What Would You Do? (Education)

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

-First of all your children's credentials do NOT add on to yours. Knowing people doesn't make you an expert on that topic or give you more insight. If that were the case I'd be very knowledgable about baseball since I know a few MLB players.

-From what I can see about your post you have exactly 0 years experience teaching in a K-12 classroom

Seriously if you're going to use ethos to make your argument, at least have it be relevant.

LOL

It is good that you can laugh at yourself, just like we are doing at you!

That's it? That's the best you've got? You can't even make a cogent argument for your position, but instead resort to childish and mindless ridicule of someone who disagrees with you??

You ARE the problem.

I responded with a lot more than you did to the other poster's very well-constructed post showing how you are completely clueless. You deserve every bot of ridicule because you fit the mold of an educator wannabe so well!

When asked for suggestions, you act just like the school board members that get elected here locally, who are lucky to have a certificate from a junior college on their resume. Anyone with a bit of sense knows the job of a school board member is long on hours, short on pay, and devoid of any meaningful respect, just like being a K-12 teacher.

You at least should know that.

You really don't see it, do you?

It's the parent's fault.
It's the student's fault.
It's the school board's fault.
Now, it's the community's fault.

Listen to yourself .... it will probably be the first time.

OK, so you can read when you want to!

Now, pony up those suggestions as to how we deal with all of those problems because teachers are tapped out!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Thank you for admitting that you are completely unqualified. You have no educational background in education.

The very personification of the arrogance that is ruining our education system, and our kids. That is EXACTLY the attitude you portray to parents - and you wonder why they don't get involved.

You ARE the problem.

You have made zero experience in K-12 other than you passed through the grades. Your arrogance is assuming that you are remotely qualified to make judgements on something you have not personally experienced.

Your arrogance is only exceeded by the size of your ego.

At least I am qualified to state my opinions, unlike you.

Another snarky, childish attack .... how unlike you.

You think it is childish because it exposes you as a fraud. Too bad!

 

[Spare_change]

Anybody notice how defensive the education community gets when you question their performance and their value? They produce a failed product and yet they have the temerity to claim THEY know best. How DARE we demand excellence, how DARE we demand accountability?

Doors slam shut ..... and they wonder why they can't get the average citizen involved.

Go easy with the broad brush.

I'm going to comment a second time ... I want to be absolutely clear.

I've known a lot of good teachers - great teachers. Unfortunately, a lot of the good ones get so ground down by the "system", get so frustrated by the incompetent administration, and yes, get tired of putting up with undisciplined kids and uncaring parents that they just start "mailing it in".

i don't blame them. But, I DO want to help them.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I'd simply choose one of the top 5 educational systems on earth and apply it to our country....

Of course, I'd increase the punishment on the trouble makers.

 

[Spare_change]

LOL

It is good that you can laugh at yourself, just like we are doing at you!

That's it? That's the best you've got? You can't even make a cogent argument for your position, but instead resort to childish and mindless ridicule of someone who disagrees with you??

You ARE the problem.

I responded with a lot more than you did to the other poster's very well-constructed post showing how you are completely clueless. You deserve every bot of ridicule because you fit the mold of an educator wannabe so well!

When asked for suggestions, you act just like the school board members that get elected here locally, who are lucky to have a certificate from a junior college on their resume. Anyone with a bit of sense knows the job of a school board member is long on hours, short on pay, and devoid of any meaningful respect, just like being a K-12 teacher.

You at least should know that.

You really don't see it, do you?

It's the parent's fault.
It's the student's fault.
It's the school board's fault.
Now, it's the community's fault.

Listen to yourself .... it will probably be the first time.

OK, so you can read when you want to!

Now, pony up those suggestions as to how we deal with all of those problems because teachers are tapped out!

If you had bothered to actually read what was posted here, you would see some of my suggestions. But, I'll tell you what --- I'll just sum it up right here. If you want to discuss the mechanics, I'll be happy to expand later. Just ask the question.

We need to create an educational process that creates qualified, motivated, and empowered graduates. Our current system does not do that.

We not only accept mediocrity, we embrace it - in fact, we encourage it. Schools are eliminating valedictory awards, National Honor Societies - anything that might demonstrate that one student is performing better than others. When schools will not allow the top scholar to be recognized for fear of hurting the feelings of those who didn't reach that level, you have to seriously wonder about the motivation of the system. When schools eliminate honor rolls, or decrease the requirements to be recognized on the honor roll to a level that the average baboon qualifies, you have to seriously wonder about the motivation. We do not celebrate excellence - we suppress it.

We don't condemn lack of performance - we condone it, forgive it, and cover it up. We do not penalize poor performance. We ignore it - we reward the non-performers by advancing them despite their failures. We celebrate those who meet the minimum standard, ignore those who don't, and suppress those who do. Equality over quality. It would seem that it is better that all students graduate academically handicapped, than to push each student to his maximum potential simply because it's easier.

No one seriously questions whether teachers know how to teach. So, what's the problem? It's a problem that faces all segments of society. It is a problem of responsibility. It is a problem of accountability. Simply put, neither teachers nor students are held responsible for the results. No one is accountable.

