When I first truly realized that God exists.......

[ding]

Anything you imagine "religious" people are capable of, atheists are far worse.

Of course that is stupid and wrong.

Stalinism and leninism were both religions. Thats that's the method they used to get people to comply. Have you been alive if you would have been one of them. Gleefully.

Actually they believed exactly as you do. That religion should be opposed.

 

[ding]

Actually that is exactly what you did.

Haha...the pee wee herman defense. Poor ding...

No. It is exactly what you did.

Yes ding, you said that already. I see it is tantrum time.

Really? what have I done that qualifies as a tantrum?

 

[barn sour]

Which is why you try to discredit the fact that the Jews raised standards heads and shoulders above their contemporaries.

Sure they did. Christians, too. They finally set us on a path of prosperity that led to great minds arising (a.phenomenon delayed by a good 1000+ years by religious nonsense in the dark ages). Now, whether the early empires did this for baby jesus, or for yahweh, or for power and wealth is its own discussion. But a short one.

Their handicap -- mysticism-fueled immorality and ignorance -- took 1000 years to overcome in order to recover the hellenistic and classical ideas they had, themselves, squashed. Then secular philosophies based on socratic and aristotelean thought once again began to emerge. This brought us the enlightenment. No, the religions that stood there and didn't just not help, but even pushed back against this for 1600 years, get zero credit for this enlightenment. Zilch. Nada.

Apparently you have never actually read the Old Testament. That's okay. Very few people have done more than pick and choose. Sin entered the world when Adam sinned. You'll see a lot of sin in the OT. Just as you see a lot of sin today. If you think man has somehow improved in this modern world, then you are simply living in LaLa Land.

Yes, quite the AGE of ENLIGHTENMENT we're seeing all around us.

The Enlightenment can be described as the period of time when the waning influence of the Christian Church in Europe allowed for the blossoming expression of music, arts, literature and science. The Church literally held back western civilization for 800 years.

Yet, Christianity and FAITH have remained the same.

The "Church" is not the same as the Christian faith. Unless you understand that, you won't understand.

BTW, you should actually read the Genesis fable. Sin already existed before that fruit theft incident. You have never taken the time to read the fable or make any attempt to understand the contradictions. Given the story, man did not commit the first sin-- Lucifer did, and thus became Satan. Religionists literally don't understand that before man was created, there had to be a conflict that allowed Lucifer to become the tempter in the test the gods offers to his unenlightened creations, Adam and Eve. Clearly, the gods have created evil, and allowed it to flourish even before Man is created. Per the fable, the tree of knowledge of good and evil already existed before the appearance of A&E.

If you would read more carefully, you'd see I said that "SIN ENTERED THE WORLD" when Adam sinned. Sin and death entered the world when Adam sinned.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

Clearly, you are under the impression that there are "gods"....proving you are not really enlightened at all.

I'm not so sure that Christianity and faith have remained the same. There are dozens of sects / subsects of Christianity, many of them hostile to one another.

It doesn't matter how many sects there are. There is only one Truth, and that has been in effect since the Apostle Paul preached salvation by grace through faith. It's fundamental and can be traced back to the time of Christ.

You need to actually study your Bible'ology. Sin had already entered the world (the tree of knowledge of good and evil), before A&E. It's spelled out for you but you have never taken the time to actually understand the candle.

I'm sorry but it almost seems like you think a little too highly of yourself on this subject. I've been reading and studying the Bible for fifty years. There was nothing wrong with the tree of knowledge, sin was not in the tree, and it wasn't until Adam disobeyed God that sin entered the world. Adam broke God's law -- sin is transgression of the law. Adam's disobedience to God was what brought sin and death into the world. Don't you believe what Scripture says, or are you looking to some "candle" for your inspiration? Please feel free to share. I'll certainly listen. A discussion would be better than suggesting I've "never taken the time"....since I have spent half a century reading God's word.

Quiz: What was the punishment for fruit theft?

