What will increase more jobs?

[KMAN]

Increasing corporate taxes?

Decreasing corporate Taxes?

 

[Shogun]

decreasing taxes according to americans on payroll and increasing them for those who look outside the US for goods and services to sell to the American market.

 

[Mad Scientist]

decreasing taxes according to americans on payroll

Ok, got that. We agree.

...and increasing them for those who look outside the US for goods and services to sell to the American market.

Who do you mean by "those"? Do you mean the individual person who buys something from overseas or companies that import goods?

 

[Shogun]

I mean our outsourced jobs and imported goods must match the rate at which we take on outsourced jobs FROM foreign nations and export our goods. Anything after that I'm willing to consider heavy tariffs. We can't continue to believe some capitalist pipe dream about free markets when those free markets have used the American consumer like a global stepladder. If we don't protect OUR society then there will be nothing to protect until our standards of living is normalized with every third world ghetto that can pump out cheap plastic shit sold at wal mart.

 

[dilloduck]

I mean our outsourced jobs and imported goods must match the rate at which we take on outsourced jobs FROM foreign nations and export our goods. Anything after that I'm willing to consider heavy tariffs. We can't continue to believe some capitalist pipe dream about free markets when those free markets have used the American consumer like a global stepladder. If we don't protect OUR society then there will be nothing to protect until our standards of living is normalized with every third world ghetto that can pump out cheap plastic shit sold at wal mart.

Which society ? The term is becoming meaningless in America. It's global all the way now, baby. I hope we get assigned to a cool global function other than providing the rest of the world with entertainment.

 

[Mad Scientist]

I mean our outsourced jobs and imported goods must match the rate at which we take on outsourced jobs FROM foreign nations and export our goods. Anything after that I'm willing to consider heavy tariffs. We can't continue to believe some capitalist pipe dream about free markets when those free markets have used the American consumer like a global stepladder. If we don't protect OUR society then there will be nothing to protect until our standards of living is normalized with every third world ghetto that can pump out cheap plastic shit sold at wal mart.

Free markets haven't used the consumer, in fact it's the other way around. Consumers use the free market and they vote with their wallets. Wal-Mart is where it is because the people have voted with their wallets. They have chosen.
If you favor heavy tariffs then you favor raising prices on the very people who can afford it least. Companies aren't just going to eat the tariffs as a cost of business, they're gonna pass it on to the consumer via higher prices.
That's gonna be especially bad for the lower classes in the coming years as gas prices will rise and stay there because the current administration, Barack and the Democrats in Congress, will kill all drilling for more oil. Guaranteed.
So yes, the people will have more money in their pockets but will just have to pay it back out and more in higher energy costs which translates to higher food costs as everything gets transported everywhere.

 

[dilloduck]

Free markets haven't used the consumer, in fact it's the other way around. Consumers use the free market and they vote with their wallets. Wal-Mart is where it is because the people have voted with their wallets. They have chosen.
If you favor heavy tariffs then you favor raising prices on the very people who can afford it least. Companies aren't just going to eat the tariffs as a cost of business, they're gonna pass it on to the consumer via higher prices.
That's gonna be especially bad for the lower classes in the coming years as gas prices will rise and stay there because the current administration, Barack and the Democrats in Congress, will kill all drilling for more oil. Guaranteed.
So yes, the people will have more money in their pockets but will just have to pay it back out and more in higher energy costs which translates to higher food costs as everything gets transported everywhere.

Why do people think there is a gold mine out there just waiting to be tapped so we can all run jsut swim in our wealth ? It's not there--we are broke folks !

 

[Shogun]

Which society ? The term is becoming meaningless in America. It's global all the way now, baby. I hope we get assigned to a cool global function other than providing the rest of the world with entertainment.

the AMERICAN society. and, if it's becomming meaningless it's only because capitalists would rather pay slave wages in china than maintain the American standard of living here in the US where we are expected to consume. Trust me, American workers are not trying to hear about how global economies are more important than their diminished standard of living. Im pretty sure yesterday proved that.