We must, first, create a system that accurately measures student performance, and establishes levels of responsibility for parents, teachers, students, and administrators. Until we can identify the cause of the problem, we can't fix the problem. There must be rewards - and there must be penalties.

Teachers have the knowledge to do the job, but I'm not convinced they have the tools. We need to change our approach to schools. Today, our goal is to create centralized schools that service a particular geographical area. In order to save money, we make them bigger, and populate them with the latest gadgets. They are nothing more than the latest version of the one room schoolhouse. How about smaller schools, dictated by student population, collocated on centralized campuses?

As I have stated before, I am in favor of eliminating individual grades, based on year of birth, and creating classes based on common capabilities. If we eliminate the so-called "social stigma" of being behind in learning, maybe we can save some of these kids the system today is simply throwing away. Many private schools use what is called the 'pod' approach, in which students of a common level are grouped together for common learning. If this is done immediately when a student begins to fall behind, we can save him/her, and avoid the "17 year old in the same class as a 3rd grader", because we will have identified his shortcoming, addressed it immediately, and brought him up to speed with his contemporaries.

I am not in favor of either the "oooh, you failed to keep up, so we're going to hold you up to public criticism by holding you back" or, even worse, the "Oh, I know you didn't learn as well as the others, but we're just going to push you ahead where your shortfalls can only be exacerbated, resulting in a complete shutdown of the desire to learn". Unfortunately, these are the only two options for students who under-perform we have available today. Nor am I fond of the "You're learning too fast - just sit in the back of the room until the others catch up" approach for super-achievers. Boredom is the quickest way to kill intellectual curiosity.

Smaller schools - smaller classes - teaching focus on rewarding performance and immediate corrective actions for non-performance. It's a simple formula.

Now, school control - I am adamantly opposed to federal control and federal dictates. The federal government has never come up with a one-size-fits-all solution for any problem, much less the most important problem of our time. I believe in state standards, passed down to communities, and local community control of implementation.

Any specific areas you would like me to address? I can wax long and eloquently about special education, ESL programs, the community responsibilities of schools, how to identify, manage, and eliminate substandard teachers. You pick it .... By the way, I am also in favor of a two track system.

 

[Spare_change]

The very personification of the arrogance that is ruining our education system, and our kids. That is EXACTLY the attitude you portray to parents - and you wonder why they don't get involved.

You ARE the problem.

You have made zero experience in K-12 other than you passed through the grades. Your arrogance is assuming that you are remotely qualified to make judgements on something you have not personally experienced.

Your arrogance is only exceeded by the size of your ego.

At least I am qualified to state my opinions, unlike you.

Another snarky, childish attack .... how unlike you.

You think it is childish because it exposes you as a fraud. Too bad!

Rule 4c. When lacking a coherent or cogent counter-argument, attack the poster.

 

[Unkotare]

The National Honor Society is still there. Most schools still have an honor roll and a high honor roll. Don't overreact to the media.

 

[Unkotare]

Go ahead and wax on about ELL while you're in a typing mood.

 

[mgh80]

It is good that you can laugh at yourself, just like we are doing at you!

That's it? That's the best you've got? You can't even make a cogent argument for your position, but instead resort to childish and mindless ridicule of someone who disagrees with you??

You ARE the problem.

I responded with a lot more than you did to the other poster's very well-constructed post showing how you are completely clueless. You deserve every bot of ridicule because you fit the mold of an educator wannabe so well!

When asked for suggestions, you act just like the school board members that get elected here locally, who are lucky to have a certificate from a junior college on their resume. Anyone with a bit of sense knows the job of a school board member is long on hours, short on pay, and devoid of any meaningful respect, just like being a K-12 teacher.

You at least should know that.

You really don't see it, do you?

It's the parent's fault.
It's the student's fault.
It's the school board's fault.
Now, it's the community's fault.

Listen to yourself .... it will probably be the first time.

OK, so you can read when you want to!

Now, pony up those suggestions as to how we deal with all of those problems because teachers are tapped out!

If you had bothered to actually read what was posted here, you would see some of my suggestions. But, I'll tell you what --- I'll just sum it up right here. If you want to discuss the mechanics, I'll be happy to expand later. Just ask the question.

We need to create an educational process that creates qualified, motivated, and empowered graduates. Our current system does not do that.

We not only accept mediocrity, we embrace it - in fact, we encourage it. Schools are eliminating valedictory awards, National Honor Societies - anything that might demonstrate that one student is performing better than others. When schools will not allow the top scholar to be recognized for fear of hurting the feelings of those who didn't reach that level, you have to seriously wonder about the motivation of the system. When schools eliminate honor rolls, or decrease the requirements to be recognized on the honor roll to a level that the average baboon qualifies, you have to seriously wonder about the motivation. We do not celebrate excellence - we suppress it.

We don't condemn lack of performance - we condone it, forgive it, and cover it up. We do not penalize poor performance. We ignore it - we reward the non-performers by advancing them despite their failures. We celebrate those who meet the minimum standard, ignore those who don't, and suppress those who do. Equality over quality. It would seem that it is better that all students graduate academically handicapped, than to push each student to his maximum potential simply because it's easier.