Thouest shall actually readeth them-there Bibles": Romans 5:12(a)

The punishment wasn't for "fruit theft". And let me help you with that quote since you didn't seem to read it. Romans 512 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Clearly, you are not understanding the triune nature of the gods... proving you are not a true Christian at all.

Wow, this is fun. There is ONE GOD, and He is triune. ONE GOD. The Lord thy God is ONE. There are not three gods. There is only ONE. And yes, that ONE God is triune. I understand His nature quite well. I also know exactly what the Bible says about HIM.

Of course it matters how many sects there are. It matters how may religions there are as these religions all claim to be the "one twoof". These twoofers have a history of slaughtering one another to prove just as twoof-ful they are. Your claims to the supremacy of your gods and your religion are similar to the claims made by all the other religions.

No religion claims itself secondary in comparison to its competition. That would dismantle the authority of every religion ("Well, we're sort of right," said the Dalai Lama, "But you know, maybe those Moslems are really right." Uh, not likely.)

What does it matter how long you you have been reading the Bibles? Not understanding what you read only reinforces confusion. It seems you have a profound misunderstanding of a core element of the Genesis fable; that sin existed prior to the introduction of A&E and that the gods ultimately knew A&E would fail the test. That seemingly minor crime of fruit theft had lasting implications for all of humanity. Rote memorization of Bible verses without ever taking a critical examination of the material is a problem shared by most religionists.

Try and read the fable in context. The gods put forth a test to two humans without giving them either the ability to make a considered choice nor did he bother to tell them the consequences would extend to every person born after them.

This is strange. A supposed god in many forms, both human and supernatural and you're claiming "ONE GOD"? That sounds like many, or at least a triune, maybe several, or a few. It seems odd to suggest you know your gods when you seem to hold some rather confused impressions of these gods who were invented by Men who are largely unknown,

It's really quite humorous to be talking to someone who thinks the Bible is a fable and yet continues to lecture me about what I know to be Truth.

Yep, I know what happened with Satan (it's right there in the Bible), and yes, I understand God gave Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him, and yes, I know it was no surprise that the free will He gave them would result in what happened. That's all in the Bible, too. I can't help it if you don't believe what is clearly taught in the Bible.

I'm sorry you seem unable to understand how our ONE God can be three persons. Always one and always united. But, that, too is clearly shown and explained in the Bible. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Just because you call it "fable" doesn't make you right. It simply shows you remain in the dark.

I think it's entirely appropriate to lecture the religious about their Gods and their Bibles when they're rather sketchy on the details. What you left out in your second paragraph was that the Gods condemning all of humanity for the actions of A&E. Per the fable, all of humanity is born with original sin. For the more excitable religionists, believing that they are evil and base is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

As to all of the Bible given "inspiration" by the gods, that's rather naive, If Christians were willing to be objective; they would admit they have no corroboration that any of the gospels were authored by Luke, Matthew, Mark or John. They are simply accepting they were.

What more do you need to know other than the original sin was failing to take accountability. It wasn't disobeying God that was the original sin. We are expected to fail. What we aren't expected to do is deny being honest about it.

That's true. With the transgression, forgiveness can come.

 

[barn sour]

They were being led by a pillar of cloud and fire....by God.

Well you sound completely insane.

As you do to me?

 

[ding]

Which is why you try to discredit the fact that the Jews raised standards heads and shoulders above their contemporaries.

Sure they did. Christians, too. They finally set us on a path of prosperity that led to great minds arising (a.phenomenon delayed by a good 1000+ years by religious nonsense in the dark ages). Now, whether the early empires did this for baby jesus, or for yahweh, or for power and wealth is its own discussion. But a short one.

Their handicap -- mysticism-fueled immorality and ignorance -- took 1000 years to overcome in order to recover the hellenistic and classical ideas they had, themselves, squashed. Then secular philosophies based on socratic and aristotelean thought once again began to emerge. This brought us the enlightenment. No, the religions that stood there and didn't just not help, but even pushed back against this for 1600 years, get zero credit for this enlightenment. Zilch. Nada.

