Zone1 When I look at mama's old Bible

[Moonglow]

On here ai have quite a few

Rats don't count.

 

[Gary Seven]

Not really; it comes from the culture you were raised in. You cannot claim it hasn't influenced you or anybody else raised in the West. As for 'common sense', just looking at all the Democrat voters and people who buy iceberg lettuce pretty much points to a major lack of that in general.


According to who? Some countries have 'less crime' because they simply don't keep statistics, and the state itself does most of the murdering. As Christianity has declined in the US, the violence and crime has increased significantly. It isn't the Christians and Jews running around slinging dope and doing drivebys and making sexually mutiliating children a fashion.

Many things have influenced me. Some christians have influenced me. Many of my best friends AND girlfriends AND my wife are catholic. One or two of my family members don't completely approve of the fact that I gravitate to eastern mysticism, Hinduism, Buddhism, paganism, even Sufism. These are things that NO ONE impressed on me personally. I also occasionally have had major moral rifts with one or two family members. You would be partyl right about the cultural part, with most people anyway, because most people are quite loyal to whatever religion their family raised them by. A few exceptions, but most of the time true.

My grandfather and grandmpther were diehard democrats. They were also two of the kindest and most moral yet "mind your business" type of people I ever knew. Same with my mom. My older uncle was a Republican and my younger uncle was Democrat. Yet I''m a registered Republican and have no immediate desire to change that. There is no wisdom in your iceberg lettuce generalization. It's superficial bullshit. Many Republicans have lousy taste too. Don't be so shallow.

I'm a peaceful person. Ive hit about two people in my life and both times in self defense. Yet I carry a gun almost every day, yet am thankful I've never had to use it. Abrhamic religions are truly at the bottom of my list of places to turn for spiritual guidance, yet they ARE on my list. I'm a spiritual person and I see spirit everywhere. There are far more religions and philosophies that I have gravitated to perosnally because I simply found meaning and salvation in it by personal experience. No person or culture showed it to me or brought me there. This was the thesis of my previous post, but you missed it.

 

[Hafar1014]

Many things have influenced me. Some christians have influenced me. Many of my best friends AND girlfriends AND my wife are catholic. One or two of my family members don't completely approve of the fact that I gravitate to eastern mysticism, Hinduism, Buddhism, paganism, even Sufism. These are things that NO ONE impressed on me personally. I also occasionally have had major moral rifts with one or two family members. You would be partyl right about the cultural part, with most people anyway, because most people are quite loyal to whatever religion their family raised them by. A few exceptions, but most of the time true.

My grandfather and grandmpther were diehard democrats. They were also two of the kindest and most moral yet "mind your business" type of people I ever knew. Same with my mom. My older uncle was a Republican and my younger uncle was Democrat. Yet I''m a registered Republican and have no immediate desire to change that. There is no wisdom in your iceberg lettuce generalization. It's superficial bullshit. Many Republicans have lousy taste too. Don't be so shallow.

I'm a peaceful person. Ive hit about two people in my life and both times in self defense. Yet I carry a gun almost every day, yet am thankful I've never had to use it. Abrhamic religions are truly at the bottom of my list of places to turn for spiritual guidance, yet they ARE on my list. I'm a spiritual person and I see spirit everywhere. There are far more religions and philosophies that I have gravitated to perosnally because I simply found meaning and salvation in it by personal experience. No person or culture showed it to me or brought me there. This was the thesis of my previous post, but you missed it.

We can take piece from many religions and put them together. The greatest influence on your morals is your parents when your growing up.

 

[Hafar1014]

Ed,..... Show me exactly where it states that the "Jews" only, left Egypt, & were given The Ten Commandments Covenant at Mt. Sinai.

Show me where Kings David, & Solomon's people were "Jews Only".

What do you think they were Southern Baptists

 

[ding]

Rats don't count.

You and I finally agree on something. Watch out for lightening.

 

[Gary Seven]

We can take piece from many religions and put them together. The greatest influence on your morals is your parents when your growing up.

Nah, I'm considerably different than my parents. One uncle and many quite older friends I had through the years shaped my moral core.more than most anyone else, even my peers in school whom I mostly didn't like. My mother never fully understood me although she meant well. Not everyone walks the same road, Haffy. It's true that many people are sheep-like and simply follow their immediate family unconditionally but there also many exceptions to that rule.