No one seriously questions whether teachers know how to teach. So, what's the problem? It's a problem that faces all segments of society. It is a problem of responsibility. It is a problem of accountability. Simply put, neither teachers nor students are held responsible for the results. No one is accountable.

We must, first, create a system that accurately measures student performance, and establishes levels of responsibility for parents, teachers, students, and administrators. Until we can identify the cause of the problem, we can't fix the problem. There must be rewards - and there must be penalties.

Teachers have the knowledge to do the job, but I'm not convinced they have the tools. We need to change our approach to schools. Today, our goal is to create centralized schools that service a particular geographical area. In order to save money, we make them bigger, and populate them with the latest gadgets. They are nothing more than the latest version of the one room schoolhouse. How about smaller schools, dictated by student population, collocated on centralized campuses?

As I have stated before, I am in favor of eliminating individual grades, based on year of birth, and creating classes based on common capabilities. If we eliminate the so-called "social stigma" of being behind in learning, maybe we can save some of these kids the system today is simply throwing away. Many private schools use what is called the 'pod' approach, in which students of a common level are grouped together for common learning. If this is done immediately when a student begins to fall behind, we can save him/her, and avoid the "17 year old in the same class as a 3rd grader", because we will have identified his shortcoming, addressed it immediately, and brought him up to speed with his contemporaries.

I am not in favor of either the "oooh, you failed to keep up, so we're going to hold you up to public criticism by holding you back" or, even worse, the "Oh, I know you didn't learn as well as the others, but we're just going to push you ahead where your shortfalls can only be exacerbated, resulting in a complete shutdown of the desire to learn". Unfortunately, these are the only two options for students who under-perform we have available today. Nor am I fond of the "You're learning too fast - just sit in the back of the room until the others catch up" approach for super-achievers. Boredom is the quickest way to kill intellectual curiosity.

Smaller schools - smaller classes - teaching focus on rewarding performance and immediate corrective actions for non-performance. It's a simple formula.

Now, school control - I am adamantly opposed to federal control and federal dictates. The federal government has never come up with a one-size-fits-all solution for any problem, much less the most important problem of our time. I believe in state standards, passed down to communities, and local community control of implementation.

Any specific areas you would like me to address? I can wax long and eloquently about special education, ESL programs, the community responsibilities of schools, how to identify, manage, and eliminate substandard teachers. You pick it .... By the way, I am also in favor of a two track system.

-My school has an honor roll and high honor roll. As a reward the students who make it are invited to a free BBQ during their lunch period--the kids who don't make the honor roll aren't allowed to attend. Graduating with honors also gets to walk across the stage first, and wear a special color to distinguish them from the "regular" graduates.

-We have a valedictorian who gives the commencement speech at graduation

-We have "reg" classes, honor class, and AP classes...students are grouped together based on ability for the most part (there's always fluctuation to a certain degree obviously)...although honestly there are quite a few kids who get put into honor classes because of their behavior...some reg classes can be challenging for teachers and students who don't know what they're doing.

-More importantly a HUGE flaw with your argument: you actually don't want to group up students of the same ability in class-what's the point? I place low kids with medium, and medium with high (I really break down medium in medium low and medium high but let's not get too far in depth). Why?

-If you group a low kid with a high kid the high kid will do all of the work and the low kid gets a free pass
-If you group a low kid with another low kid they're going to struggle completing the work and probably not gain the knowledge required (struggling is ok--never acquiring the required skills is not)
-If you group that low kid with a medium kid the low kid will work AND learn from a kid who has a higher ability that the low kid couldn't do with a kid of their caliber. It also benefits the medium kid because by teaching somebody the skills required, they're going to fine tune their knowledge ahead of time and solidify their grasp on concepts, increasing the ability of the medium kid as well.

Honestly the above is teaching 101 and something I learned at the end of my first year or the middle of my second year of teaching IIRC.

-As far as teachers being held accountable: as I stated before (which you conveniently ignored): I'm evaluated by my district, principal, AP's in terms of observations (including informals where they come into my classroom and evaluate the class without a heads up), they also look the writing scores from my students, their exam scores, SATs (if applicable), and they track the progress of the students from year to year as well. At the year of the year we're given a number score (VAM score) telling us how well or poorly we did. Teachers can and do get fired for failing to reach an effective level of performance. Newer teachers get more flexibility (because you obviously wouldn't expect a first year teacher to perform as well as a twenty year teacher), but I've seen plenty of teachers let go due to poor performance. For the record last year I was rated as being highly effective, and received a bonus for doing so. It's not easy since most teachers do not receive the bonus. How is that not being held accountable?

-I'm not sure which "gadgets" you're speaking of, but please give my district a call and inform them-because I sure you my classroom is severely lacking (hell I don't even have a working printer).

-I happen to agree that the school system pushes the lower level kids through too easily...it's why so many kids hate my class (in the beginning), but love it by the time they leave. I hold them accountable and will not push them through.

-Smaller classrooms would obviously be ideal. I currently have 25 kids in each class and while that's certainly manageable, it's not that far away from having a ratio of too many students per teacher. Somehow this year I got one period of 19 kids, and the rest 25. That class with 19 kids performs better on their writings and exams. So why not go down to about 20 kids per class instead of 25? Money.

