When did Zionism have anything to do with religion?

[theliq]

Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

zion has been a center for their faith since abraham and the sacrifice.

So what? Constantinople has been the center of the Orthodox Church since it was established. No one is suggesting that the current inhabitants be removed and the place returned to the Greeks.

Yet here you are suggesting that the current inhabitants of Israel be removed and the place given to the illegal arab muslim immigrants

Phoney you should spend more time studying British history, because you know fcuk all about Middle Eastern.steve

 

[theliq]

Zionism is the term for the movement to provide self determination for the Jewish people.

Things like Subhumanity, here, and all the other creatures that persecute Jews like they do display why it was so very necessary.

Self Determination AT EVERY ONE ELSE'S EXPENSE.....Yeah that would be right.

 

[theliq]

The Zionists in Palestine were terrorists. Israel was created through the success of the terrorism of the Stern Gang, Irgun and other Jewish terrorists.

And the Hagganah and Maccabbee against the terrorism that the Mufti of Jerusalem, Hussani (misspelled) kept inciting the Arabs to visit against the Jews/Israelis. The Hagganah were at first a defense against the mufti, the Maccabbee broke out of the Haganah as the ones tired of not striking back.

You always leave out the details that do not suit your narrative.

More "Mufti the Bogeyman" rubbish.

Poor old Teddy really has become a Zionista Whore these days

 

[theliq]

Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

zion has been a center for their faith since abraham and the sacrifice.

 

[theliq]

Humanity, nice post. However besides the other holes I punched into other replies so far, here is the thing about Zionism.

It is and it isn't based upon religion. It is the fulfillment of many prophecies in the Bible, whereupon the Jews would be called back from the four corners of the Earth to RE-establish their home country in Erezt Israel. Sure the other groups you mention, ala the Kurds, etc., should have their rights to establish a home land as well. But where? And what are they missing? A (thee) book full of prophecies and history(s) of their culture, nation, and plight.

I want to add to this. I do not believe that the Jews are a chosen people as in to be regarded above all others. They are the ones to whom the book was given, even the Koran calls them "The people of the book". I do not even believe that most Jews think that they are "chosen" as in being above all others like a superior race.

Nope, IMHO God just chose this one dude (Abraham) a few thousand years ago and figured that he was going to use him and all his descendants and their story, history and prophecies to prove to them and eventually the rest of the world that he is thee I AM. The creator of the world.

Get it?

What a Fcuking Nut you are.........the original Jews were part Arab.....you have no sense of the truth or education.....you know not the minute nor the hour.

 

[theliq]

Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

Actually by your comparison, the land belongs to the Jews.

There are Kurds all over the world today, born and raised in Europe, U.S., etc. If tomorrow an independent state of Kurdistan comes into existence, and these Kurds who are being oppressed and killed by Islamic savages decide to go back and join their brethren in their ancient homeland, are these migrating Kurds now colonists and invaders in the land of their ancestors?

And what if there are a bunch of Arab Muslim asshole invaders already there, who disagree with this state...do they then get to kill Kurds as they please and in the name of Allah, as they are today?

Like the Kurds all that the Jews did was join their brethren who have kept a presence in that land for thousands of years.

Game set match.

So you say Give the Kurds their own country YET deny the Palestinians......there is something fcuked in your logic....Roudy..........Did you know that when the Kurds in Iraq were Gassed by Sadam......it was given approval by the US,moreover the poison-gas was supplied by the USA..............so who are the real Savages Roudy..............You,that's WHO.

steve the all knowing theliq....ever living,ever faithful and always Sure.

 

[theliq]

If so, then zionism is just fine isn't it?

ISN'T BECAUSE THEY ARE VERMIN

 

[theliq]

Well now we are calling zionism extremism and comapring it to a terrorist group. Therein lies your bias.

In fact the whole question of zionism is a non-issue. Israel exists and that is a reality so the term in of itself is irrelevant except to those with a bias in discrediting Israel's existence.

