's quote?

Who the hell says the Jews deserve being hated like this? William Joyce?

I don't see any suggestion to hate in that post.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by dilloduck
I don't see any suggestion to hate in that post.

If Jews are experts at making people hate them, well obviously they were asking for the holocaust, right?


Now the cries of anti-Semitism as an appeal for pity didn't work in the gas chambers. It doesn't work to protect Isreal. It doesn't work to influence the UN. It doesn't work to help stop the bombings. In fact, nobody feels sorry for the Jews anymore, and defending Isreal is no longer something the world generally tries to achieve.

Isreal stopped expecting pity from others long ago, and actually defended themselves as a free state while most either stood by or assisted the Arab dictators.

And now you say Isreal's nukes are unjustified, as if they are unnecessary or even dangerous in their hands over the last 30 years.

There is no pity for their civilian deaths from suicide bombers and nobody backs it's right to exist. In fact you either respect Isreal or you hate it. Nobody pities Jews in Isreal anymore.


And it's not about Jews, when a secular Liberal democracy is what you should hate. And I've said enough about how the racist accusation is just plain dumb.

 

[José]

OK, I'm leaving this message board for good.

I don't think I have anything else to say about Israel and I'm not interested in the other topics.

Bye Comrade and ajwps

I hope you are not too angry at me because of my strong opinions about the jewish state.

It was nice chatting with you two : )

Bye

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by José
Comrade

As I said before (forum Racist Apartheid State) Israel is about as democratic as South Africa under apartheid.

Israel has a body of laws called “Basic Laws” through which legalised racism is embedded in its legal system.

1) The Law of Return:

The famous law of return basically states that every jew has the right to become an Israeli citizen and jews have the right to have accelarated citizenship through this law. The racist nature of this law is evident since it applies to jews only.

2) Israel’s Citizenship Law

This law regulates citizenship for non-jews.

Israeli legislators had to be clever enough to find a way to prevent the victims of the ethnic cleansing of 48 from ever returning to Israel using the Citizenship Law. They achieved their racist goal establishing that a person born in Israel can become a citizen if he/she applies for it between the age of 18 and 25 and RESIDE IN ISRAEL FOR 5 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Now someone explain to me please...how can a palestinian war refugee born in Israel “reside in Israel for 5 consecutive years” if he spent most of his life in a Bantustan called Gaza and was never allowed to reside in Israel not even for a week?

3) Israel Lands

According to this law the land of Israel belongs to the jewish people not to individuals.

This racist law prevents palestinian war refugees and even those who still live in Israel from buying the very same land they lived in until 48. This land was confiscated by the israeli government through another racist law called Absentee Law: it allows the israeli government to confiscate the land of any people who left his home, even if they left for a few days waiting for the hostilities to end during the 1948 conflict. Needless to say the only people affected by this law were arabs. These lands were invariably given to jews.

These three laws form the backbone of the israeli apartheid state. Working together they enforce israeli apartheid, preventing palestinian war refugees and their children from returning to their places of origin. They also clearly show that Israel,far from being a shining example of democracy in the Middle East, is, in fact, A JEWISH RACIAL DICTATORSHIP. I agree with you when you say that politics in the Middle East looks like a nightmare (dynastic monarchies, theocracies, military dictatorships). I just disagree when you say Israel is democratic. ISRAEL IS PART OF THIS NIGHTMARE, not the exception.

Let’s be reasonable Comrade...when you are expelled and not allowed to return to your place of origin, can’t become a citizen of the country where you were born, can’t freely buy, sell or lease any kind of land property...when all these things happen just because you are an arab...how can any resonable person call this anything but racism? And when these things are all state sponsored how can anyone called this state anything but a racial dictatorship?

Even though you won’t find a single arab participating in government at the federal level as a cabinet minister, people who support Israel like to point to token members of minorities who get elected:

The mayor of Jerusalem is an arab etc etc

These facts are totally irrelevant. Israel can elect an arab prime minister for all I care. As long as the Knesset continues to uphold those three racist laws cited above, Israel will still be a racial dictatorship no matter who’s in charge.

What about all the Muslim nations that have racist laws? Why are you letting them of the hook?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by José
Look Comrade.

The US is a multiracial country. You find people from all racial backgrounds everywhere in America, so the establishment of a white or black supremacist state anywhere in America is absolutely inconceivable.

OK, Palestine, just like the US is a multiethnic region, you find jews, arabs etc living anywhere in Palestine.

What I can’t understand is the fact that most people in this forum think it’s absolutely OK the creation of a jewish supremacist state that expelled arabs from their homes in 48, 67 (or didn’t allow them to return which is the same) AND the creation of an arab supremacist state that would most certainly expell jewish settlers from Hebron and other parts of the West Bank.

I have a question for you all:

Why do you accept in Palestine something you would reject outright in America??

I don't think any part of this was okay at all, but shit happens in war... when the war settled down Isreal was left with a nation consisting of almost as many Muslims as Jews. All those were Muslims who stayed, and didn't leave. NOT EVICTED, right?

However, not one Jewish community remained active elsewhere in any Arab state after the series of attacks on Isreal. No Arab state ever tolerated their existence.

Isreal is a secular liberal democracy. When you speak of a supremist state you can pick any state near Isreal to fit any meaningfull definition. Isreal does not protect Palestinians who follow a leadership of terrorist factions seeking to destroy it's nation and people. If this is "racist" (as if religion is a race) at least it's not stupid.


Note again that no Jewish community can freely share the same rights as any Muslim in any Arab state. In fact, most are completely gone, along with Christians or Hindus or any other faith. But every Muslim has the same freedom to do everything a Jew can in Isreal. So who's the problem, exactly?

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by José
Let’s recognize the obvious people: both jews and arabs have a historical presence in Israel/Palestine so that region belongs to both ethnicities. Israel/Palestine is the common land of the jewish and the arab people.

Both arabs and jews have an inaliable right to live anywhere they want in Palestine.

A jewish supremacist state will always deny arabs their right to live in Israel.

An arab supremacist state will always deny jews their right to live in Hebron and other parts of the West Bank.

Only a civic state, a state of citizens comprising the entire region of Palestine can provide both ethnic groups their right to share that land as equal citizens before the law.

THERE CAN BE NO ETHNIC SUPREMACIST STATES IN PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT ARE INHABITED BY MORE THAN ONE ETHNIC GROUP.

So this immoral, obscene, pornographic political entity called Israel must be peacefully dismantled and replaced by a multi ethnic state, a civic state that does not regard its inhabitants as jews or arabs but as citizens with equal rights.

I repeat: if you reject as immoral the existence of an ethnic supremacist state in America, you should reject in Palestine too.

Bah. I said before and I'll say it again, it's a fact these rights exist for all equally among Isreali citizens. Palestine and the rest of the Arab states don't have them, period.

Whatever your point was, again you won't admit Isreal is in fact a free society and works well for all concerned. You've ignored this statement from me as if it's just impossible to grasp. Why don't you go to Isreal and hang out near a mosque and watch people enter without fear or concern for their safety.