 

[Spare_change]

The National Honor Society is still there. Most schools still have an honor roll and a high honor roll. Don't overreact to the media.

I'm not overreacting to the media - I AM, however, reacting to local conditions, and what clearly is developing (and has been developing for several years) in our society. Many schools still have them - but, for how long?

 

[mgh80]

The National Honor Society is still there. Most schools still have an honor roll and a high honor roll. Don't overreact to the media.

I'm not overreacting to the media - I AM, however, reacting to local conditions, and what clearly is developing (and has been developing for several years) in our society. Many schools still have them - but, for how long?

I have heard of zero push to remove academic accolades...if anything I've heard about pushing for more of them. Tell my students who have less than a "C" average and can't play on the school's football/basketball teams that the schools are getting rid of promoting academic achievement.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Technology is the driving force of change in education. It's become possible to study any subject with any teacher anywhere in the world, remotely. Virtual reality can enable students to attend a classroom full of avatars.
Technology distributes power away from centralized models like our expensive 20th century education system.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Technology is the driving force of change in education. It's become possible to study any subject with any teacher anywhere in the world, remotely. Virtual reality can enable students to attend a classroom full of avatars.
Technology distributes power away from centralized models like our expensive 20th century education system.

As time passes, the on-line education model is proving to be more and more of a failure.

 

[Spare_change]

The National Honor Society is still there. Most schools still have an honor roll and a high honor roll. Don't overreact to the media.

I'm not overreacting to the media - I AM, however, reacting to local conditions, and what clearly is developing (and has been developing for several years) in our society. Many schools still have them - but, for how long?

I have heard of zero push to remove academic accolades...if anything I've heard about pushing for more of them. Tell my students who have less than a "C" average and can't play on the school's football/basketball teams that the schools are getting rid of promoting academic achievement.

That doesn't promote academic achievement - it promotes academic mediocrity.

 

[Spare_change]

That's it? That's the best you've got? You can't even make a cogent argument for your position, but instead resort to childish and mindless ridicule of someone who disagrees with you??

You ARE the problem.

I responded with a lot more than you did to the other poster's very well-constructed post showing how you are completely clueless. You deserve every bot of ridicule because you fit the mold of an educator wannabe so well!

When asked for suggestions, you act just like the school board members that get elected here locally, who are lucky to have a certificate from a junior college on their resume. Anyone with a bit of sense knows the job of a school board member is long on hours, short on pay, and devoid of any meaningful respect, just like being a K-12 teacher.

You at least should know that.

You really don't see it, do you?

It's the parent's fault.
It's the student's fault.
It's the school board's fault.
Now, it's the community's fault.

Listen to yourself .... it will probably be the first time.

OK, so you can read when you want to!

Now, pony up those suggestions as to how we deal with all of those problems because teachers are tapped out!

If you had bothered to actually read what was posted here, you would see some of my suggestions. But, I'll tell you what --- I'll just sum it up right here. If you want to discuss the mechanics, I'll be happy to expand later. Just ask the question.

We need to create an educational process that creates qualified, motivated, and empowered graduates. Our current system does not do that.

We not only accept mediocrity, we embrace it - in fact, we encourage it. Schools are eliminating valedictory awards, National Honor Societies - anything that might demonstrate that one student is performing better than others. When schools will not allow the top scholar to be recognized for fear of hurting the feelings of those who didn't reach that level, you have to seriously wonder about the motivation of the system. When schools eliminate honor rolls, or decrease the requirements to be recognized on the honor roll to a level that the average baboon qualifies, you have to seriously wonder about the motivation. We do not celebrate excellence - we suppress it.

We don't condemn lack of performance - we condone it, forgive it, and cover it up. We do not penalize poor performance. We ignore it - we reward the non-performers by advancing them despite their failures. We celebrate those who meet the minimum standard, ignore those who don't, and suppress those who do. Equality over quality. It would seem that it is better that all students graduate academically handicapped, than to push each student to his maximum potential simply because it's easier.

No one seriously questions whether teachers know how to teach. So, what's the problem? It's a problem that faces all segments of society. It is a problem of responsibility. It is a problem of accountability. Simply put, neither teachers nor students are held responsible for the results. No one is accountable.

We must, first, create a system that accurately measures student performance, and establishes levels of responsibility for parents, teachers, students, and administrators. Until we can identify the cause of the problem, we can't fix the problem. There must be rewards - and there must be penalties.

Teachers have the knowledge to do the job, but I'm not convinced they have the tools. We need to change our approach to schools. Today, our goal is to create centralized schools that service a particular geographical area. In order to save money, we make them bigger, and populate them with the latest gadgets. They are nothing more than the latest version of the one room schoolhouse. How about smaller schools, dictated by student population, collocated on centralized campuses?

As I have stated before, I am in favor of eliminating individual grades, based on year of birth, and creating classes based on common capabilities. If we eliminate the so-called "social stigma" of being behind in learning, maybe we can save some of these kids the system today is simply throwing away. Many private schools use what is called the 'pod' approach, in which students of a common level are grouped together for common learning. If this is done immediately when a student begins to fall behind, we can save him/her, and avoid the "17 year old in the same class as a 3rd grader", because we will have identified his shortcoming, addressed it immediately, and brought him up to speed with his contemporaries.