And, for real, what global function can you fathom for America when ghetto kids from India and China and Mexico can do it cheaper than our American, non-ghetto standard of living will allow?

 

[dilloduck]

the AMERICAN society. and, if it's becomming meaningless it's only because capitalists would rather pay slave wages in china than maintain the American standard of living here in the US where we are expected to consume. Trust me, American workers are not trying to hear about how global economies are more important than their diminished standard of living. Im pretty sure yesterday proved that.


And, for real, what global function can you fathom for America when ghetto kids from India and China and Mexico can do it cheaper than our American, non-ghetto standard of living will allow?

Define American society. Yesterday proved nothing other than America was tired of white men calling the shots. Liberals are awesome at trying to tear things down. What are they going to build up ?

 

[Shogun]

Free markets haven't used the consumer, in fact it's the other way around. Consumers use the free market and they vote with their wallets. Wal-Mart is where it is because the people have voted with their wallets. They have chosen.
If you favor heavy tariffs then you favor raising prices on the very people who can afford it least. Companies aren't just going to eat the tariffs as a cost of business, they're gonna pass it on to the consumer via higher prices.
That's gonna be especially bad for the lower classes in the coming years as gas prices will rise and stay there because the current administration, Barack and the Democrats in Congress, will kill all drilling for more oil. Guaranteed.
So yes, the people will have more money in their pockets but will just have to pay it back out and more in higher energy costs which translates to higher food costs as everything gets transported everywhere.

No, the consumer really can't use their wallets when their options have been narrowed and their budgets have been carved up. See Wal Mart versus mom and pop stores if you want to see that trend. THEY have not chosen if the only options presented are the ones that perpetuate a degrading cycle any more than a homeless man CHOOSES a soup line for thanksgiving dinner. Indeed, prices may raise but those very same people will actually have income to afford them given the agenda of retaining jobs rather than selling out america's workforce to the cheapest third world country. Business that want to pass on tarrifs can get taxed like a motherfucker for being ALLOWED access to the American economy. You think you can sell your goods to another consumer nation then go for it. Not only would Tarrifs normalize the clusterfuck of capitalism but it would provide a tax base that could alleviate taxes (income) on Americans. win win win situation really.

And, you probably shouldnt speak for the lower classes who've been told that their labor is worth next to nothing by capitalists since protectionism would preserve the very work opportunities you'd rather jettison to china than pay a living wage in the US.

Killing the big oil drill would prompt industry in areas that have not been old money strongholds for the last century. Indeed, a wide range of business will spring from the carcass of petrolium.

Face it. Your strategy failed us. If it hadn't then you wouldn't be faced with reality like it is today.

 

[Mad Scientist]

No, the consumer really can't use their wallets when their options have been narrowed and their budgets have been carved up. See Wal Mart versus mom and pop stores if you want to see that trend. THEY have not chosen if the only options presented are the ones that perpetuate a degrading cycle any more than a homeless man CHOOSES a soup line for thanksgiving dinner.

Of course people choose. Wal-Mart has the lowest prices on what they need so they go there. That's why Mom and Pops die off. Blame Mom and Pop for not providing a service at a price that the average person want's.
But under your plan people would be forced to spend more money at the Mom and Pop store. Gee thanks.

Indeed, prices may raise but those very same people will actually have income to afford them given the agenda of retaining jobs rather than selling out america's workforce to the cheapest third world country. Business that want to pass on tarrifs can get taxed like a motherfucker for being ALLOWED access to the American economy. You think you can sell your goods to another consumer nation then go for it. Not only would Tarrifs normalize the clusterfuck of capitalism but it would provide a tax base that could alleviate taxes (income) on Americans. win win win situation really.

