What portion of your income goes to the government?

[NightFox]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

 

[Rustic]

I'm assuming that most people who read this are either middle-class or upper middle class. I want to know what portion of your income goes to the government in the form of taxes, fees, and other payments. You have to include taxes of federal, state, and local. That includes federal income tax and state income tax. What percent of your income goes to those governments? I'm going to guess that it is AT LEAST 25%. Everyone complains about the disappearing middle class and we can blame outsourcing and all of that but has anyone ever considered that the poor and middle class are being taxed away. 25% from the Clinton's or Trump doesn't affect them that much since they would still be able to afford a pretty affluent life style but 25% from someone making below 30K a year significantly affects their lives.

I'm just curious what portion of your income goes to the government. I don't know if anyone has ever added it up in their head before or even thought about. We tend to only think of taxes as income taxes but we also have so many other taxes along with that and not one politician wants to remove those taxes. They don't even want to try because they need to fill government troughs. They really don't give a **** about anyone at all but themselves.

Too much

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

High Tax rate now 39.4%.I had huge reply but gave up.

Boils down to: CAP gains is from money already taxed? Should they pay 40% FED rate again on income from investments? RW said yes, on profits (at least I think he did).

Second is AGI? what are these "adjustments"? only for the mitts? we get them too?

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

That is why YOU are not in charge!

Churches are not charities . Am I wrong !?

Yes, without a doubt, you are wrong. Check your tax laws.

I'm talking the real definition of charity , not the tax code definition .

What the heck do you think most churches do with the money donated to them?

My church alone supports humanitarian efforts in Cuba (our pastor is Cuban), help poor children in our local schools with school supplies, provide space for and sponsor the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, provide a food pantry for the poor, etc.

Are those not charitable endeavors?

 

[Timmy]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

 

[bripat9643]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

They put their entire investment at risk to make the gains. Minimum wage drones risk nothing.

 

[Timmy]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

That is why YOU are not in charge!

Churches are not charities . Am I wrong !?

Yes, without a doubt, you are wrong. Check your tax laws.

I'm talking the real definition of charity , not the tax code definition .

What the heck do you think most churches do with the money donated to them?

My church alone supports humanitarian efforts in Cuba (our pastor is Cuban), help poor children in our local schools with school supplies, provide space for and sponsor the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, provide a food pantry for the poor, etc.

Are those not charitable endeavors?

I don't know what they do with it because they don't have to report it . Unlike real charities.

Your church can use that money to build a giant cathedral . Many do .

 

[Timmy]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

They put their entire investment at risk to make the gains. Minimum wage drones risk nothing.

So? The point of this thread is "how much of your income goes to gov".

 

[bripat9643]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

They put their entire investment at risk to make the gains. Minimum wage drones risk nothing.

So? The point of this thread is "how much of your income goes to gov".

Timmy was whining about the fact that the capital gains tax rate is lower then the income tax rate.

 

[NightFox]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

Doesn't depend on where it came from, unless the investor stole the money or it's being invested by a non-profit or a church, it was subject to taxes before he/she/it invested it. Even with deferred taxes (like 401K, IRA's) that principle still gets taxed.

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

Even if you don't buy shit it gets taxed again by inflation, that's why small investors have to put their money into riskier investments than they otherwise would (so they have a shot at a rate of return that exceeds the rate of inflation).

 

[Timmy]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

Doesn't depend on where it came from, unless the investor stole the money or it's being invested by a non-profit or a church, it was subject to taxes before he/she/it invested it. Even with deferred taxes (like 401K, IRA's) that principle still gets taxed.

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

Even if you don't buy shit it gets taxed again by inflation, that's why small investors have to put their money into riskier investments than they otherwise would (so they have a shot at a rate of return that exceeds the rate of inflation).

Inheritance ?

 

[Timmy]

Well we are talking income tax . These articles are also "adjusted " income . Not true income . And if someone works their fingers to the bone is it "fair" to tax them the same as capital gains? Where the person just invested money .?

And mitt donates to church, I wouldn't consider that charity .

