What role does Affirmative Action play in the events playing out in Ferguson?

[Oldstyle]

I'll let you in on a little secret, Joe...a GOOD employee is so hard to find that when you do get one you treat them like gold because they're such an asset to your company! I wouldn't EVER mistreat a good employee and I would fire any manager that worked for me who did.

 

[JoeB131]

[

On the contrary, Joe...the successful people I've known through the years are anything BUT "dull". You have to have a spark to get up and work a 20 hour day with one challenge after another getting thrown your way day after day. You have to have character when you don't get to punch a clock and go home for the weekend because you're the boss and people are counting on you to fix what's wrong so THEY can continue to get a pay check!

Guy, any manager or rich person who is working a 20 hour day is just incapable of delegating or trusting. these people usually make horrible bosses.

"Wow, I'm glad my boss was there being brilliant". Said in a working class bar, never.

[
So what you're basically complaining about is that you held a job where some kind of menial labor was required and you were no longer able to perform the tasks that you needed to do? Intelligent people recognize that they are only going to be able to do certain types of work for so long, Joe! It's why one goes to college and learns skills that require the use of your brain and not your knees or back or get's into a management position where the same is true.

Uh, guy, I have a college degree. I am APICS and Six Sigma Certified, and I've been in my field for 28 years. As much as you want to use the "Short Skirt" logic for rape, it isn't because of me. Sorry.

I could have done my job from a wheelchair and been just as effective. But slipping on ice meant that they had to pay $50,000 in medical bills, and they just werent' good with that. I mean, did you think we really meant it when we said you had "insurance"? What do you think this is, Canada?

 

[JoeB131]

I'll let you in on a little secret, Joe...a GOOD employee is so hard to find that when you do get one you treat them like gold because they're such an asset to your company! I wouldn't EVER mistreat a good employee and I would fire any manager that worked for me who did.

I've seen good employees abused and pathetic ass-kissers promoted.

Quite the contrary, most bosses fear good employees because, hey, they are potential threats.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Over the years, Joe...I've probably fired well over a thousand people. It's one of the parts of my job that I've never liked but accepted for what it was. The one thing that I've learned from all those firings...over all those years...is that most of those people fire themselves. Let me repeat that for you...most of the people I had to let go in essence fired themselves! They showed up late for work. They took sick days when they felt like doing something other than working. They spent more time talking about their love lives or lack there of than they did doing their jobs. They didn't take pride in the job they did and didn't care about the customers who paid their wages. They did everything but attach a post-it to their foreheads that read "PLEASE FIRE ME!!!" in big letters for all the world to see.

Anyone who claims they've fired a thousand people and every last fucking one of them deserved it strikes me as kind of a Nazi. Come on, they ALL deserved it? Every last one of them?

What I've found is that there are very few bad employees... usually just bad hiring and bad management.

Here's the thing. I never showed up late for work at my last job in six years. Not once. I took a total of maybe 12 sick days, 10 of those related to surgery to correct the issue that has left me as angry as I am. I worked sometimes 60 hour weeks because other employees were happy to put in their 40 and call it a day.

And, yes, wow. employees have lives. Like the lady who rushed home because her son attempted suicide, and the manager was keen to get rid of her after that so he could hire his drinking buddy.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[

What is unfair firing Joe? You don't have a right to a fair boss, hell you don't even have a right to a job..... I mean seriously man.

Well, why doesn't everyone have a right to a job? Because the rich would rather work 1 person to death than give 3 people jobs? That seems kind of stupid. I'm currently working in a department that used to employ 9 people and currently only has 3, doing the same amount of work.

FDR called for everyone to have a remunerative job in his Inaugural Address of 1944.

It's not like we have a lack of things that need to be done. They just aren't being done because a rich person can't make money doing them.

As for unfair firings. Let's look at my quick list.

Getting fired because you slipped on some ice and ran up too many medical bills. Happened to me personally, permanently cured me of being a Republican.

Getting fired because you showed up at the Holiday Party with your life partner, who happened to be another chick.

Getting fired because you got pregnant.

getting fired because you had an allergic reaction to something they weren't keeping MSDS sheets on.

Fired because your ex-girlfriend was now sleeping with a manager.

Getting fired because management lied to you about closing down your branch.

Getting fired because someone saw your resume on Craig's List and didn't like that you were looking.

These are all things I've seen happen in the last 22 years since I've left the Army.

Joe, I'm a mostly silent partner in a restaurant with my siblings. Went there for lunch today, my sister in law actually runs the place, but she was gone for the day for doctors appointments. Anyway, service is kind of slow so I walk back to the kitchen to see what's going on, the shift manager and the chef are in an argument because two of the cooks were found sleeping in the backroom and the chef woke them up and fired them.

Turns out the shift manager is friends with the two sleepy employees and has covered for them on several occasions and told the Chef that he couldn't fire them this time either and that is what caused the argument.

Now, I haven't been around for very long, been stationed overseas and what not, but they definitely know who I am. I confirmed that the two cooks were fired , AND fired the shift manager.

