Zone1 When Christianity Just Doesn't Make Sense

[theHawk]

I never believed the lies on Iraq.


and I don’t believe your lie that Joe Biden started the war in Ukraine.

Putin massively Invaded Ukraine in 2022 and we Americans supported western liberal democrac

there is a simple truth. George Bush lied in order to justify invading Iraq. United States invaded Iraq based on false pretenses..

You were a sucker for it because you’re a Republican.

In February ‘22, Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on false premises. You are a sucker for those lies because you’re a Republican and the Republican party has become a Putin lover for real..


perhaps Saint Dang, believes your absurd lie that Joe Biden started the war in Ukraine.



because you are a liar, you cannot do research.

The war in Ukraine started in 2014. Look it up. Russia took Crimea during that time.

Acknowledging history isn’t “Russian propaganda”, it’s just history that shows what our dumb state department pushes in foreign policy.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The war in Ukraine started in 2014. Look it up. Russia took Crimea during that time.

You are a liar. Putin did not attempt to roll his army into Kiev until Feb ‘22 and start bombing civilian targets in western Ukraine well beyond the Donbas region.

That is the date Putin started committing genocide against the entire population of Ukraine in violation of international law.

The annexation of Crimea was accomplished with a few shots fired when a Ukrainian Navy Officer was killed when he refused to abandon his post and leave.

Hardly a war that was.

 

[Woodznutz]

Nowhere in the Bible.

It's implicit in the "unpardonable sin", which began with Lucifer and his angels. Their sin was the pattern for us.

 

[Papageorgio]

I don’t think that. You are a..

people should simply vote in favor of their self interest by looking for truth and facts to determine who will promote what’s best for working class people.

they also should vote for who would be best suited to preserve western liberal democracy.


Most liars are easy to spot. You come to mind..

Yeah, you do, and I don’t give a rats ass what you think of me, you continually add me to your conversations and bitch why I vote the way I do, I don’t care who you vote for or why, so exclude me from your replies and I am fine with that. That you disapprove of the way I vote that means I am right in what I do.

 

[Woodznutz]

Hell is simply being disconnected from God. He isn’t going to force you to love him and obey him.

Hell means you receive no help from God. You have chosen to side with Satan in serving yourself, and so you will be with Satan for all eternity. And Satan and the demons hate humans so they will torment you for all eternity.

Eternal life is reserved for those who repent. Eternal death is the fate of the unrepentant sinner. Eternal life in torment is reserved for Satan and the demons.

 

[Z99]

It's implicit in the "unpardonable sin", which began with Lucifer and his angels. Their sin was the pattern for us.

Please provide the verse and then I'll share with you what it really says.

 

[Z99]

Eternal life is reserved for those who repent. Eternal death is the fate of the unrepentant sinner. Eternal life in torment is reserved for Satan and the demons.

Incorrect.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

ding cdxxxiii to 429 regarding the founding generation : I am telling you that whatever successful behaviors they had were informed by their Christian beliefs. dvng 200123 Afaac00433.

ding xci : In 1764, Massachusetts patriot James Otis defined Natural Law as “the rules of moral conduct implanted by nature in the human mind, forming the proper basis for and being superior to all written laws; the will of God revealed to man through his conscience.” (Annals of America, 2:11) dvng 161220 awbon00091

ding xcix to 96 : Jefferson believed in a moralistic, providential creator who is the source of all natural rights. dvng 241124 wcjdm000

Nature’s god is not tribal. The glimpse of the divine in a sunrise on an ocean is not tribal. Hearing divinity of you make your baby granddaughter giggle is not tribal.

Your side would enact mandatory abortion if unchecked.

That statement is tribal, it is a lie. The statement is therfore not Divine. Saint Mashmont’s conscience has become tribalized beyond repair. methinks!

