What the Palestinian Authority Thinks Concerning a Palestinians State in the WB

[P F Tinmore]

Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country? The whole point of the partition plan was to GIVE the Palestinian Arabs a country !!
My goodness, what's the point of debating with you if you're going to lie so compulsively.

Rocco wins, you lose . Get over it already. Swallow your pride

As far as not having the authority to cede Palestinians land, that was not necessary in order for Israel to create it's state in the land proposed in the partition plan. Unless you have a LINK FOR THAT

Your response to him regarding Jerusalem has nothing to do with his comment, and is a lie as well. You provided no link.

Finally, your last comment regarding the cleansing of 300 000 Palestinians from their homes before the Arab invasion appears to be another lie as well. Link please ?


So , Tinmore. You need to provide three links to prove your statements

]Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country?

If Palestine was not the Palestinians country the whose was it?

Link please.

 

[toastman]

Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country? The whole point of the partition plan was to GIVE the Palestinian Arabs a country !!
My goodness, what's the point of debating with you if you're going to lie so compulsively.

Rocco wins, you lose . Get over it already. Swallow your pride

As far as not having the authority to cede Palestinians land, that was not necessary in order for Israel to create it's state in the land proposed in the partition plan. Unless you have a LINK FOR THAT

Your response to him regarding Jerusalem has nothing to do with his comment, and is a lie as well. You provided no link.

Finally, your last comment regarding the cleansing of 300 000 Palestinians from their homes before the Arab invasion appears to be another lie as well. Link please ?


So , Tinmore. You need to provide three links to prove your statements

]Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country?

If Palestine was not the Palestinians country the whose was it?

Link please.

During the time that it was under British Control, it was 'Mandatory Palestine' and it was a region, not a country.

Mandatory Palestine was between 1920-1948, until the British left. Before 1920, it was Ottoman control. It was never the country that belonged to the Palestinians. They owned land and lived there, and had rights, but it was not a country ! You keep making the same comment that the Jews stole half their country, or the British gave away half their 'country' !
Just stop it already !!

I want to know why it's sop hard for you to comprehend that during the period we are discussing, that 'Palestine' was a geographical region. REGION. REGION . REGION !

 

[toastman]

Show me anywhere where it says that between 1920-1948, that 'Palestine' was the 'country' that belonged to the Palestinians

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, this is claim the Palestinians often make. Palestine was not an independent country until 1988. Between 1920 and 1948, it was entrusted to the Allied Powers, shifting to the successor organization of the UN and Security Council.

Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country? The whole point of the partition plan was to GIVE the Palestinian Arabs a country !!
My goodness, what's the point of debating with you if you're going to lie so compulsively.

Rocco wins, you lose . Get over it already. Swallow your pride

As far as not having the authority to cede Palestinians land, that was not necessary in order for Israel to create it's state in the land proposed in the partition plan. Unless you have a LINK FOR THAT

Your response to him regarding Jerusalem has nothing to do with his comment, and is a lie as well. You provided no link.

Finally, your last comment regarding the cleansing of 300 000 Palestinians from their homes before the Arab invasion appears to be another lie as well. Link please ?

So , Tinmore. You need to provide three links to prove your statements

]Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country?

If Palestine was not the Palestinians country the whose was it?

Link please.

(COMMENT)

Under the terms of the Treaty, it was undefined territory relinquished and entrusted to the Allied Powers; not the indigenous population.

ARTICLE 95.

The High Contracting Parties agree to entrust, by application of the provisions of Article 22, the administration of Palestine, within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers, to a Mandatory to be selected by the said Powers. The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

SOURCE: Part III, Section VII of the Treaty, Articles 94 thru 97.

Palestine was not a territory remanded to the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine (the indigenous Arab population); nor was it an Article 22 territory adjudicated as "able to stand alone." In fact, the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine had no say in the establishment of the boundaries to be called Palestine. For the last century, the term Palestine, and the associated territory, was defined solely by the Ottoman Empire or the Allied Powers; and not the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine - able to stand alone.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country? The whole point of the partition plan was to GIVE the Palestinian Arabs a country !!
My goodness, what's the point of debating with you if you're going to lie so compulsively.

Rocco wins, you lose . Get over it already. Swallow your pride

As far as not having the authority to cede Palestinians land, that was not necessary in order for Israel to create it's state in the land proposed in the partition plan. Unless you have a LINK FOR THAT

Your response to him regarding Jerusalem has nothing to do with his comment, and is a lie as well. You provided no link.

Finally, your last comment regarding the cleansing of 300 000 Palestinians from their homes before the Arab invasion appears to be another lie as well. Link please ?


So , Tinmore. You need to provide three links to prove your statements

]Giving half their country to foreigners ?? How can they do that when they didn't have a country?

If Palestine was not the Palestinians country the whose was it?

Link please.