Just a parallel example; It's true that about 40% of the people in my city are sports obsessed. That kind of makes them a "majority" in a sense, because they are the largest group invested in one unified interest,...yet that other 60% is diverse and more individualistic and makes up the LARGER portion of the population. So it's a matter of perspective which is really the majority. Most people stick with whatever religion their family introduced them to, and often that's mostly because they want to "belong" more than they believe..I've always been extremely independent about my beliefs and continue to pursue further spiritual expansion well into my 50's. There are plenty of people like me who are not afraid to stray from the pack intellectually or spiritually early in life and pursue their own vision.

 

[Hafar1014]

Nah, I'm considerably different than my parents. One uncle and many quite older friends I had through the years shaped my moral core.more than most anyone else, even my peers in school whom I mostly didn't like. My mother never fully understood me although she meant well. Not everyone walks the same road, Haffy. It's true that many people are sheep-like and simply follow their immediate family unconditionally but there also many exceptions to that rule.

Just a parallel example; It's true that about 40% of the people in my city are sports obsessed. That kind of makes them a "majority" in a sense, because they are the largest group invested in one unified interest,...yet that other 60% is diverse and more individualistic and makes up the LARGER portion of the population. So it's a matter of perspective which is really the majority. Most people stick with whatever religion their family introduced them to, and often that's mostly because they want to "belong" more than they believe..I've always been extremely independent about my beliefs and continue to pursue further spiritual expansion well into my 50's. There are plenty of people like me who are not afraid to stray from the pack intellectually or spiritually early in life and pursue their own vision.

Your basic personality is developed by the time your 7. The people you spend the most time with will have the most influence. That doesnt lock you in we grow and change. Its a good thing to explore spirituality and not blindly accept the traditional religions. There s so much they dont know yet think they know and never question it.
When you talk about the majority of people in your culture/city we get into Urie Bronfenbrenner's model of development
Urie Bronfenbrenner was a Russian-born American psychologist best known for developing the Ecological Systems Theory. His framework dictates that a person’s development is influenced by several overlapping, interconnected environmental layers—from their immediate family and school to broader cultural, societal, and historical forces. [1, 2, 3]
Bronfenbrenner’s theory categorizes a person's environment into five distinct, interacting levels: [1, 2]

• Microsystem: The most immediate environment and people a person directly interacts with, such as parents, siblings, teachers, and close friends. [1]
• Mesosystem: The relationships and connections between different microsystems. For example, how a child's parents interact with their teachers or peers. [1, 2]
• Exosystem: Broader social settings that do not include the person directly but still impact them. An example is a parent's workplace, which could affect family dynamics or household income. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Macrosystem: The overarching cultural values, laws, socioeconomic status, and societal beliefs that shape a person's life. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• Chronosystem: The dimension of time, encompassing major life transitions, historical events, and environmental changes that occur over an individual's lifespan. [1, 2, 3]

To get the whole picture look at Eriksons model and Maslows hierarchy of needs. They all work together. How much we understand about ourselves gives us more wisdom and insight

 

[Meriweather]

Most people stick with whatever religion their family introduced them to, and often that's mostly because they want to "belong" more than they believe..I've always been extremely independent about my beliefs and continue to pursue further spiritual expansion well into my 50's. There are plenty of people like me who are not afraid to stray from the pack intellectually or spiritually early in life and pursue their own vision.

To some extent, I disagree with this. I grew up in an extended family of Catholics, Protestants, atheists, and Buddhists. Those of us who were Catholic/remained Catholic all chose individually unique reasons for being Catholic and also chose different paths and what focused and absorbed us. That being true for Catholics, I imagine it is much the same for families who are completely Protestant, completely Buddhist, and even completely atheist. I'll submit that we will find as many "free-thinkers" within their family faith as we will outside their family faith.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I did read the Bible, when I was young. As ordered by my church. It disgusted me so deeply on a moral level, that it maybe was the main impetus for leaving the Christian cult and never looking back. Even at that age, i found the magical nonsense to be a bit laughable. But I expected that. What shocked me was how morally bankrupt the god character in the Bible is and how immoral the entire concept was of transferring the responsibility for your own crimes and errors to someone else. Some of the same adults in my life who were preaching about personal responsibility 6 days a week were more than happy to preach on day 7 that all my responsibility was given over to a magical zombie king, if I just uttered the right words.

There are many more examples.

