Whats up with this and the statue?

[Meriweather]

why did people get so upset when their idol fell??

Idol?

Did Jews carve Cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant and treat it reverently because they worshiped Cherubim, Arks, and piece of parchment? Of course not! Nor do Christians worship statuary, but the most high God.

The symbolism of the statue is no more an idol than the Cherubim on the Ark were idols. Would the people of the day been upset if one of the Cherubim had accidentally broken off? Why? Because their "idol" had broken. Or, because of what it symbolized?

 

[Meriweather]

And this pleases you? Why?

 

[guno]

And this pleases you? Why?

why are they dragging the statue around

 

[Meriweather]

why are they dragging the statue around

I'll need more than just a clip to answer this question. Where and on what day did this occur? What was the event? Again, the statue was not being "dragged" (which has the definition of being pulled). Was the Ark of the Covenant dragged? Or, was it being borne?

 

[HaShev]

Meri you are comparing apples to oranges.
The Ark had symbols like the 2 guardians that served a purpose and focus on that symbolism and was holding the ten commandments in them and Moses' HaShevet also requiring focus on. The ark and the symbols are not venerated or prayed to or an image of a person.
Your comparison is liken to saying carrying the Covered and adorned Torah is similar to the Isis money statues called Mary statues which is referred to explicitely as forbidden Asherah in the Bible.

 

[Meriweather]

Meri you are comparing apples to oranges.
The Ark had symbols like the 2 guardians that served a purpose and focus on that symbolism and was holding the ten commandments in them and Moses' HaShevet also requiring focus on. The ark and the symbols are not venerated or prayed to or an image of a person.
Your comparison is liken to saying carrying the Covered and adorned Torah is similar to the Isis money statues called Mary statues which is referred to explicitely as forbidden Asherah in the Bible.

No, I am not comparing apples to oranges. Both images are symbolic, with worship being to God alone, and His servants being honored for their service and obedience to God. The prohibition against images came from the ancient practice of actually believing a graven image had supernatural powers. Today, no one believe statuary has supernatural powers. Is the lamb being worshiped on Passover, are candles being worshiped on Hanukkah? Of course not! They provide the imagery, nothing more, as worship is being given to God in honor of noteworthy events.

 

[HaShev]

Meri no, but you won't understand till You recognize the Shiloh, then the focus will make sense.
There were better examples of misguided devotion then the ark, although I understand how you can relate the images found on it they are in no way viewed or used the same.
I'll give you an example:
Mother Anglica told her listeners on TV to pray to the Baby Jesus statue, but to explain your prayers carefully & thoroughly, because it was just a child. *L*
People used to put food in front of the idols as offerings and when priests and their families snuck in at night to feast these people actually thought the statues ate the food and drank the wine.
*slaps forehead*

 

[hjmick]

Guno's hate and bigotry showing again I see...

 

[guno]

so what about all the other festivals where they drag the status around and pin money to it and throw kisses

I know of no festival where statues are "dragged around." Traditionally money attached to statues is given to the poor and needy, sometimes the poor and needy of the local neighborhood, and other times to a particular charity serving a poor part of the world.

what is this about?



seems like they are more concerned about the statue then the guy who go clocked,

 

[Meriweather]

what is this about?

seems like they are more concerned about the statue then the guy who go clocked,

Semana Santa is one of Alicante, Spain's main religious celebrations. It begins on Palm Sunday and runs the entire week until Easter. There are twenty-eight parades noting the events of Holy Week, and many famous artists display works of art. In that particular video, news reports tell us no one was hurt, and only the crown on the statue was slightly damaged.

This particular statuary is of Our Lady of Sorrows. These sorrows represents these seven points in Mary's life with Jesus:

(1) the prophecy of Simeon
(2) the flight of the Holy Family into Egypt
(3) the loss and finding of the child Jesus in the Temple Mary's
(4) Her meeting of Jesus on His way to Calvary
(5) Standing at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified;
(6) holding of Jesus when He was taken down from the cross;
(7) Jesus' burial

An early title was, Our Lady of Compassion, highlighting the great love of Mary for her son during times of sorrow.