At last count my sister in law had 48 texts from the shift manager crying that it wasn't fair that i fired her, and threatening a lawsuit.

Rare is the person who says "yeah I deserved to be fired" and EVERYONE has a sob story.

 

[Oldstyle]

I'll let you in on a little secret, Joe...a GOOD employee is so hard to find that when you do get one you treat them like gold because they're such an asset to your company! I wouldn't EVER mistreat a good employee and I would fire any manager that worked for me who did.

I've seen good employees abused and pathetic ass-kissers promoted.

Quite the contrary, most bosses fear good employees because, hey, they are potential threats.

Most bosses revere good employees because they can delegate and start to have a semblance of a life other than work! Good employees are not only not a threat...they are a great insurance policy in case you're ever in the job market yourself. I've gotten hired to two different positions because former employees of mine heard that I was job hunting and recommended me. One of them I had actually fired years earlier. He didn't hold it against me because he KNEW that he deserved to be fired.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Joe, I'm a mostly silent partner in a restaurant with my siblings. Went there for lunch today, my sister in law actually runs the place, but she was gone for the day for doctors appointments. Anyway, service is kind of slow so I walk back to the kitchen to see what's going on, the shift manager and the chef are in an argument because two of the cooks were found sleeping in the backroom and the chef woke them up and fired them.

Turns out the shift manager is friends with the two sleepy employees and has covered for them on several occasions and told the Chef that he couldn't fire them this time either and that is what caused the argument.

Now, I haven't been around for very long, been stationed overseas and what not, but they definitely know who I am. I confirmed that the two cooks were fired , AND fired the shift manager.

At last count my sister in law had 48 texts from the shift manager crying that it wasn't fair that i fired her, and threatening a lawsuit.

Rare is the person who says "yeah I deserved to be fired" and EVERYONE has a sob story.

Well, it's a good thing for the people who work there that you are a mostly "silent" partner. Becuase, honestly, it sounds like that place is pretty badly managed.

without getting into family here, the person who "runs the place" didn't know this was going on? That sounds, well, kind of clueless.

 

[Oldstyle]

As for the volume of people I've had to fire? I was in the nightclub business for almost four decades. It's a job where people are tempted to do bad things. The first person I ever worked for as a manager explained my job as a club manager like this. He told me that 25% of people would steal no matter what...25% of people would never steal no matter what...and 50% of people would be on the fence. My job was to fire the 25% that would always steal...scare the 50% who were on the fence into being good boys and girls...and to REWARD the 25% who would never steal. He was a very wise man and I've spent a lot of years doing just what he advised. That doesn't make me a "Nazi"...it makes me a Food & Beverage professional.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Most bosses revere good employees because they can delegate and start to have a semblance of a life other than work! Good employees are not only not a threat...they are a great insurance policy in case you're ever in the job market yourself. I've gotten hired to two different positions because former employees of mine heard that I was job hunting and recommended me. One of them I had actually fired years earlier. He didn't hold it against me because he KNEW that he deserved to be fired.

Yeah, right. And I'm sure he sung your hossanas.

Come on, guy, you are stretching credulity here.

Frankly, the first place I worked after leaving the Army. Owned by two brothers who inherited the business from Mom and Dad. One was a coke-head party guy, the other was a bible thumping Moron. Lied to us about moving the business out of Chicago to Milwaukee (because that's what Jesus would do.) Fired us all, went out of business a year later. (Although to be fair to them, the market they were in was so radically changed inthe 1990's that even if they were competent, they'd have had a hard time.)

The manager they hired sexually harrassed female employees on a regular basis.

And that wasn't the company that totally cured me of capitalism. I just chalked it up as "the really bad one".

No, the problem is, when workers don't have protections and rights, employers can engage in dumbass. And they usually do.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

[

Joe, I'm a mostly silent partner in a restaurant with my siblings. Went there for lunch today, my sister in law actually runs the place, but she was gone for the day for doctors appointments. Anyway, service is kind of slow so I walk back to the kitchen to see what's going on, the shift manager and the chef are in an argument because two of the cooks were found sleeping in the backroom and the chef woke them up and fired them.

Turns out the shift manager is friends with the two sleepy employees and has covered for them on several occasions and told the Chef that he couldn't fire them this time either and that is what caused the argument.

Now, I haven't been around for very long, been stationed overseas and what not, but they definitely know who I am. I confirmed that the two cooks were fired , AND fired the shift manager.

At last count my sister in law had 48 texts from the shift manager crying that it wasn't fair that i fired her, and threatening a lawsuit.

Rare is the person who says "yeah I deserved to be fired" and EVERYONE has a sob story.

Well, it's a good thing for the people who work there that you are a mostly "silent" partner. Becuase, honestly, it sounds like that place is pretty badly managed.

without getting into family here, the person who "runs the place" didn't know this was going on? That sounds, well, kind of clueless.

Badly managed because she wasn't aware of what is going on 24/7? Those two weren't stupid, they didn't go sleep somewhere my my SIL was around. And for whatever reason, up until today there was never a big issue made of it. I guess the chef knew the shift manager and they were friends and so just dealt with it, until he just couldn't tolerate it any more.