Apparently you have never actually read the Old Testament. That's okay. Very few people have done more than pick and choose. Sin entered the world when Adam sinned. You'll see a lot of sin in the OT. Just as you see a lot of sin today. If you think man has somehow improved in this modern world, then you are simply living in LaLa Land.

Yes, quite the AGE of ENLIGHTENMENT we're seeing all around us.

The Enlightenment can be described as the period of time when the waning influence of the Christian Church in Europe allowed for the blossoming expression of music, arts, literature and science. The Church literally held back western civilization for 800 years.

Yet, Christianity and FAITH have remained the same.

The "Church" is not the same as the Christian faith. Unless you understand that, you won't understand.

BTW, you should actually read the Genesis fable. Sin already existed before that fruit theft incident. You have never taken the time to read the fable or make any attempt to understand the contradictions. Given the story, man did not commit the first sin-- Lucifer did, and thus became Satan. Religionists literally don't understand that before man was created, there had to be a conflict that allowed Lucifer to become the tempter in the test the gods offers to his unenlightened creations, Adam and Eve. Clearly, the gods have created evil, and allowed it to flourish even before Man is created. Per the fable, the tree of knowledge of good and evil already existed before the appearance of A&E.

If you would read more carefully, you'd see I said that "SIN ENTERED THE WORLD" when Adam sinned. Sin and death entered the world when Adam sinned.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Romans 5:12

Clearly, you are under the impression that there are "gods"....proving you are not really enlightened at all.

I'm not so sure that Christianity and faith have remained the same. There are dozens of sects / subsects of Christianity, many of them hostile to one another.

It doesn't matter how many sects there are. There is only one Truth, and that has been in effect since the Apostle Paul preached salvation by grace through faith. It's fundamental and can be traced back to the time of Christ.

You need to actually study your Bible'ology. Sin had already entered the world (the tree of knowledge of good and evil), before A&E. It's spelled out for you but you have never taken the time to actually understand the candle.

I'm sorry but it almost seems like you think a little too highly of yourself on this subject. I've been reading and studying the Bible for fifty years. There was nothing wrong with the tree of knowledge, sin was not in the tree, and it wasn't until Adam disobeyed God that sin entered the world. Adam broke God's law -- sin is transgression of the law. Adam's disobedience to God was what brought sin and death into the world. Don't you believe what Scripture says, or are you looking to some "candle" for your inspiration? Please feel free to share. I'll certainly listen. A discussion would be better than suggesting I've "never taken the time"....since I have spent half a century reading God's word.

Quiz: What was the punishment for fruit theft?

Thouest shall actually readeth them-there Bibles": Romans 5:12(a)

The punishment wasn't for "fruit theft". And let me help you with that quote since you didn't seem to read it. Romans 512 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Clearly, you are not understanding the triune nature of the gods... proving you are not a true Christian at all.

Wow, this is fun. There is ONE GOD, and He is triune. ONE GOD. The Lord thy God is ONE. There are not three gods. There is only ONE. And yes, that ONE God is triune. I understand His nature quite well. I also know exactly what the Bible says about HIM.

Of course it matters how many sects there are. It matters how may religions there are as these religions all claim to be the "one twoof". These twoofers have a history of slaughtering one another to prove just as twoof-ful they are. Your claims to the supremacy of your gods and your religion are similar to the claims made by all the other religions.

No religion claims itself secondary in comparison to its competition. That would dismantle the authority of every religion ("Well, we're sort of right," said the Dalai Lama, "But you know, maybe those Moslems are really right." Uh, not likely.)

What does it matter how long you you have been reading the Bibles? Not understanding what you read only reinforces confusion. It seems you have a profound misunderstanding of a core element of the Genesis fable; that sin existed prior to the introduction of A&E and that the gods ultimately knew A&E would fail the test. That seemingly minor crime of fruit theft had lasting implications for all of humanity. Rote memorization of Bible verses without ever taking a critical examination of the material is a problem shared by most religionists.

