What the Media Won't Tell You About Israel

[P F Tinmore]

My view is entirely consistent. I support the rights of ALL peoples to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory if that is their desire.

So you favor the Palestinian's right to return.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I also fully support the right of people to individually and collectively defend themselves from people who attack them.

Excluding the Palestinians right to defend themselves, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Arab Palestinians have the CHOICE to accept peace instead of murderous violence.

As long as they let Israel keep everything it has stolen.

 

[Hollie]

Lets face it sasha, you support israel because your a jew, not even looking at what is wrong with killing children who are not of your tribe

I support Israel because I support the rights of the indigenous Jewish people to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory. My view is entirely consistent. I support the rights of ALL peoples to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory if that is their desire. I support the rights of the Jewish peoples, the Kurdish peoples, the Catalans, the Basques, the First Nations peoples of the Americas and Australia, the Tibetans, the Western Saharans, the Kashmiris, the Scots, the Quebecois, the Palestinians. ALL peoples. All peoples.

It is YOU who hold an inconsistent world view because you refuse these rights of only ONE peoples -- the Jewish peoples.



I also fully support the right of people to individually and collectively defend themselves from people who attack them. This includes from children with knives. I hate that Jewish people and Israel are individually and collectively forced to defend themselves from people wishing to kill them (Still! Again!). It has nothing to do with tribes. It has to do with people (children) who are literally trying to kill us and who insist that they will not stop trying to kill us until Israel no longer exists and the Jewish people are back in their proper place as dhimmis.

All the Jewish people want is a safe place of their own in the world. And we will defend our right to that. Why wouldn't we? Why shouldn't we?

The Arab Palestinians have the CHOICE to accept peace instead of murderous violence. Not a single other person need die, let alone one of their children. But the Arab Palestinians are placing the destruction of the Jewish State above the lives of their children. They are placing the right to "resist" violently above the rights of their children to life. They are intentionally, deliberately sacrificing their children for the goal of the destruction of the Jewish State and the denial of the rights of the Jewish people.

With that choice comes the responsibility for the consequences of that choice. There are other choices.

The Zionists that colonized Israel were Europeans. They have no indigenous rights to Palestine. Resisting foreign occupation is something every people that have been victims of colonization and occupation have always done. The Israeli Jews do not want peace, they want continued control over the non-Jews in the whole of Palestine. If the Israeli Jews wanted peace they would have ended the occupation of the WB, East Jerusalem and legal occupation and blockade of Gaza.

The xtian Crusaders and the Romans who colonized your invented "country of Pal'istan" were Europeans. Not surprisingly, your arbitrary timeline regarding your nonsensensical "Zionist invasion" is merely an expression of your personal biases. People get it: you're just a hater who, lacking knowledge of the history surrounding the area, is forced to continually cut and paste the same tired slogans and clichés.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

 

[Shusha]

The Zionists that colonized Israel were Europeans. They have no indigenous rights to Palestine.

The Jewish people are ONE people. (Like the Palestinian people are ONE people -- whether they live in Gaza, the "West Bank", Israel, Syria, Jordan, the US or Chile.) There is absolutely no way to measure "authentic" Jews vs. "synthetic" Jews. How would you even define such a thing? What would you base it on? The very idea reeks of racism.

Is a man with an Egyptian father and a Palestinian mother Egyptian or Palestinian? Is he Palestinian enough to have indigenous rights? If his maternal grandparents moved from Egypt to Palestine in the 1930's -- is that enough to make his mother an indigenous "Palestinian" or is she still Egyptian? If he was born in "Palestine" is that enough to make him indigenously Palestinian, even if his parents were Lebanese or Egyptian or Jordanian or Syrian?

Seriously, what parameters are you going to collectively apply here?

We are discussing the collective rights of a people as a whole. The Jewish people, as a whole, collectively, originated in the territory under dispute. The Jewish people, as a whole, collectively, therefore have indigenous rights to that territory. (But not exclusive rights as Palestinians also have rights).

Resisting foreign occupation is something every people that have been victims of colonization and occupation have always done.

Sure. Its what the Jewish people are doing now.

If the Israeli Jews wanted peace they would have ended the occupation of the WB, East Jerusalem and legal occupation and blockade of Gaza.

Starting a new thread for this last.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

234B In Aid To Israel Violates US Law Against Supporting Secret Nuclear States
By Kit O'Connell

The lawsuit warns that the U.S. gave Israel about $234 billion in foreign aid since1976, despite a ban on support for secret nuclear weapons programs. - Continue

 

[Shusha]

My view is entirely consistent. I support the rights of ALL peoples to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory if that is their desire.

So you favor the Palestinian's right to return.