 

[Woodznutz]

Please provide the verse and then I'll share with you what it really says.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[ding]

ding cdxxxiii to 429 regarding the founding generation : I am telling you that whatever successful behaviors they had were informed by their Christian beliefs. dvng 200123 Afaac00433.

ding xci : In 1764, Massachusetts patriot James Otis defined Natural Law as “the rules of moral conduct implanted by nature in the human mind, forming the proper basis for and being superior to all written laws; the will of God revealed to man through his conscience.” (Annals of America, 2:11) dvng 161220 awbon00091

ding xcix to 96 : Jefferson believed in a moralistic, providential creator who is the source of all natural rights. dvng 241124 wcjdm000

Nature’s god is not tribal. The glimpse of the divine in a sunrise on an ocean is not tribal. Hearing divinity of you make your baby granddaughter giggle is not tribal.




That statement is tribal, it is a lie. The statement is therfore not Divine. Saint Mashmont’s conscience has become tribalized beyond repair. methinks!

As a rational theist, do you believe in a moralistic and providential creator?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

I think people don't do perfect things all of the time.

I think organizations are composed of imperfect people

Porter Rockwell dclx: . There are those who think that the "Enlightenment" period as they call it, somehow marginalized Christianity. prxyz 200129 Safaac00660


I reject any suggestion that the enlightenment period marginalized Christianity.

The enlightenment. Gave us separation of imperfect people in state from imperfect people in church.

As a rational theist, do you believe in a moralistic and providential creator?

Yes but not your tribal needy one.

Nature’s God never chooses people to be favorites or form nations or religious organizations for him. I communicate with a highest power when I make my granddaughter giggle; and when she sees that I am leaving for the day and she puts her arms out and wants me to pick her up and for now it makes her cry when I go. When there the next morning as she wakes up, the smile and the chatter is all the proof I need that nature was formed by a higher power that I expect as one finite human being was not intended to fully understand.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

wcjdm00112

ding xcix to 96 : Jefferson believed in a moralistic, providential creator who is the source of all natural rights. dvng 241124 Swcjdm00099


NotfooledbyW cxii to 99 : Jefferson’s Creator was not to be found in the Catholic or Protestant Church nor in any of it’s supernatural gimmickry.

What makes Jefferson more attractive to your sense of white European Catholic moral superiority over your dreaded atheists? nfbw 241124 Vwcjdm00112
.

 

[Clyde 154]

I mean don't get me wrong I'm still a believer but some things I just don't understand. Like if God knows everything and knew that Lucifer was going to bring sin into the world then why did He even create him in the first place? Couldn't Satan still repent if he wanted to and wouldn't God forgive him then?

Satan is a fallen angel.........all angels, just like humans were created with FREE WILL. Angels were created, They are a creation of the Christ who was with God and was God in the beginning. (John 1) "For by Him all things were created, IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH, visible and invisible........" -- Col. 1:16

Angels, created with free will can make errors and sin, "For God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until judgment." -- 2 Peter 2:4. Satan is the God of this world (2 Cor. 4:4) Christians are called out from the world (John 17:14). The word church literally means the Called Out.......Christians are transferred from the kingdom of darkness, this world, into the kingdom of God....i.e, Christ's church/kingdom (Matt.16).

"He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of His beloved Son." -- Col. 1:13

John tells us of the war waged with the old dragon (who rebelled against God's authority), "Now war arose in Heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon (serpent)..........." Rev. 12:7 Satan defined as the dragon was defeated and cast down from heaven (Rev. 12:7-12)

The world and its master (the old dragon) hates the truth revealed in the Word of God. I guess Satan adheres to the axiom of John Milton's Paradise Lost, "Its better to rule in Hell (hell on earth is literal......its filled with pain, suffering, loss....etc., )than to serve in Heaven" If you are a Christian you are conditioned to FEED YOUR ETERNAL SPIRIT which belongs to God to judge as He will....rather than to live for the flesh as explained by Jesus when informing everyone of His mission statement....to feed the human soul, not the flesh. His purpose was to preach the truth from Heaven, feeding the spirit of man. (Luke 18:37, John 6:26-27) Jesus Himself turned away the poor that were following Him wanting more fish and loaves....and He told them they followed Him for the wrong reason, His duty was to feed the spirit not the flesh which perishes.