 

[Gary Seven]

Your basic personality is developed by the time your 7. The people you spend the most time with will have the most influence. That doesnt lock you in we grow and change. Its a good thing to explore spirituality and not blindly accept the traditional religions. There s so much they dont know yet think they know and never question it.
When you talk about the majority of people in your culture/city we get into Urie Bronfenbrenner's model of development
Urie Bronfenbrenner was a Russian-born American psychologist best known for developing the Ecological Systems Theory. His framework dictates that a person’s development is influenced by several overlapping, interconnected environmental layers—from their immediate family and school to broader cultural, societal, and historical forces. [1, 2, 3]
Bronfenbrenner’s theory categorizes a person's environment into five distinct, interacting levels: [1, 2]

• Microsystem: The most immediate environment and people a person directly interacts with, such as parents, siblings, teachers, and close friends. [1]
• Mesosystem: The relationships and connections between different microsystems. For example, how a child's parents interact with their teachers or peers. [1, 2]
• Exosystem: Broader social settings that do not include the person directly but still impact them. An example is a parent's workplace, which could affect family dynamics or household income. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Macrosystem: The overarching cultural values, laws, socioeconomic status, and societal beliefs that shape a person's life. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• Chronosystem: The dimension of time, encompassing major life transitions, historical events, and environmental changes that occur over an individual's lifespan. [1, 2, 3]

To get the whole picture look at Eriksons model and Maslows hierarchy of needs. They all work together. How much we understand about ourselves gives us more wisdom and insight

Welllll, you can keep spouting textbook stuff if you want. Asperger's used to be a thing too until people learned more about the sheer vastness of the autistic spectrum and that too many "rules" retard comprehension rather than enhance it. But we digress. This thread is about the Bible and religion. I have said in other threads, religions are like spiritual vehicles and people can be choosy over the brand, but the closer you get to the ultimate destination the brand of vehicle means less and less until it really means nothing at all. We only needed to believe it does to initially get on board to our journey at all.

And I can say that many people I have been aquatinted with over many years are NOT the same as they are when they were younger. Things like IQs don't change very much, but personalities can change greatly.

 

[Hafar1014]

Welllll, you can keep spouting textbook stuff if you want. Asperger's used to be a thing too until people learned more about the sheer vastness of the autistic spectrum and that too many "rules" retard comprehension.of.i5jrather than enhance it.

Those are models we use in psychology today and they are very helpful. Asperger's still exists we call it high functioning autism. Its easy to recognize. But we dont define its as disorder its a personality type

 

[Gary Seven]

Those are models we use in psychology today and they are very helpful. Asperger's still exists we call it high functioning autism. Its easy to recognize. But we dont define its as disorder its a personality type

You have answered while I was adding more to my post. I already addressed these models can be as limited as they are helpful. They need to be seen that way from the moment they are implemented.

 

[Meriweather]

I did read the Bible, when I was young. As ordered by my church. It disgusted me so deeply on a moral level, that it maybe was the main impetus for leaving the Christian cult and never looking back. Even at that age, i found the magical nonsense to be a bit laughable. But I expected that. What shocked me was how morally bankrupt the god character in the Bible is and how immoral the entire concept was of transferring the responsibility for your own crimes and errors to someone else. Some of the same adults in my life who were preaching about personal responsibility 6 days a week were more than happy to preach on day 7 that all my responsibility was given over to a magical zombie king, if I just uttered the right words.

There are many more examples.

Seek and find God. Then read the Bible. When you read, keep in mind--and be ready to identify--the various literary styles being used. Also try reading it from God's point of view. Finally, what was the original author attempting to convey to his original audience.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Seek and find God. Then read the Bible. When you read, keep in mind--and be ready to identify--the various literary styles being used. Also try reading it from God's point of view. Finally, what was the original author attempting to convey to his original audience.

I suppose i could take the same approach to reading about the Holocaust.

But I won't do that, because i am not mentally handicapped first by a presumption of the truth of the premise that Hitler was actually a great guy.

But thanks.

 

[Hafar1014]

You have answered while I was adding more to my post. I already addressed these models can be as limited as they are helpful. They need to be seen that way from the moment they are implemented.

You can compare your experiences at any time

 

[Gary Seven]

Those are models we use in psychology today and they are very helpful. Asperger's still exists we call it high functioning autism. Its easy to recognize. But we dont define its as disorder its a personality type

Asperger's does not still exist. It was too narrow a term. Nobody is exclusively "Asperger's". People who have those traits have been assimilated into what they call level 1 autism. Many of these things overlap. They are still struggling to find ways to define. I know because I'm the parent of a 19-year-old high functioning autistic person and have witnessed the entire development of these theories and textbook terminologies from the beginning to the present. And they have always been as limiting as they are helpful. The people and professionals who have been the most helpful and giving my son support and therapy are the ones (real professionals with doctorates in some cases) who adhere the least to these textbook approaches. They may be forced to to keep their licenses but my son has made his greatest progress in dealing with his autism without too much of the textbook model b*******t. Sad but true and I would not have thought so 12 years ago. But now it's obvious.