Try and read the fable in context. The gods put forth a test to two humans without giving them either the ability to make a considered choice nor did he bother to tell them the consequences would extend to every person born after them.

This is strange. A supposed god in many forms, both human and supernatural and you're claiming "ONE GOD"? That sounds like many, or at least a triune, maybe several, or a few. It seems odd to suggest you know your gods when you seem to hold some rather confused impressions of these gods who were invented by Men who are largely unknown,

It's really quite humorous to be talking to someone who thinks the Bible is a fable and yet continues to lecture me about what I know to be Truth.

Yep, I know what happened with Satan (it's right there in the Bible), and yes, I understand God gave Adam and Eve a choice to obey Him, and yes, I know it was no surprise that the free will He gave them would result in what happened. That's all in the Bible, too. I can't help it if you don't believe what is clearly taught in the Bible.

I'm sorry you seem unable to understand how our ONE God can be three persons. Always one and always united. But, that, too is clearly shown and explained in the Bible. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Just because you call it "fable" doesn't make you right. It simply shows you remain in the dark.

I think it's entirely appropriate to lecture the religious about their Gods and their Bibles when they're rather sketchy on the details. What you left out in your second paragraph was that the Gods condemning all of humanity for the actions of A&E. Per the fable, all of humanity is born with original sin. For the more excitable religionists, believing that they are evil and base is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

As to all of the Bible given "inspiration" by the gods, that's rather naive, If Christians were willing to be objective; they would admit they have no corroboration that any of the gospels were authored by Luke, Matthew, Mark or John. They are simply accepting they were.

What more do you need to know other than the original sin was failing to take accountability. It wasn't disobeying God that was the original sin. We are expected to fail. What we aren't expected to do is deny being honest about it.

That's true. With the transgression, forgiveness can come.

Yes, you can't fix what you don't acknowledge what is broke.

 

[ding]

I actually feel sorry for that dude. He has some deep seated problems.

 

[BreezeWood]

I actually feel sorry for that dude. He has some deep seated problems.

.
liar ...

 

[ding]

I actually feel sorry for that dude. He has some deep seated problems.

I actually feel sorry for that dude. He has some deep seated problems.

.
liar ...

No. I do. He has serious issues to behave the way he does. So do you. But I don't feel sorry for you.

 

[barn sour]

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses. Can you imagine what they'll say when we let them know believers are no longer under the Law?

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[ding]

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

You can't touch this. The Gospel of Hammer Time

 

[BreezeWood]

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses. Can you imagine what they'll say when we let them know believers are no longer under the Law?

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses.

.
moses was the same - they lied about the tablets etched by the Almighty, they never existed and was a murderer no different than muhammad.

all three desert religions abandoned the religion of antiquity as well those that follow them.

 

[barn sour]

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses. Can you imagine what they'll say when we let them know believers are no longer under the Law?

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses.

.
moses was the same - they lied about the tablets etched by the Almighty, they never existed and was a murderer no different than muhammad.

all three desert religions abandoned the religion of antiquity as well those that follow them.

Nope. Not true.

 

[Hollie]

Because it's clear you're mistaken.

About what, specifically?

You're wrong about the low morality of God's people, for one. You're also mistaken about slavery. An indentured slave, for instance, is not the same as the slavery you seem to be thinking of.

It's pretty typical that religionists will redefine amorality as morality. You are certainly free to redefine slavery as acceptable via sidestepping and equivocation but that serves only as an excuse for a past history of Christian amoral behavior. Slavery has a long and lurid history in Christiandom. Take responsibility for what your ideology has done to humanity.

It's pretty typical that nonbelievers rewrite history to suit their own vain imaginings. Do you know what indentured servitude was? They didn't have a nanny state back in the day that handed out money to people who didn't work. You paint with such a broad brush, I can't even respond. Are you talking about the Jews and their laws? That's what I thought we were talking about. Otherwise, the fact that you blame God for every ill perpetrated in His name is nonsensical.

