Zone1 When Christianity Just Doesn't Make Sense

[Woodznutz]

Paul was talking about Jews who followed the law to be saved instead of believing in salvation through Jesus's sacrifice on the cross. If you go to the beginning of Hebrews 6 you will see that it is referencing what was said in Hebrews 5.

My reading suggests that the author (unknown) is writing to gentile converts, gentile meaning descendants of the house of Israel, who were indeed the Hebrews. (Note that Peter was the apostle to Jews.) The first 6 chapters is a warning and exhortation to grow in the faith lest they backslide, not back into Judaism, but back into the sinful life from whence they were called. The author concludes the warning by stating dire consequences of backsliding but qualifies it by including such things as 'tasting the heaven gift' through the indwelling Holy Spirit. This does not pertain to those 'who left us because they were not of us'. What the author is portraying is the 'unpardonable sin', the sin that Lucifer and angels committed, as they enjoyed the 'heavenly gift' of the original Eden but abandoned it for what they thought would be something greater or more pleasurable.

Also of note, Hebrews was written well after the death of Jesus. The disciples would have been busy building the church among the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" to whom Jesus sent them, many of whom remained in the region, although there would have been some Jewish converts as well.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I mean don't get me wrong I'm still a believer but some things I just don't understand. Like if God knows everything and knew that Lucifer was going to bring sin into the world then why did He even create him in the first place? Couldn't Satan still repent if he wanted to and wouldn't God forgive him then?

Or Satan has God powers, but there's only one God. Maybe Satan is just the evil part of God.

 

[Z99]

My reading suggests that the author (unknown) is writing to gentile converts, gentile meaning descendants of the house of Israel, who were indeed the Hebrews. (Note that Peter was the apostle to Jews.) The first 6 chapters is a warning and exhortation to grow in the faith lest they backslide, not back into Judaism, but back into the sinful life from whence they were called. The author concludes the warning by stating dire consequences of backsliding but qualifies it by including such things as 'tasting the heaven gift' through the indwelling Holy Spirit. This does not pertain to those 'who left us because they were not of us'. What the author is portraying is the 'unpardonable sin', the sin that Lucifer and angels committed, as they enjoyed the 'heavenly gift' of the original Eden but abandoned it for what they thought would be something greater.

Also of note, Hebrews was written well after the death of Jesus. The disciples would have been busy building the church among the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" to whom Jesus sent them, many of whom remained in the region, although there would have been some Jewish converts as well.

Nice post.

Isn't God, through Jesus, reconciling ALL things (including fallen angels) back to him?

Colossians
1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

 

[Z99]

I believe this makes sense. Do you agree?

 

[Woodznutz]

Nice post.

Isn't God, through Jesus, reconciling ALL things (including fallen angels) back to him?

Colossians
1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Maybe the fate of Satan and the demons is part of the reconciliation, squaring the books so to speak.

 

[Woodznutz]

I believe this makes sense. Do you agree?

View attachment 1046643

That supposes that the fate of the unrepentant sinner is eternal life in torment. Eternal life is a reward, not a punishment, except for Satan and the demons. The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torment.

 

[Z99]

I believe that our purpose here is to be lost from God in order to experience and learn all of the horrible things that happen when we choose NOT to follow him. I believe angels are also experiencing and learning. Eventually, however, we will ALL be brought back into God's fold (so to speak) and spend forever with him in his kingdom, or so I believe.

 

[Z99]

That supposes that the fate of the unrepentant sinner is eternal life in torment. Eternal life is a reward, not a punishment, except for Satan and the demons. The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in torment.

Do you believe that Jesus is all powerful? Do you believe that Jesus is all loving?
Do you believe that Jesus is capable of persuading ALL beings to follow him?
Doesn't 1 Corinthians 15:23 describe Jesus as waiting? For what purpose is Jesus waiting? Is he waiting on the last of his enemies to reach repentance and happily follow him? If Jesus just tosses them into forever punishment or death, why would Jesus need to wait as he is described as doing in 1 Corinthians 15:23?

 

[Woodznutz]

Do you believe that Jesus is all powerful? Do you believe that Jesus is all loving?
Do you believe that Jesus is capable of persuading ALL beings to follow him?
Doesn't 1 Corinthians 15:23 describe Jesus as waiting? For what purpose is Jesus waiting? Is he waiting on the last of his enemies to reach repentance and happily follow him? If Jesus just tosses them into forever punishment or death, why would Jesus need to wait as he is described as doing in 1 Corinthians 15:23?