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

They put their entire investment at risk to make the gains. Minimum wage drones risk nothing.

So? The point of this thread is "how much of your income goes to gov".

Timmy was whining about the fact that the capital gains tax rate is lower then the income tax rate.

And your whining about "tax fairness" and all of a sudden you want to make acceptions for cap gains?

 

[NightFox]

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

Doesn't depend on where it came from, unless the investor stole the money or it's being invested by a non-profit or a church, it was subject to taxes before he/she/it invested it. Even with deferred taxes (like 401K, IRA's) that principle still gets taxed.

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

Even if you don't buy shit it gets taxed again by inflation, that's why small investors have to put their money into riskier investments than they otherwise would (so they have a shot at a rate of return that exceeds the rate of inflation).

Inheritance ?

It's taxed, the person that is passing it on pays taxes on it (when they earned it) and possibly again by the federal estate tax if the amount exceeds the exemption limit.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That is why YOU are not in charge!

Churches are not charities . Am I wrong !?

Yes, without a doubt, you are wrong. Check your tax laws.

I'm talking the real definition of charity , not the tax code definition .

What the heck do you think most churches do with the money donated to them?

My church alone supports humanitarian efforts in Cuba (our pastor is Cuban), help poor children in our local schools with school supplies, provide space for and sponsor the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, provide a food pantry for the poor, etc.

Are those not charitable endeavors?

I don't know what they do with it because they don't have to report it . Unlike real charities.

Your church can use that money to build a giant cathedral . Many do .

What makes you think we don't have to report it? Every penny my church receives is documented. How do I know this? I am the one who files the reports and provides documentation to those who donate to the church for their taxes.

Do you enjoy being proven wrong?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

They put their entire investment at risk to make the gains. Minimum wage drones risk nothing.

So? The point of this thread is "how much of your income goes to gov".

Timmy was whining about the fact that the capital gains tax rate is lower then the income tax rate.

And your whining about "tax fairness" and all of a sudden you want to make acceptions for cap gains?

Acceptions? That isn't even a word. Try again!

 

[bripat9643]

They already PAID 40% when they first earned the money. They made a lot, saved a lot. Now they smart enough to invest it and make profit. You think 40% again is OK?

AND you not answer to GDP drop if investments drop. Is 40% too high to risk investing savings? I really don't know? The system is supposedly supposed to encourage growth. Social Engineering is hard. You can't pack a room full of Al Frankenstien and expect idiots to find the magic recipe. I don't have answers.

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

They put their entire investment at risk to make the gains. Minimum wage drones risk nothing.

So? The point of this thread is "how much of your income goes to gov".

Timmy was whining about the fact that the capital gains tax rate is lower then the income tax rate.

And your whining about "tax fairness" and all of a sudden you want to make acceptions for cap gains?

I didn't say a thing about tax fairness. However, I have yet to see any kind of rational moral argument for the progressive income tax that is distinguishable from an argument to justify armed robbery.

 

[Timmy]

They only get taxed on the gains, not the investment.

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

Doesn't depend on where it came from, unless the investor stole the money or it's being invested by a non-profit or a church, it was subject to taxes before he/she/it invested it. Even with deferred taxes (like 401K, IRA's) that principle still gets taxed.

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

Even if you don't buy shit it gets taxed again by inflation, that's why small investors have to put their money into riskier investments than they otherwise would (so they have a shot at a rate of return that exceeds the rate of inflation).

Inheritance ?

It's taxed, the person that is passing it on pays taxes on it (when they earned it) and possibly again by the federal estate tax if the amount exceeds the exemption limit.

Only the gains are taxed . The money u earned and thru in is not retaxed .

Like interest on a savings account .

 

[Timmy]

Churches are not charities . Am I wrong !?

Yes, without a doubt, you are wrong. Check your tax laws.

I'm talking the real definition of charity , not the tax code definition .

What the heck do you think most churches do with the money donated to them?

My church alone supports humanitarian efforts in Cuba (our pastor is Cuban), help poor children in our local schools with school supplies, provide space for and sponsor the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts, provide a food pantry for the poor, etc.