I do. Always have. (to Palestine, not to Israel).

Do you favor the Jewish people's right to return?

 

[Shusha]

I also fully support the right of people to individually and collectively defend themselves from people who attack them.

Excluding the Palestinians right to defend themselves, of course.

The Palestinians have a right to defend themselves. But no one is attacking the Palestinians.

 

[Shusha]

The Arab Palestinians have the CHOICE to accept peace instead of murderous violence.

As long as they let Israel keep everything it has stolen.

If you recognized the right of the Jewish people to their ancestral and historical homeland, you would realize they have stolen nothing, but only returned. You know, exactly the same as what you wish for the Arab "Palestinians". If you consider a forced ethnic cleansing and diaspora to negate one's rights then Palestinians outside the West Bank and Gaza have no rights. You can't have it both ways.

But even still, yes, its a choice. Which matters more to you? The lives of your children? Or killing a few Jews? Arab Palestinians have consistently chosen latter. Responsibility is yours.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Albert Einstein wrote in a letter to American Friends of the Fighters for the Freedom of Israel shortly after the 1948 Deir Yassin massacre and referred to the Irgun, led by Menachem Begin later a Prime Minister of Israel, and the Stern Gang, where Yitzhak Shamir also a future Prime Minister of Israel was a member, as terrorist organizations and refused to support these “misled and criminal people.”2

See “Einstein’s Letter about Deir Yassin Massacre,” If Americans Knew.

It is clear that Albert Einstein did not support political Zionism and opposed a Jewish State based on an ethnic or racial basis. His political views were remarkably consistent and supported universal human rights. He was opposed to war and chauvinistic ethnic nationalism.

 

[montelatici]

The Zionists that colonized Israel were Europeans. They have no indigenous rights to Palestine.

The Jewish people are ONE people. (Like the Palestinian people are ONE people -- whether they live in Gaza, the "West Bank", Israel, Syria, Jordan, the US or Chile.) There is absolutely no way to measure "authentic" Jews vs. "synthetic" Jews. How would you even define such a thing? What would you base it on? The very idea reeks of racism.

Is a man with an Egyptian father and a Palestinian mother Egyptian or Palestinian? Is he Palestinian enough to have indigenous rights? If his maternal grandparents moved from Egypt to Palestine in the 1930's -- is that enough to make his mother an indigenous "Palestinian" or is she still Egyptian? If he was born in "Palestine" is that enough to make him indigenously Palestinian, even if his parents were Lebanese or Egyptian or Jordanian or Syrian?

Seriously, what parameters are you going to collectively apply here?

We are discussing the collective rights of a people as a whole. The Jewish people, as a whole, collectively, originated in the territory under dispute. The Jewish people, as a whole, collectively, therefore have indigenous rights to that territory. (But not exclusive rights as Palestinians also have rights).

Resisting foreign occupation is something every people that have been victims of colonization and occupation have always done.

Sure. Its what the Jewish people are doing now.

If the Israeli Jews wanted peace they would have ended the occupation of the WB, East Jerusalem and legal occupation and blockade of Gaza.

Starting a new thread for this last.

Practicing a particular religion does make a people. If the French converted en masse to Judaism it would not change who they or the descendants will be. They will not miraculously become indigenous to Palestine. The European Zionists were Poles, Russians, French and of other nationalities that practiced Judaism. No different than a Huguenot, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic or athiest, etc. national of those countries.

The Zionists/Jewish Israelis are not resisting occupation, they are continuing to oppress and colonize, who do you think you are trying to fool. LOL

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

............an Israeli military jeep carrying a driver named Meshulam Makover and four assassins was dispatched to Palmeh Street in the Jerusalem neighborhood of Old Katamon. At 5:03 p.m., the UN convoy drove up and found the jeep blocking its path. The terrorists, wearing khaki shorts and peaked caps, left their jeep, found Bernadotte in the second car of the convoy and one man, later discovered to be Yehoshua Cohen, fired a Schmeisser automatic pistol into the car, spraying the interior with bullets and killing Seraut and then Bernadotte. The other LEHI members shot the tires of the rest of the convoy and all the terrorists escaped to the religious community of Sha’arei Pina where they hid with haredi (ultra-religious) LEHI sympathizers for a few days before fleeing to Tel Aviv in the back of a furniture truck.

The Assassination of Count Bernadotte - Jewish Virtual Library

The Killing of Count Folke Bernadotte

The Stern Gang considered Bernadotte an enemy, an “agent of the British”. They concocted a story that he had aided the Nazis in World War II. They ambushed Bernadotte’s motorcade in downtown Jerusalem killing him and UN observer Colonel André Serot.