Your hatred of religion has nothing to do with God. Your hatred should be directed at what man has done in the name of God. I'm surprised you can't see the difference.

Who is rewriting history? It seems to be you in excusing slavery. The problem with your applying equivocation to slavery is that it had consequences for the enslaved. My objection to using the Bibles as a moral guide is based exclusively on the listed ethics in the Bibles which fall far short of present day ethics man applies in modern day civilization. Even the cruelest of penalties, the death penalty, is done more humanely by man than we see that the gods would have it done. Slavery is not condemned in the Bibles but it is in the laws of the USA for instance. Stoning of criminals is a viable method of punishment in the Bibles but it is not acceptable to modern civilized nations. That is why there is such outrage against sharia in Moslem countries. It's not because they go "against the word of the Gods" -- but because they adhere to the word of the Gods. Why is that?

I don't hate your gods. That's more involvement with your gods than I need or want.

The "consequences" for the slaves were horrible under the heathen nations. Under the Jewish nation they were beneficial. So much for your understanding of history and the Bible. God's laws, the Ten Commandments, had no punishments.

It's really not surprising that religionists defend slavery. To condemn it as degrading and dehumanizing would involve having to profoundly question Christian history.

The churches never stood up against slavery or for civil rights. They defended their hatred and intolerance and bigotry by saying this was the way god wants things. You can create a seething cauldron of hell on earth and if enough people believe "this is the way the gods want it" then it will become acceptable. "I am on a mission from God!" cried Hitler publicly and loudly in 1934. I agree. Given what believers of god have done to humanity, he sure was.

As a society, we’re compelled to make value judgments that are not morally conflicted by robotic adherence to an ancient and unyielding dogma that has not evolved from the base instincts that served it 2,000 years ago. Surely some basic morals work well from generation to generation, from society to society. Let's choose wanton murder as a behavior that is socially destructive to a successful species, and murder is – rightfully so - consistently a moral issue that generally maintains its proscription (and sure some societies / ideologies that sabotage this, like the Nazis, Stalin, Christian Holy Warriors, etc. Morals change for reasons both trivial and important. Slavery was once considered a perfectly acceptable aspect of many cultures but forced slavery is so heinous to the perspective of modern societies that it has become morally reprehensible to allow it. However, some Christians still defend.

 

[Hollie]

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses. Can you imagine what they'll say when we let them know believers are no longer under the Law?

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That is a part of the problem with the more excitable Christians. They insist the law doesn't apply to them. They can cite a history of amoral behavior and defend it with a snappy cut and paste verse.

There is definitely a strong link between people who believe fervently in their religions (to the point of railing against any and all who disagree) and an appalling lack of even the most rudimentary levels of reasoned thinking. Having read the Bible cover to cover, I'm not surprised at this interlocking phenomenon-- the Bible advocates ignorance, and religions based on the Bible historically have stood in the way of education and literacy. What better way to convince the populace, if not to keep them illiterate?

 

[barn sour]

Because it's clear you're mistaken.

About what, specifically?

You're wrong about the low morality of God's people, for one. You're also mistaken about slavery. An indentured slave, for instance, is not the same as the slavery you seem to be thinking of.

It's pretty typical that religionists will redefine amorality as morality. You are certainly free to redefine slavery as acceptable via sidestepping and equivocation but that serves only as an excuse for a past history of Christian amoral behavior. Slavery has a long and lurid history in Christiandom. Take responsibility for what your ideology has done to humanity.

It's pretty typical that nonbelievers rewrite history to suit their own vain imaginings. Do you know what indentured servitude was? They didn't have a nanny state back in the day that handed out money to people who didn't work. You paint with such a broad brush, I can't even respond. Are you talking about the Jews and their laws? That's what I thought we were talking about. Otherwise, the fact that you blame God for every ill perpetrated in His name is nonsensical.

Your hatred of religion has nothing to do with God. Your hatred should be directed at what man has done in the name of God. I'm surprised you can't see the difference.