No it is based on the fact that all ZIONISM is TERRORISM.........you fool

 

[Linkiloo]

If so, then zionism is just fine isn't it?

It ISN'T BECAUSE THEY ARE VERMIN

Who are vermin? Are you in the habit of calling people vermin who live in their country and go about their daily business?

 

[Phoenall]

No, they don't have some fictitious writing supporting their rights to a homeland but, <snip>

The book you mention is the greatest fictional book ever written...

I am sorry you have not educated yourself. The Bible is not a work of fiction. Not in its entirety. Many of the historical parts of it have been proven archeologically.

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

 

[Phoenall]

Well now we are calling zionism extremism and comapring it to a terrorist group. Therein lies your bias.

In fact the whole question of zionism is a non-issue. Israel exists and that is a reality so the term in of itself is irrelevant except to those with a bias in discrediting Israel's existence.

No it is based on the fact that all ZIONISM is TERRORISM.........you fool

Even though it has been shown to have no basis in terrorism, and this is just islamonazi propaganda and blood libels

 

[Phoenall]

Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

zion has been a center for their faith since abraham and the sacrifice.

So what? Constantinople has been the center of the Orthodox Church since it was established. No one is suggesting that the current inhabitants be removed and the place returned to the Greeks.

Yet here you are suggesting that the current inhabitants of Israel be removed and the place given to the illegal arab muslim immigrants

Phoney you should spend more time studying British history, because you know fcuk all about Middle Eastern.steve

Seems I know more that you because I don't rely solely on just one source

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is the term for the movement to provide self determination for the Jewish people.

Things like Subhumanity, here, and all the other creatures that persecute Jews like they do display why it was so very necessary.

Self Determination AT EVERY ONE ELSE'S EXPENSE.....Yeah that would be right.

Sounds like what the Palestinians are doing, now when will they take the next step towards self determination in full ?

 

[Phoenall]

Humanity, nice post. However besides the other holes I punched into other replies so far, here is the thing about Zionism.

It is and it isn't based upon religion. It is the fulfillment of many prophecies in the Bible, whereupon the Jews would be called back from the four corners of the Earth to RE-establish their home country in Erezt Israel. Sure the other groups you mention, ala the Kurds, etc., should have their rights to establish a home land as well. But where? And what are they missing? A (thee) book full of prophecies and history(s) of their culture, nation, and plight.

I want to add to this. I do not believe that the Jews are a chosen people as in to be regarded above all others. They are the ones to whom the book was given, even the Koran calls them "The people of the book". I do not even believe that most Jews think that they are "chosen" as in being above all others like a superior race.

Nope, IMHO God just chose this one dude (Abraham) a few thousand years ago and figured that he was going to use him and all his descendants and their story, history and prophecies to prove to them and eventually the rest of the world that he is thee I AM. The creator of the world.

Get it?

What a Fcuking Nut you are.........the original Jews were part Arab.....you have no sense of the truth or education.....you know not the minute nor the hour.

NOPE the arabs were from another country all together, and did not mix with anyone.

DO you, because if you do then you are the only paerson who does.

 

[Phoenall]

Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

Actually by your comparison, the land belongs to the Jews.

There are Kurds all over the world today, born and raised in Europe, U.S., etc. If tomorrow an independent state of Kurdistan comes into existence, and these Kurds who are being oppressed and killed by Islamic savages decide to go back and join their brethren in their ancient homeland, are these migrating Kurds now colonists and invaders in the land of their ancestors?

And what if there are a bunch of Arab Muslim asshole invaders already there, who disagree with this state...do they then get to kill Kurds as they please and in the name of Allah, as they are today?

Like the Kurds all that the Jews did was join their brethren who have kept a presence in that land for thousands of years.

Game set match.