However, that's not the point, the point is that no matter what people have done wrong, they always feel like they got a raw deal when they are fired.

 

[JoeB131]

As for the volume of people I've had to fire? I was in the nightclub business for almost four decades. It's a job where people are tempted to do bad things. The first person I ever worked for as a manager explained my job as a club manager like this. He told me that 25% of people would steal no matter what...25% of people would never steal no matter what...and 50% of people would be on the fence. My job was to fire the 25% that would always steal...scare the 50% who were on the fence into being good boys and girls...and to REWARD the 25% who would never steal. He was a very wise man and I've spent a lot of years doing just what he advised. That doesn't make me a "Nazi"...it makes me a Food & Beverage professional.

So let me get this straight. You work in an industry that is notorious for high turnover and underpaying employees, and you wonder why you don't get good employees? Seriously?

 

[Oldstyle]

That holds true from the smallest corner bar to the highest volume F&B operations in the country.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Badly managed because she wasn't aware of what is going on 24/7? Those two weren't stupid, they didn't go sleep somewhere my my SIL was around. And for whatever reason, up until today there was never a big issue made of it. I guess the chef knew the shift manager and they were friends and so just dealt with it, until he just couldn't tolerate it any more.

However, that's not the point, the point is that no matter what people have done wrong, they always feel like they got a raw deal when they are fired.

So what you are saying is the Chef was in on it, too, and you didn't fire him?

Here's the first question I would ask. WHY were these two "sleeping on the job"? Could it possibly be because they were working one or two other jobs, and decided to catch a few winks when it wasn't that important? Well, that's a pretty fucked up commentary on the American Working life where we all have to work three jobs to make ends meet so the Super-Rich can continue to enjoy their dressage horsies.

 

[Oldstyle]

As for the volume of people I've had to fire? I was in the nightclub business for almost four decades. It's a job where people are tempted to do bad things. The first person I ever worked for as a manager explained my job as a club manager like this. He told me that 25% of people would steal no matter what...25% of people would never steal no matter what...and 50% of people would be on the fence. My job was to fire the 25% that would always steal...scare the 50% who were on the fence into being good boys and girls...and to REWARD the 25% who would never steal. He was a very wise man and I've spent a lot of years doing just what he advised. That doesn't make me a "Nazi"...it makes me a Food & Beverage professional.

So let me get this straight. You work in an industry that is notorious for high turnover and underpaying employees, and you wonder why you don't get good employees? Seriously?

On the contrary, Joe...my industry is "notorious" for paying quite well. If you're a bartender at a top club you're walking out at the end of the night with a lot of cash in your pocket. I was a history major in college but I put myself through school working as a bartender. It was the highest paying job around for the hours worked by far!

 

[JoeB131]

That holds true from the smallest corner bar to the highest volume F&B operations in the country.

You see, I don't buy that. I think most people want to do a good job. I think we've developed this insane society where people work themselves to death because income is unequally distributed.

 

[JoeB131]

[

On the contrary, Joe...my industry is "notorious" for paying quite well. If you're a bartender at a top club you're walking out at the end of the night with a lot of cash in your pocket. I was a history major in college but I put myself through school working as a bartender. It was the highest paying job around for the hours worked by far!

Hmmm... do you want to make anything else up to prove your point?

 

[Oldstyle]

I've been a manager at some of the highest volume clubs in the country. People that work at places like that are some of the best at what they DO in the country and the money they command reflects that.

 

[JoeB131]

I've been a manager at some of the highest volume clubs in the country. People that work at places like that are some of the best at what they DO in the country and the money they command reflects that.

Okay, whatever, dude. I really don't care.

Honestly, some of these "high-profile" clubs kind of befuddle me. "Hey, let's wait in line to get into a club that is noisy and crowded."

Never understood the appeal.

Also don't think that 25% of the employees would steal from the place unless the management were such douchebags they had it coming.

 

[Oldstyle]

[

On the contrary, Joe...my industry is "notorious" for paying quite well. If you're a bartender at a top club you're walking out at the end of the night with a lot of cash in your pocket. I was a history major in college but I put myself through school working as a bartender. It was the highest paying job around for the hours worked by far!

Hmmm... do you want to make anything else up to prove your point?

I worked at Lily's in Faneuil Hall as a bartender back in the 70's. Ask anyone from Boston if that would have been a good gig, Joe! I made HUGE money at that job.

 

[Oldstyle]

I've been a manager at some of the highest volume clubs in the country. People that work at places like that are some of the best at what they DO in the country and the money they command reflects that.

Okay, whatever, dude. I really don't care.

Honestly, some of these "high-profile" clubs kind of befuddle me. "Hey, let's wait in line to get into a club that is noisy and crowded."

Never understood the appeal.

Also don't think that 25% of the employees would steal from the place unless the management were such douchebags they had it coming.

Ah, yes...and that was usually the rationale that the thieves always gave when they got caught, Joe! They were stealing because they "deserved" that money.