During the time that it was under British Control, it was 'Mandatory Palestine' and it was a region, not a country.

Mandatory Palestine was between 1920-1948, until the British left. Before 1920, it was Ottoman control. It was never the country that belonged to the Palestinians. They owned land and lived there, and had rights, but it was not a country ! You keep making the same comment that the Jews stole half their country, or the British gave away half their 'country' !
Just stop it already !!

I want to know why it's sop hard for you to comprehend that during the period we are discussing, that 'Palestine' was a geographical region. REGION. REGION . REGION !

If Palestine belonged to the British, why didn't they Just give it to Israel? Why was there a need to do the resolution 181 schtick?

Why did the British refuse to implement resolution 181 without the Palestinian's approval?

Why did the Security Council not implement resolution 181 for the same reason?

Why does the status of Palestinian land require the approval of the Palestinians in the current peace talks?

To say that Palestine does not belong to the Palestinians flies in the face of common sense and indisputable facts.

BTW, a region is an undefined territory. Palestine has had defined international borders since 1922.

 

[P F Tinmore]

More smoke, Rocco?

In fact, the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine had no say in the establishment of the boundaries to be called Palestine.

Nor did the Jewish community. Nor did any of the people in the other countries created in the post war era.

What is your point?

 

[toastman]

If Palestine was not the Palestinians country the whose was it?

Link please.

During the time that it was under British Control, it was 'Mandatory Palestine' and it was a region, not a country.

Mandatory Palestine was between 1920-1948, until the British left. Before 1920, it was Ottoman control. It was never the country that belonged to the Palestinians. They owned land and lived there, and had rights, but it was not a country ! You keep making the same comment that the Jews stole half their country, or the British gave away half their 'country' !
Just stop it already !!

I want to know why it's sop hard for you to comprehend that during the period we are discussing, that 'Palestine' was a geographical region. REGION. REGION . REGION !

If Palestine belonged to the British, why didn't they Just give it to Israel? Why was there a need to do the resolution 181 schtick?

Why did the British refuse to implement resolution 181 without the Palestinian's approval?

Why did the Security Council not implement resolution 181 for the same reason?

Why does the status of Palestinian land require the approval of the Palestinians in the current peace talks?

To say that Palestine does not belong to the Palestinians flies in the face of common sense and indisputable facts.

BTW, a region is an undefined territory. Palestine has had defined international borders since 1922.

The bold are questions you need to ask the British. And before you ask any questions, you have ignored several of mine.

 

[toastman]

More smoke, Rocco?

In fact, the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine had no say in the establishment of the boundaries to be called Palestine.

Nor did the Jewish community. Nor did any of the people in the other countries created in the post war era.

What is your point?

Excuse me !??!! YOU, out of all people accusing someone of blowing smoke ??

Please now Tinmore !! Just stop it please .....

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Smoke!

More smoke, Rocco?

In fact, the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine had no say in the establishment of the boundaries to be called Palestine.

Nor did the Jewish community. Nor did any of the people in the other countries created in the post war era.

What is your point?

(COMMENT)

What the Arab-Palestinian claim as "they country" was an invention of the Mandatory and the Allied Powers.

v/r
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Smoke!

More smoke, Rocco?

In fact, the existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine had no say in the establishment of the boundaries to be called Palestine.

Nor did the Jewish community. Nor did any of the people in the other countries created in the post war era.

What is your point?

(COMMENT)

What the Arab-Palestinian claim as "they country" was an invention of the Mandatory and the Allied Powers.

v/r
R

As was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan....

What is your point?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Think about the phrase: "able to stand alone."

If Palestine was not the Palestinians country the whose was it?

Link please.

During the time that it was under British Control, it was 'Mandatory Palestine' and it was a region, not a country.

Mandatory Palestine was between 1920-1948, until the British left. Before 1920, it was Ottoman control. It was never the country that belonged to the Palestinians. They owned land and lived there, and had rights, but it was not a country ! You keep making the same comment that the Jews stole half their country, or the British gave away half their 'country' !
Just stop it already !!

I want to know why it's sop hard for you to comprehend that during the period we are discussing, that 'Palestine' was a geographical region. REGION. REGION . REGION !

If Palestine belonged to the British, why didn't they Just give it to Israel? Why was there a need to do the resolution 181 schtick?

(COMMENT)

Again, you are twisting the words. No one said it belonged to the British. It was said that it was entrusted to the British on behalf of the Allied Powers; which took possession in accordance with the Treaty.

Why did the British refuse to implement resolution 181 without the Palestinian's approval?

(COMMENT)

This was asked and answered before. The Mandatory Power did not want to get entangled in another war. It was their belief that the terms of the Resolution could not be effectively implemented without the use of force.

Why did the Security Council not implement resolution 181 for the same reason?