So you say Give the Kurds their own country YET deny the Palestinians......there is something fcuked in your logic....Roudy..........Did you know that when the Kurds in Iraq were Gassed by Sadam......it was given approval by the US,moreover the poison-gas was supplied by the USA..............so who are the real Savages Roudy..............You,that's WHO.

steve the all knowing theliq....ever living,ever faithful and always Sure.

They were given their own country in 1923, why do they want more ? The only people denying them their own country are the arab muslims en masse.

Who are the real savages, why those arab muslims that target children with illegal weapons and then complain when they get killed in retaliation.

 

[Humanity]

No, they don't have some fictitious writing supporting their rights to a homeland but, <snip>

The book you mention is the greatest fictional book ever written...

I am sorry you have not educated yourself. The Bible is not a work of fiction. Not in its entirety. Many of the historical parts of it have been proven archeologically.

I am sorry that I have not been sucked into a fictitious piece of literature... I have read of people believe in Harry Potter also! Many historical parts of that particular book have been 'proven' through archaeology, there is NO doubting that... However, as you clearly state, "not in its entirety"...

There are a GREAT many books written that a 'proven' but "not in its entirety".... Books based upon SOME facts and a LOT of fiction!

However, when one reads of a 'Sky Wizard' telling someone that they have to go and invade someone else land and then make it THEIR 'homeland'... One does have to question the 'sanity' of those who believe completely...

Fiction starts from the very beginning of the story... What happens after that is, well, at best made up by a few, edited by many throughout the millennia....

So you mean the Koran that is saying that 1400 years after it was first regurgitated, and the muslims are still acting on the words when the false prophet said allah has given you the world to own

 

[Humanity]

No, they don't have some fictitious writing supporting their rights to a homeland but, <snip>

The book you mention is the greatest fictional book ever written...

I am sorry you have not educated yourself. The Bible is not a work of fiction. Not in its entirety. Many of the historical parts of it have been proven archeologically.

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

 

[Challenger]

If so, then zionism is just fine isn't it?

It ISN'T BECAUSE THEY ARE VERMIN

Who are vermin? Are you in the habit of calling people vermin who live in their country and go about their daily business?

No, that's a Zionist trait.

" [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin,
"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." Yitzhak Shamir
"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves."
"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin.

 

[Challenger]

No, they don't have some fictitious writing supporting their rights to a homeland but, <snip>

The book you mention is the greatest fictional book ever written...

I am sorry you have not educated yourself. The Bible is not a work of fiction. Not in its entirety. Many of the historical parts of it have been proven archeologically.

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

Quite right, you are finally getting the point, basing your whole argument on one book, the Bible/Torah, shows that you don't have an argument.

Well done, now off you go and read those expansive books you mention; then come back and prove how wrong Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University, is.

 

[Phoenall]

I am sorry you have not educated yourself. The Bible is not a work of fiction. Not in its entirety. Many of the historical parts of it have been proven archeologically.

Erm...no.

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel:

• the Israelites were never in Egypt,
  
• did not wander in the desert,
  
• did not conquer the land in a military campaign and
• did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel

Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom.

And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."---Professor Ze'ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel-Aviv University.

Biblical Archaeologists, on the other hand, are only interested in finding evidence to support Bible/Torah stories, their objectivity is questionable.

How about some links to substantiate your claims above, and not those made up ones from left wing and islamomoron sources.

I would suggest you read a book, but that's waaay beyond your capabilities. Nevertheless I'm, as ever, happy to relieve your thirst for enlightenment from the darknes of your right wing ignorance and bigotry.

Deconstructing the walls of Jericho Mideastfacts

Basing your whole argument on one book shows that you don't have an argument. Might I suggest looking for more expansive works that show him to be wrong.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That has got to be the post of the year so far Phoney!

Zionists basing their whole argument on one book shows that they too don't have an argument?

Oh no, sorry, correction....

One book and the great Sky Wizard!

What a dumbsass!

Only you mentioned the great sky wizard, I base my whole argument on many books and no great sky wizard and I am still a Zionist.

seems that you cant read and understand English all that well, could it be that it is not your first language