I am not in favor of either the "oooh, you failed to keep up, so we're going to hold you up to public criticism by holding you back" or, even worse, the "Oh, I know you didn't learn as well as the others, but we're just going to push you ahead where your shortfalls can only be exacerbated, resulting in a complete shutdown of the desire to learn". Unfortunately, these are the only two options for students who under-perform we have available today. Nor am I fond of the "You're learning too fast - just sit in the back of the room until the others catch up" approach for super-achievers. Boredom is the quickest way to kill intellectual curiosity.

Smaller schools - smaller classes - teaching focus on rewarding performance and immediate corrective actions for non-performance. It's a simple formula.

Now, school control - I am adamantly opposed to federal control and federal dictates. The federal government has never come up with a one-size-fits-all solution for any problem, much less the most important problem of our time. I believe in state standards, passed down to communities, and local community control of implementation.

Any specific areas you would like me to address? I can wax long and eloquently about special education, ESL programs, the community responsibilities of schools, how to identify, manage, and eliminate substandard teachers. You pick it .... By the way, I am also in favor of a two track system.

-My school has an honor roll and high honor roll. As a reward the students who make it are invited to a free BBQ during their lunch period--the kids who don't make the honor roll aren't allowed to attend. Graduating with honors also gets to walk across the stage first, and wear a special color to distinguish them from the "regular" graduates.

-We have a valedictorian who gives the commencement speech at graduation

-We have "reg" classes, honor class, and AP classes...students are grouped together based on ability for the most part (there's always fluctuation to a certain degree obviously)...although honestly there are quite a few kids who get put into honor classes because of their behavior...some reg classes can be challenging for teachers and students who don't know what they're doing.

-More importantly a HUGE flaw with your argument: you actually don't want to group up students of the same ability in class-what's the point? I place low kids with medium, and medium with high (I really break down medium in medium low and medium high but let's not get too far in depth). Why?

-If you group a low kid with a high kid the high kid will do all of the work and the low kid gets a free pass
-If you group a low kid with another low kid they're going to struggle completing the work and probably not gain the knowledge required (struggling is ok--never acquiring the required skills is not)
-If you group that low kid with a medium kid the low kid will work AND learn from a kid who has a higher ability that the low kid couldn't do with a kid of their caliber. It also benefits the medium kid because by teaching somebody the skills required, they're going to fine tune their knowledge ahead of time and solidify their grasp on concepts, increasing the ability of the medium kid as well.

Honestly the above is teaching 101 and something I learned at the end of my first year or the middle of my second year of teaching IIRC.

-As far as teachers being held accountable: as I stated before (which you conveniently ignored): I'm evaluated by my district, principal, AP's in terms of observations (including informals where they come into my classroom and evaluate the class without a heads up), they also look the writing scores from my students, their exam scores, SATs (if applicable), and they track the progress of the students from year to year as well. At the year of the year we're given a number score (VAM score) telling us how well or poorly we did. Teachers can and do get fired for failing to reach an effective level of performance. Newer teachers get more flexibility (because you obviously wouldn't expect a first year teacher to perform as well as a twenty year teacher), but I've seen plenty of teachers let go due to poor performance. For the record last year I was rated as being highly effective, and received a bonus for doing so. It's not easy since most teachers do not receive the bonus. How is that not being held accountable?

-I'm not sure which "gadgets" you're speaking of, but please give my district a call and inform them-because I sure you my classroom is severely lacking (hell I don't even have a working printer).

-I happen to agree that the school system pushes the lower level kids through too easily...it's why so many kids hate my class (in the beginning), but love it by the time they leave. I hold them accountable and will not push them through.

-Smaller classrooms would obviously be ideal. I currently have 25 kids in each class and while that's certainly manageable, it's not that far away from having a ratio of too many students per teacher. Somehow this year I got one period of 19 kids, and the rest 25. That class with 19 kids performs better on their writings and exams. So why not go down to about 20 kids per class instead of 25? Money.

I appreciate your response - honest and adult - unlike some we've gotten here from the 'education community'.

To address the issues:

I agree that there are schools, such as yours, that recognize and reward excellence. But, as we have witnessed, there has been a movement in the education industry to eliminate these types of activities, lest we “hurt their feelings”. Life is a competitive arena, and we do our kids no service if we don’t prepare them for the ups and downs of that competition. We have a whole generation of “participation trophy” kids today who need safe spaces and play doh because they can’t handle the agony of losing an election. We hardly did them any service at all.

“Honor classes” and “AP classes” bring up a whole different area. First, I am absolutely in favor of anything that challenge each student. But, I had a conversation with an AP teacher at one of our local high schools, and he brought up a very interesting point. The cost of honors classes, he claims, is a sop to politically active parents, and penalizes those children who do not take those classes. He went on to explain that the additional cost-per-student is significantly higher than a regular class, and that the students tended to be affluent white students. That additional cost is focused on a relatively small percentage of students, and is denied to all the other students. It was an interesting point of view.