 

[guno]

what is this about?

seems like they are more concerned about the statue then the guy who go clocked,

Semana Santa is one of Alicante, Spain's main religious celebrations. It begins on Palm Sunday and runs the entire week until Easter. There are twenty-eight parades noting the events of Holy Week, and many famous artists display works of art. In that particular video, news reports tell us no one was hurt, and only the crown on the statue was slightly damaged.

This particular statuary is of Our Lady of Sorrows. These sorrows represents these seven points in Mary's life with Jesus:

(1) the prophecy of Simeon
(2) the flight of the Holy Family into Egypt
(3) the loss and finding of the child Jesus in the Temple Mary's
(4) Her meeting of Jesus on His way to Calvary
(5) Standing at the foot of the cross when Jesus was crucified;
(6) holding of Jesus when He was taken down from the cross;
(7) Jesus' burial

An early title was, Our Lady of Compassion, highlighting the great love of Mary for her son during times of sorrow.

so is mary a co god with your god jesus?

 

[guno]

when I used to travel to mexico city in the 90's on business , I saw people knelling and walking on their knees up a hill , this was in December I asked some one whats up with that and was told it was for Our Lady of Guadalupe

 

[Meriweather]

when I used to travel to mexico city in the 90's on business , I saw people knelling and walking on their knees up a hill , this was in December I asked some one whats up with that and was told it was for Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guadalupe (one of Mary's many titles) appeared to Juan Diego in 1531 in Mexico. She asked that a church be built. It took a couple of miracles to convince the bishop. It is my understanding that some make a pilgrimage to this church (a basilica) on their knees, especially if they have a special intention. Catholics believe the living community consist of those who presently live on earth and those who have passed on. Not only are we comfortable asking others to pray with us, we are also comfortable asking those who have passed on to join us in our prayers.

 

[guno]

when I used to travel to mexico city in the 90's on business , I saw people knelling and walking on their knees up a hill , this was in December I asked some one whats up with that and was told it was for Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guadalupe (one of Mary's many titles) appeared to Juan Diego in 1531 in Mexico. She asked that a church be built. It took a couple of miracles to convince the bishop. It is my understanding that some make a pilgrimage to this church (a basilica) on their knees, especially if they have a special intention. Catholics believe the living community consist of those who presently live on earth and those who have passed on. Not only are we comfortable asking others to pray with us, we are also comfortable asking those who have passed on to join us in our prayers.

the dead pray?
but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is long ago perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

jewish bible
Ecclesiastes 9 JPS Tanakh 1917

catholic bible

Ecclesiastes 9 DRB

 

[Meriweather]

the dead pray?
but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is long ago perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Yes, Ecclesiastes 9 tells us what happens to our bodies and our life here on earth when we die. Ecclesiastes 12 tells us that the body returns to dust, from the clay from which it came, but the spirit--the breath of life--returns to God. Catholics believe this life that returns to God lives now and forever in His presence. Physical life on earth is temporary and quickly forgotten. Life with God is eternal.

 

[HaShev]

the dead pray?
but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.As well their love, as their hatred and their envy, is long ago perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Yes, Ecclesiastes 9 tells us what happens to our bodies and our life here on earth when we die. Ecclesiastes 12 tells us that the body returns to dust, from the clay from which it came, but the spirit--the breath of life--returns to God. Catholics believe this life that returns to God lives now and forever in His presence. Physical life on earth is temporary and quickly forgotten. Life with God is eternal.