How do you figure it's a win/win?
Tariff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If a country's major industries lose to foreign competition, the loss of jobs and tax revenue can severely impair parts of that country's economy. Protective tariffs have been used as a measure against this possibility. However, protective tariffs have disadvantages as well. The most notable is that they increase the price of the good subject to the tariff, disadvantaging consumers of that good or manufacturers who use that good to produce something else: for example a tariff on food can increase poverty, while a tariff on steel can make automobile manufacture less competitive. They can also backfire if countries whose trade is disadvantaged by the tariff impose tariffs of their own, resulting in a trade war and, according to free trade theorists, disadvantaging both sides.

And, you probably shouldnt speak for the lower classes who've been told that their labor is worth next to nothing by capitalists since protectionism would preserve the very work opportunities you'd rather jettison to china than pay a living wage in the US.

I don't have to be poor, or a community organizer, to comment on the poor and their situation. You may think jobs go overseas only because of "greedy capitalists" but in fact, jobs get shipped overseas for a variety of reasons.
Did you know that a company must sell a product for a price that allows the company to remain in business? You ever take economics in school? I seem to recall that when the labor costs of any business reach somewhere around 50%, that business is in danger. The airline I worked for spent around 27% on labor. Anyway, they have to do some thing to lower the cost of production. They can't just keep raising prices because at some point, thanks to freedom of choice which you seem to be against, a consumer can buy from a different manufacturer or choose not buy at all. A lost sale.
Some cities and states are business friendly and do all they can to attract business to their areas. One way is through lowering taxes. Companies are privately owned you know, they can and do go where they want and need to to both stay competitive and profitable. Yes, a company has to make a profit to stay in business. Profit is not a dirty word.
And if a business can't find a place in America that is business friendly enough then they do have the option to move out of the country. Just recently Hershey Chocolate moved a major part of their operation to Mexico from Pennsylvania.
What do you think the effect will be if Obama and the Democrats start raising taxes? Yeah that's right, more job losses with a deepening recession.

Killing the big oil drill would prompt industry in areas that have not been old money strongholds for the last century. Indeed, a wide range of business will spring from the carcass of petrolium.

If you're talking about Nuclear Energy then yes I agree. But Wind? My wife and I used to live in Palm Springs which has a massive wind farm just to the West. Wanna' guess what our electric bill was? Three times what it is here in Pennsylvania. Wanna' know what they did with the electricity that was generated? It went to "The Grid" and was sold to consumers out of state! To Texas no less. The joke was that the only people who benefited from wind power were the companies that makes the windmills! What a scam huh? (Google Gray Davis/Recall/SoCal Edison if you want to know more)

Face it. Your strategy failed us. If it hadn't then you wouldn't be faced with reality like it is today.

Capitalism and free markets aren't a "strategy". They're a system for creating wealth and prosperity for millions of people. Illegal aliens die trying to get into the US every day because the country they're coming from sucks ass in comparison. And it sounds to me like that's what you want for us, third world, suck ass status.
The current problem happened because your Democrat pals Bawney Fwank, Chris Dodd and Franklin Raines as well as a few others fucked with it.

 

[Shogun]

you can talk about economics as if humans just started trading with each other the day a capitalist rationalized dirt cheap labor but that, again, doesn't shake the failure of your economic pipe dream. Welcome to the machine, dude. You, and your economic dream, lost.

 

[xsited1]

Increasing corporate taxes?

Decreasing corporate Taxes?

That's a no-brainer. Just look at Ireland. They decreased corporate taxes and got massive foreign investment and jobs. You increase taxes and the economy slows down and corporations send jobs overseas.

 

[Bern80]

you can talk about economics as if humans just started trading with each other the day a capitalist rationalized dirt cheap labor but that, again, doesn't shake the failure of your economic pipe dream. Welcome to the machine, dude. You, and your economic dream, lost.

You're solution is not a win/win. It is a lose/lose, You're goal is to essentially keep consumption and production within American borders. The policies neede to do that; tariffs, trade laws, etc. Will inflate the cost of goods and services.