Having said that, I believe in challenging every student. I believe in AP, or Honors, and I believe in classes that are geared to the future capacity, not the current capability, of each student. Your point about mixing and matching High-average and average-low students is, of course, the appropriate way. I was painting with a broad brush when I said we needed challenging courses at each level. However, I think you must admit that schools do not actively consider class structure when assigning students – some schools pay lip service to it, but in truth, it really becomes a lotto whether you get a class of performers or a class of non-performers (those tend to be cast in molasses, whereas the it is the median students that follow the direction of the class leaders – whether they be performers or non-performers).

As for teacher evaluations – you and I both know that those evaluations are generally conducted by people who have two common traits: 1) they have a vested interest in the results of that evaluation, and 2) they are people who have either deserted the classroom, or haven’t been in the classroom in 20 years. Even worse, they measure the teacher against a model that has failed our students for 50 years. Evaluations need to be measured against concrete performance standards, not opinions, and need to accurately document the teacher’s strengths and weaknesses. We’ve all seen the little ol’ teacher who has been carried by the administration, or because the new guy is the principal’s best friend. As long as you have subjective criteria, opinions matter. The current teacher evaluation methodology are, more often, a formality. Your speak of a much more rigorous, and formalized, evaluation process than I’ve seen in any school district I’ve been associated with. I’m curious – where do you teach? (I might tell my kids to put the grandkids there!!!)

Gadgets --- both the bane and the real solution for the teaching quandry. We spend a lot of money on whiteboards and displays, computers, etc., but we give teachers very little training on how to maximize the use of them. I am a proponent of the Khan Academy approach – in fact, I’ve gone back and taken several refresher courses from them – and strongly believe that we need to turn each classroom into its own Khan Academy. You should be able to create a lesson plan (ONCE!), develop the corresponding lectures (ONCE), create the workbook (ONCE) and the measurement devices (ONCE). A lecture presented on the computer to each student, absorbed at the student’s rate, with questions that measure his comprehension (which is, in turn, used to determine the student’s direction – forward or back over the same info). When you couple that with interactive class discussion, you can reach children of varying learning methodologies.

Instead, we try to shoehorn technology into the current failed system, and are surprised why the system stays failed. Then, to even further exacerbate the problem, we then measure the new system using the same failed metrics and are further surprised when it fails.

It just may be time to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over. We need smaller classes, more accurately targeting specific strata of students. We need upgraded tools, and tightly defined goals. We need specific criteria, both for student and teacher measurement, and we need to standardize requirements across the spectrum. Technology is the force multiplier that will do this.

But, again – thank you for the cogent comments.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Technology is the driving force of change in education. It's become possible to study any subject with any teacher anywhere in the world, remotely. Virtual reality can enable students to attend a classroom full of avatars.
Technology distributes power away from centralized models like our expensive 20th century education system.

As time passes, the on-line education model is proving to be more and more of a failure.

We just entered the Digital Age, which has made information cheap and free-flowing. None of us can see exactly where and how the Digital Age will transform education.

The 20th century model of higher education is a massive brick and mortar institution that costs tens of thousands of dollars per year for the privilege to attend. That model only hangs on due to cultural lag.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Technology is the driving force of change in education. It's become possible to study any subject with any teacher anywhere in the world, remotely. Virtual reality can enable students to attend a classroom full of avatars.
Technology distributes power away from centralized models like our expensive 20th century education system.

As time passes, the on-line education model is proving to be more and more of a failure.

We just entered the Digital Age, which has made information cheap and free-flowing. None of us can see exactly where and how the Digital Age will transform education.

The 20th century model of higher education is a massive brick and mortar institution that costs tens of thousands of dollars per year for the privilege to attend. That model only hangs on due to cultural lag.

Just entered? Virtual schools and computer-based learning has been around for almost 3 decades! My first teaching job used computer-based remediation for a high school competency test, and that was over 20 years ago.

The rigor of these programs is especially suspect and students do not even retain the information.

 

[Unkotare]

If there's one constant, it's that there is always someone sure they have "solved" the problem of the "failure" of education. It never works out that way. The attitude strikes me as similar to considering medicine a "failure" as long as some patients still die.

 

[usmbguest5318]

What would you do to turn around our obviously malfunctioning education system?

All options are on the table --- what's your recommendations?

• Stop passing people on to the next grade when they haven't earned the right to move on. Some children will be "left behind" (or will remain, say, 7th graders, or 4th graders, or 10th graders, or whatever until they are 18) Accept that reality and move on.
• Go back to the grading scale that was used when I came along:
  • 93-100 - A
  • 85-92 - B
  • 77-84 - C
  • 70-77 - D
• Teach children how to study.
• Start teaching academics (reading, writing, counting, adding and subtracting) in the last year of pre-K, but without assigning actual grades for performance in that year. Performance grading begin in kindergarten as does application of the basic skills introduced the year before.
• Set core subjects' curricula for high school students equal to the content of what currently are deemed AP classes. (Being in school all year (see below), there's no reason they can't handle it.)
  