Who is rewriting history? It seems to be you in excusing slavery. The problem with your applying equivocation to slavery is that it had consequences for the enslaved. My objection to using the Bibles as a moral guide is based exclusively on the listed ethics in the Bibles which fall far short of present day ethics man applies in modern day civilization. Even the cruelest of penalties, the death penalty, is done more humanely by man than we see that the gods would have it done. Slavery is not condemned in the Bibles but it is in the laws of the USA for instance. Stoning of criminals is a viable method of punishment in the Bibles but it is not acceptable to modern civilized nations. That is why there is such outrage against sharia in Moslem countries. It's not because they go "against the word of the Gods" -- but because they adhere to the word of the Gods. Why is that?

I don't hate your gods. That's more involvement with your gods than I need or want.

The "consequences" for the slaves were horrible under the heathen nations. Under the Jewish nation they were beneficial. So much for your understanding of history and the Bible. God's laws, the Ten Commandments, had no punishments.

It's really not surprising that religionists defend slavery. To condemn it as degrading and dehumanizing would involve having to profoundly question Christian history.

The churches never stood up against slavery or for civil rights. They defended their hatred and intolerance and bigotry by saying this was the way god wants things. You can create a seething cauldron of hell on earth and if enough people believe "this is the way the gods want it" then it will become acceptable. "I am on a mission from God!" cried Hitler publicly and loudly in 1934. I agree. Given what believers of god have done to humanity, he sure was.

As a society, we’re compelled to make value judgments that are not morally conflicted by robotic adherence to an ancient and unyielding dogma that has not evolved from the base instincts that served it 2,000 years ago. Surely some basic morals work well from generation to generation, from society to society. Let's choose wanton murder as a behavior that is socially destructive to a successful species, and murder is – rightfully so - consistently a moral issue that generally maintains its proscription (and sure some societies / ideologies that sabotage this, like the Nazis, Stalin, Christian Holy Warriors, etc. Morals change for reasons both trivial and important. Slavery was once considered a perfectly acceptable aspect of many cultures but forced slavery is so heinous to the perspective of modern societies that it has become morally reprehensible to allow it. However, some Christians still defend.

Wow, you have been indoctrinated by the liberal crowd. Your gripe is with humanity, but you're taking it out on those you don't even know...or understand. You have no idea what it means to be a Christian and you have no idea what the Bible teaches. Your loss...not mine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actually they believed exactly as you do. That religion should be opposed.

Because they didn't like the competition. So, different than me.

 

[barn sour]

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses. Can you imagine what they'll say when we let them know believers are no longer under the Law?

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That is a part of the problem with the more excitable Christians. They insist the law doesn't apply to them. They can cite a history of amoral behavior and defend it with a snappy cut and paste verse.

There is definitely a strong link between people who believe fervently in their religions (to the point of railing against any and all who disagree) and an appalling lack of even the most rudimentary levels of reasoned thinking. Having read the Bible cover to cover, I'm not surprised at this interlocking phenomenon-- the Bible advocates ignorance, and religions based on the Bible historically have stood in the way of education and literacy. What better way to convince the populace, if not to keep them illiterate?

Wow....you really think I give "snappy" cut and pastes? That sounds like a compliment to me. Thanks.

I don't believe you have read the Bible from cover to cover, so you really shouldn't say something so obviously wrong. And if you have read it, you've wasted a lot of time, because you don't know the most rudimentary fact that believers are no longer under the Law. We are under GRACE. Grace means that Jesus paid the price for our sins and fulfilled the LAW for us. Therefore, we are saved by Grace alone and not by works of the Law. These are very rudimentary facts that you have no inkling even exists. Thanks for finally making it clear that you're a pretender.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Some of our fellow posters here love to rant about the Laws of Moses. Can you imagine what they'll say when we let them know believers are no longer under the Law?

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

That is a part of the problem with the more excitable Christians. They insist the law doesn't apply to them. They can cite a history of amoral behavior and defend it with a snappy cut and paste verse.