With God/Jesus all things are possible, but I see no scriptural evidence for the return of the rebellious angels to grace. But, perhaps God will surprise us.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

achyz00731. Schlafly Vigano Putin Collusion. see also achyz00729

'Russia the Last Bastion of Civilization Against Barbarism' - Catholic Archbishop Vigano, Fierce Critic of Pope Francis.

i. ding dclv: Putin is no Christian. post 655.

ii. Calypso Jones cdxiv to 413: January 3 through 5..a fasting and prayer for the J6 Political prisoners. ArchBishop Vigano has called for this. If you can find it in your heart to do this...join many of us who will be doing it. clypsjbs 230101 SprtjN00414

iii. NotfooledbyW dccxxxi to 655 : So tell me Saint Ding; as you consider yourself in the purity of Christianity to be a member of the first and last bastion of civilization; why you cannot say whether or not {Catholic Archbishop Vigano (pictured above) who is known to be an outspoken and fierce critic of Pope Francis and is saying that the genocidal fascist leader of Russia is the Last Bastion of Civilization”} is a Christian?

You must believe Saint Ding in your heart of hearts on this message board that Saint Calypso Jones and his beloved convicted J6, violent opponents of “peaceful transfer of power” cop beating, obstructionists are good Christians being persecuted by the Biden Harris Deep State simply for trying to protect Christian civilization.

nfbw 241126 Sachyz00731

post 128. I believe that our purpose here is to be lost from God in order to experience and learn all of the horrible things that happen when we choose NOT to follow him. I believe angels are also experiencing and learning. Eventually, however, we will ALL be brought back into God's fold (so to speak) and spend forever with him in his kingdom, or so I believe.

Reality Check: so do you think Saint Z99 that young children and the elderly grandparents in Ukraine should be victims of Vladimir Putin‘s genocide while archbishop of the Catholic Church believes what Vladimir Putin is doing is in the interest in protecting the last bastion of civilization.

I don’t get it. Perhaps you can help me.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

What role does this moralistic and providential creator serve?

Not this 3 million:

New Apostolic Reformation Evangelicals See Trump As God’s Warrior In Their Battle To Christianize America

The movement sees Trump as battling satanic forces.

talkingpointsmemo.com

A growing movement believes President-elect Donald Trump is fighting a spiritual war against demonic forces within the United States. Trump himself stated in his acceptance speech on Nov. 6, 2024, that the reason that “God spared my life” was to “restore America to greatness.”​

​

I have studied various religious movementsthat seek to shape and control American society. One of these is the New Apostolic Reformation, or NAR, whose followers believe that they are waging a spiritual battle for control of the United States. NAR is an offshoot of Protestant Christian evangelicalism.​

​

NAR advocates claim they receive divine guidance in reconstructing modern society based on Christian spiritual beliefs. In 2015, an estimated 3 million adult Americans attended churches that were openly part of NAR. Some scholars estimate that the number of active NAR adherents may be larger, as the movement may include members of Protestant Christian churches that are not directly aligned with the NAR movement.​

 

[Z99]

I see no scriptural evidence for the return of the rebellious angels to grace.

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 Samuel 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

1 Corinthians 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

 

[Woodznutz]

Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 Samuel 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.

Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

1 Corinthians 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever

As I said, I'm not at all hopeful that the sinning angels will be saved. I have to rely on what is written.

 

[Z99]

As I said, I'm not at all hopeful that the sinning angels will be saved. I have to rely on what is written.

 

[Z99]

As I said, I'm not at all hopeful that the sinning angels will be saved. I have to rely on what is written.

I appreciate that we could share thoughts and beliefs in a friendly manner. It's rare around here.

 

[Woodznutz]

I appreciate that we could share thoughts and beliefs in a friendly manner. It's rare around here.

True, but I do like a good religious argument where we beat each other over the head with scriptures.

 

[BreezeWood]

President Trump has been entrusted to guide the country. We entrust Jesus to guide our individual lives.

they need to learn worshiping others will never solve their problems and certainly relying on politicians is a reflection of hopeless despair at best that will only get worse.

 

[Woodznutz]

they need to learn worshiping others will never solve their problems and certainly relying on politicians is a reflection of hopeless despair at best that will only get worse.

Worshipping God means keeping the commandments, which will solve most of our problems. Regarding government leadership, if it conflicts with God's leadership, we choose to follow God.

 

[BreezeWood]

Worshipping God means keeping the commandments, which will solve most of our problems. Regarding government leadership, if it conflicts with God's leadership, we choose to follow God.

there are no heavenly commandments - the exact opposite of your post is the historical record, commandments particularly those madeup by moses are use for their subliminal purpose, to persecute and victimize the innocent especially by the desert religions primary adherents for their own selfish agendas.

- their uninterrupted remorseless histories speak for themselves.

 

[Z99]

Worshipping God means keeping the commandments, which will solve most of our problems. Regarding government leadership, if it conflicts with God's leadership, we choose to follow God.

Don't cast your pearls to that one.