When is it OK to shoot trespassers?

[Blues Man]

Well we can let others weigh in. Not trying to argue with you just being sensible.

It's not sensible nor is it reasonable to shoot a person for trespassing.

 

[jbrownson0831]

It's not sensible nor is it reasonable to shoot a person for trespassing.

Again, not quite what I said.....but let others argue with you now.

 

[BlackSand]

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Know Your State and Local Laws
Post Signs When Necessary ... Give People Fair Warning
Protect Yourself and Your Family

Your Defense will most likely rest on a how well you articulate the reason you shot the person,
to Law Enforcement when they arrive.

Law Enforcement is not required to provide you with a Defense ... Seek or Request Counsel.
Firearms Insurance for just such circumstances is available but not required ...
Nor should it be required.

If Anyone Wants to Talk You or Your Family into Death or Serious Bodily Injury ...
They Can Risk Their Own Life.

.​

 

[Concerned American]

There is a certain amount of truth, and a lot of dishonesty in your post. Let’s begin shall we?

First, the law says one thing, but the Courts decide what the laws mean. They decide by putting it up against other laws, and even Federal or Constitutional Law. These decisions are called Precedence. The courts decide what the law really means. And often it is not what it appears to say.

So we come to the question of justifiable use of force. Yes, you have a right to defend yourself. And fearing that the individual is a threat is a vital component. However, there is a phrase or part that you’ve ignored. That part is reasonable. Would the reasonable person believe that there was a threat?

You can’t just say I was afeared for my life and be given the golden ticket out of trouble. Your story has to show you were afraid, and that fear has to be judged to be reasonable by the various people involved in the examination. The cops, the Prosecutors are the ones who make the initial judgement. The Grand Jury decides if it was sufficiently suspicious to charge you with a crime.

Then it comes to the trial. The Jury will ultimately decide if your actions were reasonable. Those cases that came before you, those are the ones that help define the law and determine the precedent. Especially decisions by review courts, the decisions on appeals.

This is something we saw in Brunswick with the McMichaels. Internet experts quoted the text of the law endlessly to explain how the McMichaels were justified. People in Georgia, like me, kept pointing at the Precedents that said the McMichaels were going to jail. We were right, the McMichaels were going to jail, and will spend the rest of their lives inside the Georgia State Prison System.

And sadly, it was nothing new that sunk them. It was the law, that had been on the books for decades, and precedents that were on the books for similar decades. The law was defined when Daddy McMichaels was a young boy. And his been used probably a thousand times before.

So just quoting the text of the law is a good start, but only a start. To really understand what is going on you first need the whole story. Second you need the precedent cases that defined the law, and only then can you judge the legal jeopardy of the individual.

During the McMichaels case, I endlessly typed the following thing into the servers and online.

If God Forbid you ever have to use lethal force. First, before that day you should understand the laws. Take training courses, and talk to legal experts to understand when you can, and can’t use lethal force. Every state is different, and the laws are different. You need to understand how the laws in your State work.

Second. If you use force, shut your fucking mouth. Say nothing to the police. Call them and report the shooting. Say nothing else. Point out the evidence which you do not disturb to them. Call your lawyer. Call a lawyer, and then shut the absolute fuck up. Let the lawyer talk to you, and then talk to the cops. How you phrase things could be the difference between a criminal action, and a justified shooting. Shut the fuck up. Call a lawyer.

Third. Do not talk to the press before, during, or after the event. Don’t talk to your friends or family about it. Shut the fuck up. If the press starts reporting that you were crowing to your buddy about how you showed that damned N**** something. You will talk your way into prison. Don’t destroy any evidence. That makes you guilty as hell to the Jury.

Finally. The cops are not your friend. They aren’t there to help you. They aren’t going to just sweep this under the rug after a perfunctory investigation. They are going to encourage you to talk. The more you talk, the more they have to use against you.

If you think you are a great guy and you did a great thing, talk all you want. Because history shows you will talk your way right into prison.

Now, there is a lot we don’t know. We don’t know anything about what happened, and we don’t know what the precedent is in this case. It might be a bullshit charge. It might be totally justified. We don’t know. Jumping to conclusions now, just makes you look dumber and dumber as time goes by and you are reluctant to step down from the hill you climbed up on this early in the process.

Savannah Mann will be available with more legal advice at the Lawyers R Us kiosk in your local Wally World.

 

[Concerned American]

You need to look up the word. And who are the "left" ? I'm not a democrat but I understand why you have to think I am. You are another two dimensional thinker

Amazing that you democrats are abandoning ship. If I was responsible for the vegetable, I would too. Your accusations about people you have never met based on fifty word posts on the internet show you to be the one lacking in dimension. Run along with your pompous, holier than thou attitude. You are the guy I see in Macy's with your hog leg securely strapped. LMAO.