• Cap teacher to student ratio at 15:1. Even that is a lot when you consider that in the workplace, about six direct reports is reasonable, and ten is possible in a stretch...and there you're talking about adults who require anywhere near the amounts of supervision and close attention that children do, to say nothing of one's not actually teaching them things they absolutely don't know how to do at all..
• Require Calculus BC (B- or better), Macro and Micro Economics (B or better averaged over both classes), Physics (C or better), English composition (B or better averaged over three years) and Statistics (B or better) as part of high school graduation requirements.
• Confer high school diplomas only to students having a 2.7 or better GPA in core classes (all math, all science, all English composition taken in the 9th through 12th grades), and 2.0+ overall.
• Offer early specialization options to students who upon completing the 10th grade have a 3.5 or higher overall GPA and a 3.8 or higher GPA in core classes. Why?
  • Allows high performing students who don't like maths/science and who don't have an interest in pursuing a life that will call for them to not take them after algebra and geometry.
  • Less high performers need to continue to take the core classes because of the non-topic-specific skills - critical thinking, or a semblance of it, in particular - they build.
• Scheduling:
• The following is just a rough outline. There are myriad ways to flex it, but the point is that kids would be in school all year long, thereby giving them something purposeful to do all year long. What this does is have typical students completing what we now think of as senior year of high school one year sooner. That leaves the following year for them to take a job, travel, do internships/practica, volunteer for personal enrichment or to develop skills needed for work, or to start college if they want to.
  • Make school a year-round thing, and in addition to the current holidays and vacation breaks, put three one week breaks and one two week break in at various points during the year rather than clustering the bulk of them into the summer. Parents work all year; school is just work for kids.
    • Christmas break - 12/24/xx and 1/2/xx (adds four days to the school year)
  • Align the school day with a standard work day so parents can drop off their kids before work and pick them up after work.
  • Teachers move around from classroom to classroom; students stay put in their classrooms
  • School Day: 8:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. -- This can be flexed in myriad ways. The key is that the school day includes the semi-structured time after classes, but still in the school building where any resources they may need are available, when students can do their assignments, be it independently or with their friends.
    • Morning classes -- 8:30 - 10:10 (two 50 min. class sessions)
    • Mid morning 1/3 hour break
    • Late morning classes 10:30 - 12:10 (two 50 min. class sessions)
    • Lunch (45 minutes)
    • Early afternoon classes 1:00 - 2:40 (two 50 min. class sessions)
    • Mid afternoon 1/3 hour break
    • Late afternoon class (50 min.) and/or study hall (required, but study hall is shorter for kids who take a seventh class) & extracurriculars 3:00 - 7:00
      - Students free to go at any time after 5:30 p.m., as per parental discretion
      • Study hall overseen by tutors - graduate/undergraduate students, retired professionals, and/or interested parties who have the subject matter knowledge needed to help studying students as needed. Pay tutors if need be, but at lower hourly rates than teachers. Teachers can elect to be tutors, but they'll have to agree to do it at the lower wage rate. Think of the study hall as something like college professors' office hours.
    • Of course a more traditional class schedule but still having the on-site, required study hall period can work too. Here are a couple samples, one with specific classes noted:
      
      
      
      
      
      
      Here's a sample seventh grader's schedule, followed by some explanation, at a school near me. The mandatory study hall I've suggested would just be tacked on at the end of the day.
      
      
      
      
      
      Students generally arrive at school between 7:40 and 7:50 so that they can empty their backpacks into lockers and prepare for the first class. The school day begins with silence in the homeroom or team at 8:00 am and runs until 3:30 pm except on Tuesdays, when school ends at 2:00 pm. Students who arrive after the 8:00 bell are required to wait in a “late room” until silence ends.
      
      The classes that all seventh and eighth graders take are Arts, English, a Modern or Classical Language, Math, Science, and Social Studies. These are described in the following section. Students follow a modified block schedule: all classes meet three days a week, and each class meets for one additional long period each week. Academic classes are scheduled between 8:15 and 2:00 each day (1:00 on Tuesday), and 7/8 students eat lunch at 11:00.
      
      All 7/8 students go to PE class from 2:00 – 3:15 each day except Tuesday (1:00 - 2:00pm) and there is no PE on Fridays. The PE period incorporates the athletics program, including practices and most games.
      
      All Middle School students attend Meeting for Worship in groups of varying sizes on Thursday mornings for approximately one-half hour. The advisory curriculum is taught on Monday mornings. There is a period for chorus and orchestra rehearsals on Wednesday afternoons, and the final period of each Friday is set aside for Middle School assemblies.
      

 

[Spare_change]

What would you do to turn around our obviously malfunctioning education system?

All options are on the table --- what's your recommendations?

• Stop passing people on to the next grade when they haven't earned the right to move on. Some children will be "left behind" (or will remain, say, 7th graders, or 4th graders, or 10th graders, or whatever until they are 18) Accept that reality and move on.
• Go back to the grading scale that was used when I came along:
  • 93-100 - A
  • 85-92 - B
  • 77-84 - C
  • 70-77 - D
• Teach children how to study.
• Start teaching academics (reading, writing, counting, adding and subtracting) in the last year of pre-K, but without assigning actual grades for performance in that year. Performance grading begin in kindergarten as does application of the basic skills introduced the year before.
• Set core subjects' curricula for high school students equal to the content of what currently are deemed AP classes. (Being in school all year (see below), there's no reason they can't handle it.)
  