Are those not charitable endeavors?

I don't know what they do with it because they don't have to report it . Unlike real charities.

Your church can use that money to build a giant cathedral . Many do .

What makes you think we don't have to report it? Every penny my church receives is documented. How do I know this? I am the one who files the reports and provides documentation to those who donate to the church for their taxes.

Do you enjoy being proven wrong?

I am not wrong . Church can spend that money on what they want . It's great that you give receipts to the donors , but no one questions how charitable the church is behaving .

Take the church of Scientology .

 

[NightFox]

Er,,,ummm... you don't think the principle gets taxed before they invest it?

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

Doesn't depend on where it came from, unless the investor stole the money or it's being invested by a non-profit or a church, it was subject to taxes before he/she/it invested it. Even with deferred taxes (like 401K, IRA's) that principle still gets taxed.

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

Even if you don't buy shit it gets taxed again by inflation, that's why small investors have to put their money into riskier investments than they otherwise would (so they have a shot at a rate of return that exceeds the rate of inflation).

Inheritance ?

It's taxed, the person that is passing it on pays taxes on it (when they earned it) and possibly again by the federal estate tax if the amount exceeds the exemption limit.

Only the gains are taxed . The money u earned and thru in is not retaxed .

Same shit, different day the money you inherited was taxed before you inherited it and it is RETAXED if you exceed the estate tax exemption limit (currently $5.42 million).

Like interest on a savings account .

What don't you get about the fact that the principle was already taxed before it went into a savings account? and it's still taxed even after it goes into the savings account by inflation.

 

[Timmy]

I don't know . Depends on where it came from .

Doesn't depend on where it came from, unless the investor stole the money or it's being invested by a non-profit or a church, it was subject to taxes before he/she/it invested it. Even with deferred taxes (like 401K, IRA's) that principle still gets taxed.

My salary is taxed . And if I buy shit wh it, I get taxed again.

Even if you don't buy shit it gets taxed again by inflation, that's why small investors have to put their money into riskier investments than they otherwise would (so they have a shot at a rate of return that exceeds the rate of inflation).

Inheritance ?

It's taxed, the person that is passing it on pays taxes on it (when they earned it) and possibly again by the federal estate tax if the amount exceeds the exemption limit.

Only the gains are taxed . The money u earned and thru in is not retaxed .

Same shit, different day the money you inherited was taxed before you inherited it and it is RETAXED if you exceed the estate tax exemption limit (currently $5.42 million).

Like interest on a savings account .

What don't you get about the fact that the principle was already taxed before it went into a savings account? and it's still taxed even after it goes into the savings account by inflation.

There are lots of causes to inflation. You can't just say it's a hidden tax.

That being said, all income sources face the same hit . Why do right wingers only seem to care about cap gains?

 

[NightFox]

There are lots of causes to inflation.

Er.. no.. in a fiat currency system like we have there is only one cause of inflation, policies and actions emanating from the central bank; in our case the Federal Reserve which directly controls the expansion of the money supply (inflation) or the contraction of the money supply (deflation). The intensity of the effects of inflation (e.g. rising prices) are variable depending on what actions other actors in the economy take but the source is always the same.

You can't just say it's a hidden tax.

Sure I can because that is exactly what it is and always has been in fiat currency systems, government devalues the currency (in our case by issuing new debt and selling it to the Fed) in order to provide itself revenue to fund whatever it is that those in charge want to do but are too afraid to face the wrath of the people to raise visible taxes to accomplish.

The net effect on the citizenry is that the buying power of their currency is eroded which is for all intents and purposes a tax, the intensity of the erosion effect is variable, in that the first people/organizations to get their hands on newly "printed" money can deploy it before the negative effects of inflation (i.e. rising prices) hit the general economy while those who get it last bear the full brunt of the negative effects (known as the distribution effect of inflation) this facilitates the transfer of wealth from the lowest end of the economic scale to the top end of the economic scale.

Why do right wingers only seem to care about cap gains?

dunno, you'll have to ask a right winger that one, however based on my experience your premise is inaccurate.