 

[BlackSand]

It's not sensible nor is it reasonable to shoot a person for trespassing.

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If they read the signs ... Don't use the call box at the gate ... And I didn't invite them ...
Then there is no sensible reason for them to be there ...

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[Concerned American]

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If they read the signs ... Don't use the call box at the gate ... And I didn't invite them ...
Then there is no sensible reason for them to be there ...

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LOL, Blues Man figures you have to see a gun in an intruder's hand to have a reasonable fear. If an intruder is in my home. He has entered without permission and has no good reason for being there. He will leave quicker than he came in.

 

[BlackSand]

LOL, Blues Man figures you have to see a gun in an intruder's hand to have a reasonable fear. If an intruder is in my home. He has entered without permission and has no good reason for being there. He will leave quicker than he came in.

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Whether or not I see a firearm or weapon ... Will determine whether or not they get a warning shot.
Blues Man can play "rock, paper, scissors" with them if he wants to.

.​

 

[Zincwarrior]

I would strongly suggest board members thoroughly view their state's laws for self defense, as they may differ strongly by state.

 

[BlackSand]

I would strongly suggest board members thoroughly view their state's laws for self defense, as they may differ strongly by state.

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Absolutely ...
And if you don't like them ... Or want them to better protect your Rights ...
Petition your State Legislature to change them ... And if possible ... Send it all to a vote by the People ...
And add it in an Amendment to your State Constitution ... If it isn't already there.

.​

 

[SavannahMann]

Savannah Mann will be available with more legal advice at the Lawyers R Us kiosk in your local Wally World.

Somewhere in this nation there is the worst lawyer in the world. I mean he barely passed Law School and somehow squeaked through the BAR exam. He is the worst Lawyer in the world. And this individual. The worst Lawyer in the world will tell you not to talk to cops.

I got my advice from lawyers and the training course I went through when I got my CCW. I got it again from the USCCA when I signed up.

Now the same advice from three separate sources would for me, and rational people, mean it was probably good advice.

But let’s consider. Let’s say you are a cop who shoots someone in the Line of Duty. Guess what. They aren’t going to ask you any questions. Your fellow cops won’t ask anything of you. They will wait and let you talk to a lawyer first. In many states that is literally the law under the Law Enforcement Officers Bill of Rights. In most of the remaining states that is the requirement under the Policeman’s Union Agreement.

Now if the Cops insist that a fellow Cop has a lawyer present before they are questioned. Why is it bad advice to do that yourself? Cops have a hell of a lot more authority and legal power than you do as a private citizen.

But you do what you want. The fellows in Brunswick did, and sure enough their explanation to the cops about what happened was used against them in court to help secure their conviction.

 

[toobfreak]

When is it OK to shoot trespassers?​

The minute they trespass. Just be sure to get rid of the body or at least get it off your land. At worse, if you have to, put a weapon in his hand, injure yourself and say you had no choice, you were in a fight for your life against the invading heathens.

Then sue Joe Biden for not doing his job and protecting you, your land, and your country from these dirty invaders.

 

[Blues Man]

Amazing that you democrats are abandoning ship. If I was responsible for the vegetable, I would too. Your accusations about people you have never met based on fifty word posts on the internet show you to be the one lacking in dimension. Run along with your pompous, holier than thou attitude. You are the guy I see in Macy's with your hog leg securely strapped. LMAO.View attachment 755040

I have never once voted for a democrat but you on the other hand have always been a shallow two dimensional thinker.

Once again killing a person for no other reason than he stepped on a blade of your grass is murder. Anyone so afraid and paranoid as to think like that is to mentally unstable to own guns.

 

[Blues Man]

The minute they trespass. Just be sure to get rid of the body or at least get it off your land. At worse, if you have to, put a weapon in his hand, injure yourself and say you had no choice, you were in a fight for your life against the invading heathens.

Then sue Joe Biden for not doing his job and protecting you, your land, and your country from these dirty invaders.

So then you are admitting you know that you would be committing murder and you still say you would do it?

You're no better than any other murderer or criminal are you?

 

[Concerned American]

Anyone so afraid and paranoid as to think like that is to mentally unstable to own guns.

Says the guy who can't go into Macy's without being strapped. It is truly a shallow thinker who makes judgements on people that they know absolutely NOTHING about. Run along snowflake. Quit lying about being a democrat--it fits you well.