(COMMENT)

Who said it was not implemented? Now you are just making stuff up. Two-thirds of the Resolution has been implemented. The first third in 1948 with the Independence of Israel. The second third in 1988 with the Independence of Palestine.

The Security Council did implement parts of the Resolution, the Part that the Jewish Agency agreed to, and the establishment of the Jewish State. The portion of the Plan that referred to the establishment of the Arab State was not agreed to and therefore not implemented. The portion of the Plan that referred to the Internationalization of Jerusalem was not implemented because it was interrupted by the foreign Arab Invasions.

Why does the status of Palestinian land require the approval of the Palestinians in the current peace talks?

(COMMENT)

Because in 1988 (A/43/827 S/20278 18 November 1988 - ANNEX III), the PLO, using "General Assembly Resolution 181 (II) of 1947, which partitioned Palestine into an Arab and a Jewish State, that resolution nevertheless continues to attach conditions to international legitimacy that guarantee the Palestinian Arab people the right to sovereignty and national independence." Even the Palestinians use the Resolution when it is to there advantage. With the Declaration of Independence of 1988, the second third of the Resolution was then implemented by the Palestinians themselves.

To say that Palestine does not belong to the Palestinians flies in the face of common sense and indisputable facts.

(COMMENT)

You keep moving the timeline. Today (beginning in 1988), after two-thirds of the Resolution having been implemented, as modified by the outcome of wars and conflict, there is a State of Palestine. It remains to be seen if it is really an Article 22 type State that is able to stand alone on its own. (So far --- not so much.)

BTW, a region is an undefined territory. Palestine has had defined international borders since 1922.

(COMMENT)

The Treaty of Sevres was consummated in 1920, and the region of Palestine (within such boundaries as may be determined by the Principal Allied Powers) was left to the administration of the Mandatory.

In 1922, Palestine, under the Mandate, included Trans-Jordan. And that remained true even through the autonomy agreements. You cannot use the entire Mandate boundaries for specified Article 25 reasons. What was defined in 1922 was for Mandate purposes. By that time, two-thirds of that Mandate Territory was already earmarked and partitioned-off to establish an Arab Kingdom.

M. CATASTINI recalled that the Treaty (Treaty between Great Britain and the Amir of Trans-Jordan) had been forwarded at the same time as the annual report of the mandatory Power for 1927, and that the Permanent Mandates Commission, during its thirteenth session, had made some criticisms regarding the Treaty which it had inserted in its report to the Council. When the matter had come before the Council, Lord Cushendun had made a declaration in answer to the anxiety expressed by the Permanent Mandates Commission.

M. ORTS quoted the end of the declaration of Lord Cushendun:

"There should be no doubt at all in the minds of the members of the Council that my Government regards itself as responsible to the Council for the proper application in Trans-Jordan of all the provisions of the Palestine mandate, except those which have been excluded under Article 25."​

SOURCE: Palestine and Trans-Jordan: Agreement between Great Britain and the Amir of Trans-Jordan : Attitude of the Commission.

The boundaries in 1922 were "Mandate Boundaries;" not true international boundaries (meaning borders between nations).

• Lebanon did not come into existence until 1 September, 1926, when Vichy High Commissioner for Syria and Lebanon formed the Lebanese Republic. The Republic was afterward a separate entity from Syria but still administered under the French Mandate of Syria. Lebanon gained independence in 1943, while Vichy France was occupied by Germany.
  
• France administered Syria until its independence in 1946.
  
• Jordan became independence on 25 May 1946 from League of Nations mandate under British administration.

There were no independent nations bordering the territorial Mandate of Palestine in 1922. Thus, no international borders.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Do you think for even a moment, that the other Arab Nations in the immediate region were going to let the Arab-Palestinian govern Palestine, even if it defeated the Israelis? Not a chance in hell.

--- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... --- ... ---​

(OBSERVATIONs)

Remember that the Arab Higher Committee, under Amin al-Husayni (the one-time former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and President of the Supreme Muslim Council) had been dissolved and reconstituted by the Arab League in 1945. The very same Arab Higher Committee, as a puppet of the Arab League, was the body that began broadcasting radio instructions to Arabs in late 1947 to start to evacuate cities and villages; implying that any Arab which accepted the protection of the IDF would be regarded as "collaborators and traitors.”

“Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return”
SOURCE: (The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, Beirut, 1973, Part 1, pp. 386-387).

ON APRIL 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee (AHC), told the UN Security Council: “The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce … They preferred to abandon their homes, belongings and everything they possessed.”

then the official journal of the Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO spokesman, wrote: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live."

The reconstituted puppet Arab Higher Committee is the voice that rejected the offer under General Assembly Resolution 181(II); in the name of the Palestinians.

The reconstituted puppet Arab Higher Committee, in its best ventriloquist voice, issued the original Jihadist threats to the UN in the name of the Palestinian.