There is definitely a strong link between people who believe fervently in their religions (to the point of railing against any and all who disagree) and an appalling lack of even the most rudimentary levels of reasoned thinking. Having read the Bible cover to cover, I'm not surprised at this interlocking phenomenon-- the Bible advocates ignorance, and religions based on the Bible historically have stood in the way of education and literacy. What better way to convince the populace, if not to keep them illiterate?

Wow....you really think I give "snappy" cut and pastes? That sounds like a compliment to me. Thanks.

I don't believe you have read the Bible from cover to cover, so you really shouldn't say something so obviously wrong. And if you have read it, you've wasted a lot of time, because you don't know the most rudimentary fact that believers are no longer under the Law. We are under GRACE. Grace means that Jesus paid the price for our sins and fulfilled the LAW for us. Therefore, we are saved by Grace alone and not by works of the Law. These are very rudimentary facts that you have no inkling even exists. Thanks for finally making it clear that you're a pretender.

Ugh that is disgusting and immoral. I am embarrassed for you just reading that.

 

[Newtonian]

Because it's clear you're mistaken.

About what, specifically?

You're wrong about the low morality of God's people, for one. You're also mistaken about slavery. An indentured slave, for instance, is not the same as the slavery you seem to be thinking of.

It's pretty typical that religionists will redefine amorality as morality. You are certainly free to redefine slavery as acceptable via sidestepping and equivocation but that serves only as an excuse for a past history of Christian amoral behavior. Slavery has a long and lurid history in Christiandom. Take responsibility for what your ideology has done to humanity.

It's pretty typical that nonbelievers rewrite history to suit their own vain imaginings. Do you know what indentured servitude was? They didn't have a nanny state back in the day that handed out money to people who didn't work. You paint with such a broad brush, I can't even respond. Are you talking about the Jews and their laws? That's what I thought we were talking about. Otherwise, the fact that you blame God for every ill perpetrated in His name is nonsensical.

Your hatred of religion has nothing to do with God. Your hatred should be directed at what man has done in the name of God. I'm surprised you can't see the difference.

Who is rewriting history? It seems to be you in excusing slavery. The problem with your applying equivocation to slavery is that it had consequences for the enslaved. My objection to using the Bibles as a moral guide is based exclusively on the listed ethics in the Bibles which fall far short of present day ethics man applies in modern day civilization. Even the cruelest of penalties, the death penalty, is done more humanely by man than we see that the gods would have it done. Slavery is not condemned in the Bibles but it is in the laws of the USA for instance. Stoning of criminals is a viable method of punishment in the Bibles but it is not acceptable to modern civilized nations. That is why there is such outrage against sharia in Moslem countries. It's not because they go "against the word of the Gods" -- but because they adhere to the word of the Gods. Why is that?

I don't hate your gods. That more involvement with your gods than I need or want.

It's such odd behavior. And it is the same thing every time. In every religion.

"Look at the evil shit those assholes did, using your religion to justify it."

Believer: "They are doing it wrong, then! There is nothing there to justify their behavior!!! You're wrong and mean!"

Uh...why in the hell are you yelling at me? I am not the one performing evil and justifying it with direct quotes from your handbook. THEY are. Go yell at them!

Not in my religion - we don't go to war. Like Gandhi, we strive to follow Jesus' teaching for us to love our enemies - Matthew 5:44.

 

[Newtonian]

I've managed to live through 72 years of very dangerous behavior (285 days in combat, motorcycle racing, street fights, messing around with married women, Detroit mobsters, etc) by never asking God for anything but to keep me safe from injury and disease. I've never asked Him for money, or success, or letting me get to an important place or date....I don't want to tick Him off by being needy or greedy. And if you deny His existence or worse, laugh at believers, don't be paying Him surprise visits like when you're in an ambulance on your way to an ER. Try to live inside His boundary lines, and don't forget to thank Him for your good fortune....that's every day you're above ground.

Yes - life is sacred and is a gift ultimately from God (and from our parents). The existence of life is one reason I love Jehovah. And especially among those who know God since God is love - 1 John 4:8.