• Cap teacher to student ratio at 15:1. Even that is a lot when you consider that in the workplace, about six direct reports is reasonable, and ten is possible in a stretch...and there you're talking about adults who require anywhere near the amounts of supervision and close attention that children do, to say nothing of one's not actually teaching them things they absolutely don't know how to do at all..
• Require Calculus BC (B- or better), Macro and Micro Economics (B or better averaged over both classes), Physics (C or better), English composition (B or better averaged over three years) and Statistics (B or better) as part of high school graduation requirements.
• Confer high school diplomas only to students having a 2.7 or better GPA in core classes (all math, all science, all English composition taken in the 9th through 12th grades), and 2.0+ overall.
• Offer early specialization options to students who upon completing the 10th grade have a 3.5 or higher overall GPA and a 3.8 or higher GPA in core classes. Why?
  • Allows high performing students who don't like maths/science and who don't have an interest in pursuing a life that will call for them to not take them after algebra and geometry.
  • Less high performers need to continue to take the core classes because of the non-topic-specific skills - critical thinking, or a semblance of it, in particular - they build.
• Scheduling:
• The following is just a rough outline. There are myriad ways to flex it, but the point is that kids would be in school all year long, thereby giving them something purposeful to do all year long. What this does is have typical students completing what we now think of as senior year of high school one year sooner. That leaves the following year for them to take a job, travel, do internships/practica, volunteer for personal enrichment or to develop skills needed for work, or to start college if they want to.
  • Make school a year-round thing, and in addition to the current holidays and vacation breaks, put three one week breaks and one two week break in at various points during the year rather than clustering the bulk of them into the summer. Parents work all year; school is just work for kids.
    • Christmas break - 12/24/xx and 1/2/xx (adds four days to the school year)
  • Align the school day with a standard work day so parents can drop off their kids before work and pick them up after work.
  • Teachers move around from classroom to classroom; students stay put in their classrooms
  • School Day: 8:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. -- This can be flexed in myriad ways. The key is that the school day includes the semi-structured time after classes, but still in the school building where any resources they may need are available, when students can do their assignments, be it independently or with their friends.
    • Morning classes -- 8:30 - 10:10 (two 50 min. class sessions)
    • Mid morning 1/3 hour break
    • Late morning classes 10:30 - 12:10 (two 50 min. class sessions)
    • Lunch (45 minutes)
    • Early afternoon classes 1:00 - 2:40 (two 50 min. class sessions)
    • Mid afternoon 1/3 hour break
    • Late afternoon class (50 min.) and/or study hall (required, but study hall is shorter for kids who take a seventh class) & extracurriculars 3:00 - 7:00
      - Students free to go at any time after 5:30 p.m., as per parental discretion
      • Study hall overseen by tutors - graduate/undergraduate students, retired professionals, and/or interested parties who have the subject matter knowledge needed to help studying students as needed. Pay tutors if need be, but at lower hourly rates than teachers. Teachers can elect to be tutors, but they'll have to agree to do it at the lower wage rate. Think of the study hall as something like college professors' office hours.
    • Of course a more traditional class schedule but still having the on-site, required study hall period can work too. Here are a couple samples, one with specific classes noted:
      
      
      
      
      
      
      Here's a sample seventh grader's schedule, followed by some explanation, at a school near me. The mandatory study hall I've suggested would just be tacked on at the end of the day.
      
      
      
      
      
      Students generally arrive at school between 7:40 and 7:50 so that they can empty their backpacks into lockers and prepare for the first class. The school day begins with silence in the homeroom or team at 8:00 am and runs until 3:30 pm except on Tuesdays, when school ends at 2:00 pm. Students who arrive after the 8:00 bell are required to wait in a “late room” until silence ends.
      
      The classes that all seventh and eighth graders take are Arts, English, a Modern or Classical Language, Math, Science, and Social Studies. These are described in the following section. Students follow a modified block schedule: all classes meet three days a week, and each class meets for one additional long period each week. Academic classes are scheduled between 8:15 and 2:00 each day (1:00 on Tuesday), and 7/8 students eat lunch at 11:00.
      
      All 7/8 students go to PE class from 2:00 – 3:15 each day except Tuesday (1:00 - 2:00pm) and there is no PE on Fridays. The PE period incorporates the athletics program, including practices and most games.
      
      All Middle School students attend Meeting for Worship in groups of varying sizes on Thursday mornings for approximately one-half hour. The advisory curriculum is taught on Monday mornings. There is a period for chorus and orchestra rehearsals on Wednesday afternoons, and the final period of each Friday is set aside for Middle School assemblies.

Excellent input.

While I agree with the vast majority of your recommendations, I still believe that elimination of the arbitrary grade levels/promotions is the way to go. Put each student on a math (or whatever discipline) continuum, and teach him at the level at which he is performing, no matter his age.

How do you see the financial impact of your proposals?

I also noticed a reference to "worship", etc.(specifically, the seventh graders schedule model). Was that because it was in the model you were citing, or are you actually proposing generic/specific religious teaching?

Further, I did not see any reference to "trade" classes - typing, computers, woodworking, etc. Would you find a 'dual track' approach, dependent on student's interest/capabilities, or do you feel strongly about teaching everybody the same thru graduation?