What Promises Were Made For Obamacare - Which Have Materialized/Not Materialized ?

[Sun Devil 92]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

 

[Arianrhod]

Because some of us care when we are sold a bill of goods with lies.

I get it, you don't think the grandfather clause was adequately explained to you. That's a very good argument for learning how things work yourself instead of waiting for a politician to explain them to you. I've already said Obama botched it--and he's been publicly spanked for it quite a bit. As a policy matter, his subsequent attempt to extend grandfathered status to post ACA plans was foolish and damaging to markets in those states that took up the option.

Not adequately explained to me.

Did you see the Stewart Clip ?

When John Stewart goes after Obama, there is a problem.

PERIOD. That was explanation enough.

There was no explanation prior. Hence it was a lie. PERIOD.

So a comedian's riff is more "factual" to you than the facts. Fascinating...

Good grief !

It was given the lie of the year.

I am sure they don't qualify either.

Do me a favor...don't respond to my posts. You are an ass.

Stewart only shows clips of Obama's statements made by Obama. Then points out that the backpeddling is B.S.

So you don't accept Greenbeard's clarification?

Oh, right. Because it contains facts from primary sources. And you don't trust those mean old things.

 

[Greenbeard]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Because some of us care when we are sold a bill of goods with lies.

I get it, you don't think the grandfather clause was adequately explained to you. That's a very good argument for learning how things work yourself instead of waiting for a politician to explain them to you. I've already said Obama botched it--and he's been publicly spanked for it quite a bit. As a policy matter, his subsequent attempt to extend grandfathered status to post ACA plans was foolish and damaging to markets in those states that took up the option.

Not adequately explained to me.

Did you see the Stewart Clip ?

When John Stewart goes after Obama, there is a problem.

PERIOD. That was explanation enough.

There was no explanation prior. Hence it was a lie. PERIOD.

So a comedian's riff is more "factual" to you than the facts. Fascinating...

Good grief !

It was given the lie of the year.

I am sure they don't qualify either.

Do me a favor...don't respond to my posts. You are an ass.

Stewart only shows clips of Obama's statements made by Obama. Then points out that the backpeddling is B.S.

So you don't accept Greenbeard's clarification?

Oh, right. Because it contains facts from primary sources. And you don't trust those mean old things.

And what facts are those. The fact that say that what Obama was saying didn't line up with what was delivered.

Them's pretty much the facts.

Washing it out as "miscommunication" isn't a fact....sorry to tell you that.

Oh, those mean facts...that don't exist.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

As an expert. Wasn't that what I said originally.

 

[Greenbeard]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

As an expert. Wasn't that what I said originally.

Ah. Well I am an expert, but that's not why you should listen to me. Arguments and information should stand on their own, one doesn't to provide a list of credentials to offer them.

 

[Arianrhod]

And what facts are those. The fact that say that what Obama was saying didn't line up with what was delivered.

The ones in Post #13 that you responded to.

Not to mention every post Greenbeard's made on the subject in this forum for the past five years.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

As an expert. Wasn't that what I said originally.

Ah. Well I am an expert, but that's not why you should listen to me. Arguments and information should stand on their own, one doesn't to provide a list of credentials to offer them.

Agreed.

And the associated information as well so that the analysis can be evaluated.

There is more disinformation than information on the web these days.

I don't go for all the hoopla about Obama being evil.

But on this one, I could smell something wrong from the start and it appears he did little to correct the disinformation he was sharing. I can't prove he knew it....others are less kind.

In the end, the bill was sold on at least a couple of big lies (intentional or not).

Your attempts to whitewash them don't do much for your claim.

As you asked: why is this important.....it simply is.

Trust means something to me.

We'll move on to other points now.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

As an expert. Wasn't that what I said originally.

Ah. Well I am an expert, but that's not why you should listen to me. Arguments and information should stand on their own, one doesn't to provide a list of credentials to offer them.

Post 47 would indicate you have yet another follower.

I guess the shepherd needs some sheep.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How many years are we going to harp on the same point? Of what value is this?

The ACA had a grandfather clause; any plan anyone had when it passed was grandfathered in. No, Obama was not clear that if you subsequently ditched your grandfathered plan and got a non-grandfathered plan, you couldn't necessarily keep that new one when the new rules kicked in. The speechwriters and the policy people didn't do a good job of connecting on that one. The White House's communication about policy under the ACA has been exceedingly unimpressive all along.

But the law did have a grandfather clause to protect pre-ACA plans, the intent (and the outcome) was to allow those existing plans to continue. This wasn't some grand caper to pretend that policy was in the law when it wasn't--that provision does exist.

I'd love to read your response to Politifact award on this one.

If you have a link to their retraction, I'd like that too.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The campaign for Obamacare is now over five years old.

Already, the original discussion is fading.

I am trying to develop a history around what was said prior and what has happened.

Lots to sort out.