 

[toobfreak]

So then you are admitting you know that you would be committing murder

Lessee, invader violates federal law knowingly planning and invading a foreign country with no respect for land or law or private property willing to do anything if confronted putting my life and my family's on the line all the while representing a quintessential burden to the entire country?

No. Obviously, we are dealing with an individual who at best has no life or value wherever he came from and certainly none here. I'm simply removing a problem to make room for his brothers when they too decide to invade other countries instead of remaining home and working to solve his own problems at home for his fellow cousins!

In other words, what most any other country would do to deal with invaders. Hopefully, the message will start to get back that coming here is not the great option they were sold into believing!

Invade my property and you too can find out the rich loam of my compost pile, who knows, you might even grow some fine, plump, shiny tomatoes next season for the hogs!

 

[Concerned American]

Somewhere in this nation there is the worst lawyer in the world. I mean he barely passed Law School and somehow squeaked through the BAR exam. He is the worst Lawyer in the world. And this individual. The worst Lawyer in the world will tell you not to talk to cops.

I got my advice from lawyers and the training course I went through when I got my CCW. I got it again from the USCCA when I signed up.

Now the same advice from three separate sources would for me, and rational people, mean it was probably good advice.

But let’s consider. Let’s say you are a cop who shoots someone in the Line of Duty. Guess what. They aren’t going to ask you any questions. Your fellow cops won’t ask anything of you. They will wait and let you talk to a lawyer first. In many states that is literally the law under the Law Enforcement Officers Bill of Rights. In most of the remaining states that is the requirement under the Policeman’s Union Agreement.I

Now if the Cops insist that a fellow Cop has a lawyer present before they are questioned. Why is it bad advice to do that yourself? Cops have a hell of a lot more authority and legal power than you do as a private citizen.

But you do what you want. The fellows in Brunswick did, and sure enough their explanation to the cops about what happened was used against them in court to help secure their conviction.

I would direct you to post #89, faux esq.

 

[Blues Man]

Says the guy who can't go into Macy's without being strapped. It is truly a shallow thinker who makes judgements on people that they know absolutely NOTHING about. Run along snowflake. Quit lying about being a democrat--it fits you well.

How do you know where and when I carry? I

You internet gunslingers all talk a good game and quite frankly sound like a bunch of kids on a playground all bluster and braggadocio.

And just because you are too shallow a thinker to understand that there are more than 2 choices of political ideology and that everyone needs to be in one of 2 pigeonholes don't assume everyone you disagree with is as limited intellectually as you.

Yes I carry but unlike you internet tough guys I actually feel the weight of responsibility on me when I carry. How many times have any of you been in a real situation where you had to draw a weapon and not pretend internet scenarios where you'll kill someone for stepping on your grass?

I have had to draw my weapon on 2 different occasions and I am glad I never had to shoot and possibly kill a person. You all seem to be looking forward to the chance to kill someone.

 

[Blues Man]

Lessee, invader violates federal law knowingly planning and invading a foreign country with no respect for land or law or private property willing to do anything if confronted putting my life and my family's on the line all the while representing a quintessential burden to the entire country?

No. Obviously, we are dealing with an individual who at best has no life or value wherever he came from and certainly none here. I'm simply removing a problem to make room for his brothers when they too decide to invade other countries instead of remaining home and working to solve his own problems at home for his fellow cousins!

In other words, what most any other country would do to deal with invaders. Hopefully, the message will start to get back that coming here is not the great option they were sold into believing!

Invade my property and you too can find out the rich loam of my compost pile, who knows, you might even grow some fine, plump, shiny tomatoes next season for the hogs!

It's not your place to be judge jury and executioner.

And you all sound like a bunch of boys on a playground.

"I'll kill you if you step on my piece of dirt"

I'll give odds that none of you internet gunslingers would ever kill a person and bury the body just because he stepped on your piece of dirt. But maybe that's me giving you all too much credit.

 

[BlackSand]

How do you know where and when I carry? I

You internet gunslingers all talk a good game and quite frankly sound like a bunch of kids on a playground all bluster and braggadocio.

And just because you are too shallow a thinker to understand that there are more than 2 choices of political ideology and that everyone needs to be in one of 2 pigeonholes don't assume everyone you disagree with is as limited intellectually as you.

Yes I carry but unlike you internet tough guys I actually feel the weight of responsibility on me when I carry. How many times have any of you been in a real situation where you had to draw a weapon and not pretend internet scenarios where you'll kill someone for stepping on your grass?

I have had to draw my weapon on 2 different occasions and I am glad I never had to shoot and possibly kill a person. You all seem to be looking forward to the chance to kill someone.

.

There you go ...
Trying to play "rock, paper, scissors" again ...

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