The Kingdom of God....aka, the church purchased with the blood of the Christ is a spiritual kingdom not a literal physical kingdom.......that kingdom resides within the heart of the believer. (Luke 17:20-21). Jesus Himself informed everyone that His Kingdom was not of this world. (John 18:36) Christians are promised nothing extra from any other person on earth......the fain falls on the just and the unjust. Salvation comes after this race called life is over (1 Cor. 9:4)......in the meanwhile we are all tempted, suffer, love, become ill, etc., all based upon the daily free will decisions of this world. Run this race to win the promised crown of victory......its a gift of God's grace because none of us are worthy of salvation void of the sacrificial blood of Christ (Heb. 9) Not one is righteous (Romans 3:10) If we say we have no sin, the truth is not in us........but our Christ is there to cleanse us of unrighteousness with His Blood, we make the Christ a liar if we say we cannot and do not sin. (1 John 1: 8-10)

 

[Z99]

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I thought you were referencing another verse(s). What you shared is pretty damning. Let me get back to you. Thanks for sharing.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

As a rational theist, do you believe in a moralistic and providential creator?

Its not a belief. it is something I know.
I do not put a label on the highest creative power other than that.

As a Catholic it’s possible, you know. My knowledge of a higher power is not tribal it is individually discerned outside of the physical realm,

My conscience? .. when it was fully formed and ignited at birth by that higher creative power had it, just like Jefferson says.

I don’t expect you to understand Saint Ding the gist of my reply because you are tribal.

You think, in terms of chosen people in a relationship with a revealed religion God

That works for many; it just does not work for me.

The generation that fought the revolutionary war for me and you and our grandchildren, I truthfully find no reason to believe that they were for the most part tribal Christians.

American history for the decades or two before and after the revolution tell us something different than the Christian nation narrative. That period was Dusty Bible, heady times, filled with materialistic whisky drinking pioneer spirit in the backdrop of the relaxation of churched religion as the vision was on the western land.

If you don’t believe me that Christianity was in decline during America’s founding decades:

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/revival-at-cane-ridge

• On a trip to Tennessee in 1794, Methodist bishop Francis Asbury wrote anxiously about frontier settlers, “When I reflect that not one in a hundred came here to get religion, but rather to get plenty of good land, I think it will be well if some or many do not eventually lose their souls.”
• Andrew Fulton, a Presbyterian missionary from Scotland, discovered in Nashville and in “all the newly formed towns in this western colony, there are few religious people.”
• The minutes of the frontier Transylvania Presbytery reveal deep concern about the “prevalence of vice & infidelity, the great apparent declension of true vital religion in too many places.”
• Rampant alcoholism and avaricious land-grabbing were matched by the increasing popularity of both universalism (the doctrine that all will be saved) and deism (the belief that God is uninvolved in the world).
• Methodist James Smith, traveling near Lexington in the autumn of 1795 feared that “the universalists, joining with the Deists, had given Christianity a deadly stab hereabouts.”
• Hyperbole, perhaps. Still, during the six years preceding 1800, the Methodist Church—most popular among the expanding middle and lower classes—declined in national membership from 67,643 to 61,351.
• In the 1790s the population of frontier Kentucky tripled, but the already meager Methodist membership decreased.

 

[ding]

Yes

Let’s test that. What role does this moralistic and providential creator serve?

In other words, why do you believe the creator is moralistic and providential?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

In other words, why do you believe the creator is moralistic and providential?

I told you it was not about belief. it’s about knowledge. When I was born, a higher power loaded my mind with the ability to be rational and to know moral purpose. Every person born in the history of mankind has had the same opportunity to rise in morality by observing all aspects of creation within the limits of the environment and ability to which they are born

 

[whutTHEYsay]

What role does this moralistic and providential creator serve?

The highest creative power serves me by sustaining my life in a very interesting and beautiful universe with no other expectation other than to seek what is true. Starting with things that we first learn when we’re new humans, like one + one equals two. that is true don’t you think.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

What role does this moralistic and providential creator serve?

The highest creative power serves me by sustaining my life in a very interesting and beautiful universe with no other expectation other than to seek what is true. With no expectation that I must be infallible in the search for truth.

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” – letter to his nephew, Peter Carr, August 10, 1787​

 

[Z99]

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Paul was talking about Jews who followed the law to be saved instead of believing in salvation through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. If you go to the beginning of Hebrews 6 you will see that it is referencing what was said in Hebrews 5.