The only thing you get credit for is essentially noting this is all about money. And believe it or not you can have your cake and eat it too. that isn't giong to happen under your plan unfortuantely. It's basic math. Your isolationism will simply inflate the costs of goods services because they won't have to compete on price anymore. It also has the likelyhood of decreaseing quality, since superior technology, not just cheap labor, also exists overseas. Also, in a country founded on the concept of the freedom to choose I doubt many are gonna be real happy have said choices limited by your polcies.

Compounding this problem will be Obama's tax raises on big business. Businesses in the best postions to hire large numbers of people. Again it's basic math. If these companies have less money to work with, how do you suppose they are going to be in a position to hire more workers?

 

[Bern80]

Increasing corporate taxes?

Decreasing corporate Taxes?

The answer is fairly undisputable. Pretty hard for companies to hire people if they have less money.

 

[Dr Grump]

De Liberals are awesome at trying to tear things down.

I know what you mean. Giving blacks and women equal rights for a start....bad liberals!

 

[dilloduck]

I know what you mean. Giving n*****s and women equal rights for a start....bad liberals!

I don't think liberals are particularly bad---just ignorant and do things like misquote people. I bet they don't like it when it's done to them.

 

[Zoomie1980]

Increasing corporate taxes?

Decreasing corporate Taxes?

Banks lending and people spending creates jobs.....nothing else.

 

[Shogun]

You're solution is not a win/win. It is a lose/lose, You're goal is to essentially keep consumption and production within American borders. The policies neede to do that; tariffs, trade laws, etc. Will inflate the cost of goods and services.

The only thing you get credit for is essentially noting this is all about money. And believe it or not you can have your cake and eat it too. that isn't giong to happen under your plan unfortuantely. It's basic math. Your isolationism will simply inflate the costs of goods services because they won't have to compete on price anymore. It also has the likelyhood of decreaseing quality, since superior technology, not just cheap labor, also exists overseas. Also, in a country founded on the concept of the freedom to choose I doubt many are gonna be real happy have said choices limited by your polcies.

Compounding this problem will be Obama's tax raises on big business. Businesses in the best postions to hire large numbers of people. Again it's basic math. If these companies have less money to work with, how do you suppose they are going to be in a position to hire more workers?

When WE are the worlds most dedicated consumers of goods and services (largely BECAUSE of that American sol that you'd sell out) you are goddamn right im for keeping production and consumption inside our borders. Inflated cost of goods to the level which they were at PRE-selling out our fucking production to china wn't kill commerce because Americans will have jobs that pay more than your "competitive" average chinese ghetto weekly wage.

First, your usual M.O. forgets that Americans will still have to compete with each other ala ford and chevy. Just because we restrict Toyota doesn't mean that American companies will have no competition. However, they would have competition that facilitates that American standard of living you seem to want to trade in for a nice begging spot in India. Indeed, nothing says "decreased quality" like a fucking American product made 40 fucking years ago. Indeed, we can look at Autos made in the 50s and DAMN were they shittier than the plastic molded dash of the latest toyota!

Freedom to choose does not mean the freedom to sink out society just because you want to cry that the sky is falling every time we have to react to the failure of free market capitalism. Find where the Constitution protects your right to buy cheap foreign shit.

You wanna talk about basic math? Go take a gander at election numbers, buddy. You've been having your way for quite some time and, shocker, look where were at now that a populist, PROTECTIONIST message buys more votes than the same ole bullshit rhetoric that caused even the god of free market capitalism, greenspan, to admit that shit just wasn't heading the direction he thought it would. You think fucking Ohio and each of the red turned blue states just decided to hop on board because of a historic election? Fuck no. They hopped on because THEY see the failure of your argument and want their fucking American standard of living jobs back.

 

[Shogun]

The answer is fairly undisputable. Pretty hard for companies to hire people if they have less money.

well gosh bern.. I mean they could always allocate LESS money to that CEO jackpot and MORE money to labor, eh? You can't make excuses for companies whose business model extends only to the point of funneling money to your beloved top 2%.