As an example: Supposedly, the statement was made that Obamacare would save the average family 2,500/year. Now, that isn't happening.

But was that promise really made ?

I don't know.

What about a drop in spending as a percentage of GDP. We know that hasn't happened.

Was it a promise ?

Looking for any history people can provide.

Hey folks....history would be appreciated.

I've looked at article after article on the subject. Many are just to biased to take seriously.

I hope you can see I am attempting to do my own research (and I am done with the apologists).

 

[Sun Devil 92]

A disaster for individual Health Insurance Subscribers.

How so ?

 

[Arianrhod]

The campaign for Obamacare is now over five years old.

Already, the original discussion is fading.

I am trying to develop a history around what was said prior and what has happened.

Lots to sort out.

As an example: Supposedly, the statement was made that Obamacare would save the average family 2,500/year. Now, that isn't happening.

But was that promise really made ?

I don't know.

What about a drop in spending as a percentage of GDP. We know that hasn't happened.

Was it a promise ?

Looking for any history people can provide.

Hey folks....history would be appreciated.

I've looked at article after article on the subject. Many are just to biased to take seriously.

I hope you can see I am attempting to do my own research (and I am done with the apologists).

Feel free to share.

 

[Greenbeard]

I'd love to read your response to Politifact award on this one.

If you have a link to their retraction, I'd like that too.

I don't have any problem with him taking his lumps for that one; as I've said multiple times now, the communication from this White House on the ACA has been awful and detrimental to the implementation of the law. The FAQs that HHS put out on this topic in 2010 were clear that changing plans meant a loss of grandfathered status but obviously the White House was not. A good indication the White House should be relying more on the policy shop and less on the political shop.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I'd love to read your response to Politifact award on this one.

If you have a link to their retraction, I'd like that too.

I don't have any problem with him taking his lumps for that one; as I've said multiple times now, the communication from this White House on the ACA has been awful and detrimental to the implementation of the law. The FAQs that HHS put out on this topic in 2010 were clear that changing plans meant a loss of grandfathered status but obviously the White House was not. A good indication the White House should be relying more on the policy shop and less on the political shop.

Translation: Truth is better than fiction.

He did not state the truth. That is a fact.

If he did it intentionally, then it is a lie.

If not, what was it ? A fib ? A mistatement ?

Either way, it was used to sell the law.

And let's be clear that your post indicates incompetence on the part of his handlers.

I had little reason to trust him from the start.

He's done nothing but remove what little I had.

 

[Greenbeard]

He's done nothing but remove what little I had.

Ah, six pages in the agenda comes out.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

He's done nothing but remove what little I had.

Ah, six pages in the agenda comes out.

You are such an expert !

Of course, you remove the rest of the post (something I don't care about...but you seem to....and then do it).

I am looking for information...more information.

Your response "how long do we have to do this ?".

Feel free to stop posting to this thread anytime you like.

BTW: I don't trust the right either.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You are correct...this is a shot at LoneLaugher

Obamacare.......the good stuff. | Page 7 | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

As an expert. Wasn't that what I said originally.

Ah. Well I am an expert, but that's not why you should listen to me. Arguments and information should stand on their own, one doesn't to provide a list of credentials to offer them.

I am all ears as to why you are an expert on Obamacare.

Are you an expert on the sales job ?

An expert in policy ?

An expert in implementation ?

Maybe you've just had a bad time getting insurance and done a lot of research.

I don't see you as illuminating us with anything special.

But you do seem to have a flock of sheep.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

How many years are we going to harp on the same point? Of what value is this?

The ACA had a grandfather clause; any plan anyone had when it passed was grandfathered in. No, Obama was not clear that if you subsequently ditched your grandfathered plan and got a non-grandfathered plan, you couldn't necessarily keep that new one when the new rules kicked in. The speechwriters and the policy people didn't do a good job of connecting on that one. The White House's communication about policy under the ACA has been exceedingly unimpressive all along.

But the law did have a grandfather clause to protect pre-ACA plans, the intent (and the outcome) was to allow those existing plans to continue. This wasn't some grand caper to pretend that policy was in the law when it wasn't--that provision does exist.

I'd love to read your response to Politifact award on this one.

If you have a link to their retraction, I'd like that too.

I take it you didn't set Politifact straight.

 

[Arianrhod]

Which you brought up why?

Because I don't see you in the same light. That should be obvious.

What light is that? You're bringing this up so whatever you want to say, just say it.

As an expert. Wasn't that what I said originally.

Ah. Well I am an expert, but that's not why you should listen to me. Arguments and information should stand on their own, one doesn't to provide a list of credentials to offer them.

I am all ears as to why you are an expert on Obamacare.

Are you an expert on the sales job ?

An expert in policy ?

An expert in implementation ?

Maybe you've just had a bad time getting insurance and done a lot of research.

I don't see you as illuminating us with anything special.

But you do seem to have a flock of sheep.

He seems to be an expert in finding primary sources on the Internet.