If you're talking about your reply in post #65, I would say that's circular reasoning. Before I go any further, I want to say that I don't see this whole topic (ICE) as a left-right issue. I'm saying that because I don't want to get the usual knee-jerk, binary-minded replies from those who seem unable to think outside that box. Now that that's out of the way....
Of course I agree with you that assaulting an ICE agent or true obstruction of LE is wrong, but I think this whole thing is much more nuanced than you and others are making it out to be. In the last year or so, I've been hearing numerous reports of ICE harassing American citizens, and numerous reports of ICE overreach including excessive force, wrongful detentions of US citizens and other lawless, aggressive tactics. So obviously Gestapo type behavior is eventually and inevitably going to bring about a response from people. People are going to protest. When you have masked men "kidnapping" people who were American citizens, and also
impersonators posing as ICE....exploiting all this madness to commit crimes like robbery, sexual assault, etc, and also people who died while in custody....obviously all of that is going to create a lot of fear, distrust, anger, etc. How could it not?
So when I asked if they can stop and interrogate anyone, even when there's no reasonable suspicion that someone is an illegal....your reply seems to be yes they can do that because people have demonstrated bad behavior... Well, did it ever occur to you that maybe people are purposely being instigated? I'll get into that a bit more later. For now, your implication that the behavior came out of nowhere for no reason is false, in my view. I don't know about you or Broke Loser....but most people don't want to live in an authoritarian police state, where
anyone (even those of us who have a clean record and don't look like an illegal) can be manhandled, detained and treated like a criminal by some masked, trigger-happy jackbooted thug.
2) She wasn't being detained for being a US citizen. She was being detained for wilfully obstructing ICE.
I already went over this one with BL, in post #79. So you can read my reply to him, I don't think I need to go through it again.
3) No. But they are being assisted by law enforcement to look out for people seen as dangerous. There's plenty you don't see going on behind the scenes.
I get that. But I don't see it in a strictly one-sided way like you seem to. Frankly, I think some of those masked ICE thugs are dangerous and seem poorly trained. I don't want to get off topic here, but in regard to the bigger picture... I really believe that all of this is part of a long-term plan by the ptsb to purposely create civil unrest, chaos, violence, etc. Why? It's an age-old tactic called
Order out of Chaos. Used by corrupt powers. They create the chaos as an excuse to bring about "order." And that "order" is increasing authoritarianism, martial law, and eventually their entirely new system for the world. I think that's what is happening in our country right now.
There is no Nazi style "papers please" going on here. You're being drawn in by sensationalist claims comparing what ICE is doing to what Nazi Germany was doing to the Jews at the height of their reign of terror.
I couldn't disagree more. It is happening, and like I said before, if we accept it... or worse, cheer it on... it's definitely going to get worse. Much worse. You don't believe that because you trust the government and you scoff at what you consider "conspiracy theory"... I don't think it's conspiracy theory at all. It's not even debatable that there are powerful people with agendas that are subversive, unAmerican and authoritarian. But that's a topic for a thread of it's own.
.... but why was a US citizen being detained in the first place? Is ICE now stopping and questioning anyone, even when there doesn't seem to be reasonable suspicion that they're illegal? Because if that's the case, any one of us could be targeted and detained by masked jackbooted thugs....who appear to me to be very trigger happy. Is a "Paperz Pleaze!" encroaching police state really what you all want? And I have no doubt at all that it will only get worse. If we accept it....and even cheer for it.