“Soul in the OT [Old Testament] is nepe_s Nepe_s comes from an original root meaning to breathe, and thus since death is without breath then the soul (breath) ceases after death. “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) Num. 6:6, 9:7, Lev. 21:11 – a dead body is a dead “nephesh”As scripture tells us, when you die the body goes back to the dust of the earth (Ecc 3:20) and the soul (breath) or spirit (nature of your being) also dissipates into the energy surrounding this, our layer of existence, the earth(Ecc 12:7, Psalms 22:29 & 104:29-30, Ezekiel 18:4 & 20, Joshua 10:28-39)Our Spirit (which is an essence of our being & not an energy) shouldn't be portrayed as an energy, for even if it was described as such it could not escape from this earth or have any senses or conciousness without a processor for it, which is what our brain is. We were formed from processions, layer after layer of micro realms to have concious energy, by placing the soul into the body, which acts as the processor, otherwise there would be no "Life" to experience. Example: You send a signal from computer to computer with a visual program that functions, but by itself that energy full of info has no form of concept, but once it’s received and processed at the end user, it then becomes a formed and visible program. Without the processor it’s just energy in micro orders without macro end vision of form.Stilldoubt what I say?Try blind folding yourself, placing sound proof ear phones on, and numbing your fingers. What do you feel, hear or see (thus sense)? Nothing! Does that energy you call soul still see, hear, touch, and feel?Without your vessel acting as the processor you have no sense that allow you to feel, hear, see and sense life.
scripture warns us of "PROMISING" people a false "Soul Flying Life"(Ezekiel 13:20-22)
In Judaism death was despised and seen as un natural.The only hope for a dying creation was a resurrection, a release from the death condition & remaining alive in this only grace of Life. Resurrection was to be a true reward for for those who gave their lives freely to G0D and towards society so they could 'return' ('HaShev') to see what their works achieved in creating the world to come. In other words it was seen as an ideal way to bring justice for those who have sacrificed their lives to better Life for the whole.The afterlife teachings are leading people away from the creators creation by coveting and worshiping and cherishing death rather then seeing the place to come on earth is merely a transformation not another realm.

 

[shimon]

If people were to be truthful of themselves they would study the original Hebrew words where in first kings and other places they show the verses where it says and they went down to so and so village or town or place and slew all the souls in that place by the sword meaning that once they could not breathe and had no breath their souls died with their bodies.. It is pretty straightforward and direct and to the point all that came after was either borrowed from other non Israelite versions and is false and not to be followed... Of course like little children when they are told no people who don't like that answer look in other directions to make themselves feel better even though the should no better then to believe false teachings....

 

[HaShev]

The fact they teach both pagan beliefs of afterlife in death and Judaic concept of resurrecting back into creation to continue life in life should give them a clue that something is severely wrong and contradicting that they should cover both sides of the field. They keep sitting on both sides of the fence, dancing on whichever side fits their particular claim or argument.

 

[Meriweather]

If people were to be truthful of themselves they would study the original Hebrew words where in first kings and other places they show the verses where it says and they went down to so and so village or town or place and slew all the souls in that place by the sword meaning that once they could not breathe and had no breath their souls died with their bodies.. It is pretty straightforward and direct and to the point all that came after was either borrowed from other non Israelite versions and is false and not to be followed... Of course like little children when they are told no people who don't like that answer look in other directions to make themselves feel better even though the should no better then to believe false teachings....

How do you read Genesis 2:7:

Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being (or soul).

Christianity defines the body as its physical parts, and the body remains on earth upon death. The soul encompasses the mind, will, and emotions. The spirit relates to the ability of man to communicate with God.

Upon death, the mind, will, and emotions leave the body, they are no longer present on earth, because a living soul on earth requires a living body. My understanding of what you are saying is that it is your belief that upon death, the mind, emotions, will (the essential part of the person) cease to exist, where my belief is that they cease to exist in the body, only.

 

[Meriweather]

The fact they teach both pagan beliefs of afterlife in death and Judaic concept of resurrecting back into creation to continue life in life should give them a clue that something is severely wrong and contradicting that they should cover both sides of the field. They keep sitting on both sides of the fence, dancing on whichever side fits their particular claim or argument.

The fact is, we teach Christian belief, which is at some point after death the soul receives a glorified body, one not subject to decay, and which lives in the presence of God.