Two of the planners of the killing were arrested by Ben-Gurion’s government, not charged with murder, but with “terrorism”. They were pardoned a few months later and one of them took his place as an elected member of the Knesset.

The names of the conspirators are forgotten today except one, Yitzhak Shamir. Shamir joined up with the Fighters for the Freedom of Israel when they were in their pro-Nazi phase, and reportedly directed the assassination of the Churchill’s Minister Resident of the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in 1944. He’s a bit fuzzy about whether he took part in the plot against Bernadotte. He says a local group came up with the idea and he “offered no resistance”. A critical decision and he didn’t really take part. You betcha.

 

[P F Tinmore]

My view is entirely consistent. I support the rights of ALL peoples to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory if that is their desire.

So you favor the Palestinian's right to return.

I do. Always have. (to Palestine, not to Israel).

Do you favor the Jewish people's right to return?

But Israel is in Palestine. Their homes are on land stolen by Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Practicing a particular religion does make a people. If the French converted en masse to Judaism it would not change who they or the descendants will be. They will not miraculously become indigenous to Palestine. The European Zionists were Poles, Russians, French and of other nationalities that practiced Judaism. No different than a Huguenot, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic or athiest, etc. national of those countries.

The Zionists/Jewish Israelis are not resisting occupation, they are continuing to oppress and colonize, who do you think you are trying to fool. LOL

The Jewish people are not oppressing or colonizing -- they are resisting occupation by a foreign entity into their indigenous lands. Further, they are fighting against the erasure of existence by those who reject the idea that they are a people.

 

[Shusha]

My view is entirely consistent. I support the rights of ALL peoples to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory if that is their desire.

So you favor the Palestinian's right to return.

I do. Always have. (to Palestine, not to Israel).

Do you favor the Jewish people's right to return?

But Israel is in Palestine. Their homes are on land stolen by Israel.

On the contrary, the geographical territory called "Palestine" is within the historic, ancestral, indigenous Jewish territories, aka Israel.

Do you support the right of the Jewish people to return to their ancestral and historical homeland? Its a yes or no question.

 

[montelatici]

Practicing a particular religion does make a people. If the French converted en masse to Judaism it would not change who they or the descendants will be. They will not miraculously become indigenous to Palestine. The European Zionists were Poles, Russians, French and of other nationalities that practiced Judaism. No different than a Huguenot, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic or athiest, etc. national of those countries.

The Zionists/Jewish Israelis are not resisting occupation, they are continuing to oppress and colonize, who do you think you are trying to fool. LOL

The Jewish people are not oppressing or colonizing -- they are resisting occupation by a foreign entity into their indigenous lands. Further, they are fighting against the erasure of existence by those who reject the idea that they are a people.

The colonists, who happen to practice a particular religion, from Europe and elsewhere, are not indigenous to Palestine. The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine. That their ancestors converted en-masse to Christianity after 380 AD and then later most to Islam, does not change their origin.

 

[Shusha]

My view is entirely consistent. I support the rights of ALL peoples to a national homeland in their ancestral and historical territory if that is their desire.

So you favor the Palestinian's right to return.

I do. Always have. (to Palestine, not to Israel).

Do you favor the Jewish people's right to return?

But Israel is in Palestine. Their homes are on land stolen by Israel.

On a more practical note, with respect to the return of BOTH peoples to their ancestral territories, there is a choice between ethnic homogeneity or ethnic multiculturalism. Which would you prefer?

Ethnic homogeneity, imo, is the only solution which permits both peoples self-determination. I don't believe it is possible, at this point in time, for the two groups to have a balanced, equal, fair, mutually respectful co-existence. Thus I think ethnic multiculturalism is unrealistic.

 

[Hollie]

Practicing a particular religion does make a people. If the French converted en masse to Judaism it would not change who they or the descendants will be. They will not miraculously become indigenous to Palestine. The European Zionists were Poles, Russians, French and of other nationalities that practiced Judaism. No different than a Huguenot, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic or athiest, etc. national of those countries.

The Zionists/Jewish Israelis are not resisting occupation, they are continuing to oppress and colonize, who do you think you are trying to fool. LOL

The Jewish people are not oppressing or colonizing -- they are resisting occupation by a foreign entity into their indigenous lands. Further, they are fighting against the erasure of existence by those who reject the idea that they are a people.

The colonists, who happen to practice a particular religion, from Europe and elsewhere, are not indigenous to Palestine. The Muslim and Christian Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine. That their ancestors converted en-masse to Christianity after 380 AD and then later most to Islam, does not change their origin.

How are the the Moslem and xtian invaders indigenous to Pal'istan?

Both the invading Turks and the European Crusader xtians were obviously not indigenous to the area.