(DISCUSSION)

There is a full range of reasons that the adjacent Arab Kingdoms, Dictatorship and Juntas, would rather see another Arab Kingdom than a Palestine ruled potentially by Islamic extremists and Jihadist or dysfunctional Fedayeen.

• Even today, Lebanon's President Michel Suleiman is the former Commander of the Lebanese Armed Forces.
  
• Syria has a well known dictatorship.
  
• The HM the King of Jordan is a former Major General and Commander of the Jordanian Special Forces.
  
• Saudi Arabia is ruled by HM the King, a former Commander of the Saudi Arabian National Guard (Armed Forces) and former Deputy Minister of Defense.
  
• Even former Egyptian President President Hosni Mubarak, was a former Commander of the Air Force, and today's de facto President is Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, former Chief of the General Staff and the Army.
  
• The Sultan of Oman, Qaboos bin Said Al Said, came to power after he orchestrated a Palace coup d'état against his father the Sultan. The Sultan is a graduate of the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst; with tours in the 1st Battalion The Scottish Rifles, and various staff appointments with the British Army.
  
• Some Muslim countries generally have violent changes in government on a cycled basis. Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, formerly President of the Turkey, was a Senior Army Officer and former Minister of War, before founding modern Turkey.
  • The 12 September 1980 Turkish coup d'état, headed by Chief of the General Staff General Kenan Evren
  • The 1971 Turkish coup d'état, carried out on 12 March that year, was the second to take place in the Republic of Turkey,
  • The coup of 27 May, 1960 was the first coup d'état in Turkey, staged by a group of Turkish military officers'

None of the adjacent regional country leaderships wants the destabilizing foundation of countries like Egypt or Turkey, which is the probable outcome of the Palestinians. Nor do they want a destabilized Palestine to fall prey to predatory radical Islamic influences like Iran. Thus, the most stable form is a Kingdom.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Mandatory Power did not want to get entangled in another war. It was their belief that the terms of the Resolution could not be effectively implemented without the use of force.

Why would it require foreign military force to impose something on the people?

Wouldn't that be an illegal external interference?

 

[toastman]

The ONLY illegal external interference was the Arab states who entered the region to attack the newly founded state.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The ONLY illegal external interference was the Arab states who entered the region to attack the newly founded state.

No they didn't.

 

[toastman]

Didn't what ????

 

[pbel]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Smoke!

More smoke, Rocco?



Nor did the Jewish community. Nor did any of the people in the other countries created in the post war era.

What is your point?

(COMMENT)

What the Arab-Palestinian claim as "they country" was an invention of the Mandatory and the Allied Powers.

v/r
R

As was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan....

What is your point?

Tinnie, I really admire your tenacity! These guys just don't get the Fact that the Palestinians were screwed out of their ancestral land by Western Colonial Fiat and they try to sweeten it with Bull Shit but no-one will take a bite.

And you and I never will...sure I'll settle for a peace if the Palestinians get Justice...

And the world even in AIPAC controlled America, is beginning to see the Palestinian side as the recent UN recognition with Western ally Approval and abstentions.

Keep 'em dancing!

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Smoke!


(COMMENT)

What the Arab-Palestinian claim as "they country" was an invention of the Mandatory and the Allied Powers.

v/r
R

As was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan....

What is your point?

Tinnie, I really admire your tenacity! These guys just don't get the Fact that the Palestinians were screwed out of their ancestral land by Western Colonial Fiat and they try to sweeten it with Bull Shit but no-one will take a bite.

And you and I never will...sure I'll settle for a peace if the Palestinians get Justice...

And the world even in AIPAC controlled America, is beginning to see the Palestinian side as the recent UN recognition with Western ally Approval and abstentions.

Keep 'em dancing!

Link ??

And they got screwed because they and their Arab friends opted for war. Instead of sharing the region with the Jews, they chose war and ended up with even lee then offered in the partition plan.

Sorry, no re-do's

 

[P F Tinmore]

Didn't what ????

None of the Arab forces attacked Israel. They fought Israeli troops in Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

As was Lebanon, Syria, Jordan....

What is your point?

Tinnie, I really admire your tenacity! These guys just don't get the Fact that the Palestinians were screwed out of their ancestral land by Western Colonial Fiat and they try to sweeten it with Bull Shit but no-one will take a bite.

And you and I never will...sure I'll settle for a peace if the Palestinians get Justice...

And the world even in AIPAC controlled America, is beginning to see the Palestinian side as the recent UN recognition with Western ally Approval and abstentions.

Keep 'em dancing!

Link ??

And they got screwed because they and their Arab friends opted for war. Instead of sharing the region with the Jews, they chose war and ended up with even lee then offered in the partition plan.

Sorry, no re-do's

They were already sharing their country with the native Jews.