 

[Hafar1014]

Asperger's does not still exist. It was too narrow a term. Nobody is exclusively "Asperger's". People who have those traits have been assimilated into what they call level 1 autism. Many of these things overlap. They are still struggling to find ways to define. I know because I'm the parent of a 19-year-old high functioning autistic person and have witnessed the entire development of these theories and textbook terminologies from the beginning to the present. And they have always been as limiting as they are helpful. The people and professionals who have been the most helpful and giving my son support and therapy are the ones (real professionals with doctorates in some cases) who adhere the least to these textbook approaches. They may be forced to to keep their licenses but my son has made his greatest progress in dealing with his autism without too much of the textbook model b*******t. Sad but true and I would not have thought so 12 years ago. But now it's obvious.

Yes it does I can spot it in seconds. We dont use that term but there are basic behaviors. Some of them advantages. The ability too organize, they make great engineers and have a superior ability to understand how complicated machines work. There is also a lot of misdiagnosis involved as well. They often have a problem reading emotional non verbal expressions. They like to collect things. There may be attachment and relationship issues. Today we regard it as normal.

 

[Meriweather]

I suppose i could take the same approach to reading about the Holocaust.

But I won't do that, because i am not mentally handicapped first by a presumption of the truth of the premise that Hitler was actually a great guy.

But thanks.

Comparing Hitler to God is not even an analogy, let alone a good one. Again, seek and find God. Forget about changing the topic to the Holocaust and/or Hitler. Question: What have you made your highest good?

 

[Gary Seven]

Yes it does I can spot it in seconds. We dont use that term but there are basic behaviors. Some of them advantages. The ability too organize, they make great engineers and have a superior ability to understand how complicated machines work. There is also a lot of misdiagnosis involved as well. They often have a problem reading emotional non verbal expressions. They like to collect things. There may be attachment and relationship issues. Today we regard it as normal.

Nope, sorry. After 19 years of working with my son and countless professionals I know that these things overlap too much to be fully realistic for a diagnosis that leads to effective treatment, and to break it down as such, which is WHY it was assimilated into a larger umbrella and will probably continue to be as knowledge progresses beyond these. Even my son's main doctor concurs. The man doesn't bother with it anymore. He totally disregards it, yet continues to provide the best advice for my son we have had to date. I too can spot an "Asperger's" type symptom. The thing is Asperger's itself IS the symptom. It's not a personality type or a diagnosis. Just like some people get itchy skin from an allergy while others may get an itchy nose. Asperger's is an "itchy something". They also try to classify OCD and ADHD separately. OCD is a often the result of a person COMPENSATING for ADHD, or perhaps another condition. OCD is also more a symptom and a reaction than a condition.

As a person who diagnosed myself and a number of people I have known with various ailments when doctors failed I have learned to trust my instincts alot and work with them. There much I don't know because I didn't go to med school, but the lack of creative insight that many people with twice my education seem to have seems to almost invalidate their educational level sometimes.

 

[Robert W]

I'll point something out here.

If there was no free will, how did a third of the heavenly host wind up rebelling against God when Satan tried to supplant God?

Angels aren't automatons. Nor are we.

"Choose ye this day whom ye will serve."

-Exerpt from John 24:15

Notice the operative word "choose."

Yes God knows, he knows every eventuality. But yet he lets us choose. He is prepared to act no matter what we decide.

As for eternal punishment, God is infinite, we as his creations are finite. You can't as a finite creation expect to sin against an infinite being and not expect infinite consequences.

Also, the eternal is also based on one's continued rejection of Christ. Just as your rejection of him is infinite, so too is your punishment. You are given a choice. The punishment matches.

But here's the fun part: Jesus died on the cross for our sins, he took on the consequences of our sin, the infinite wrath of an infinite being and was resurrected three days later. To reject that is to choose infinite punishment in the end. This was and is an unfathomable act of mercy. Without that, we would all be doomed to eternal punishment.

I was worried when TNharley took it off topic. Kudos for waiting tor the proper moment to return it to your actual topic.