Dear
NYcarbineer Actually I AGREE the whole problem IS to separate the civil contracts from the social traditions.
The PROBLEM is where the liberals draw the line is STILL NOT NEUTRAL AND SECULAR ENOUGH. It already mixes govt with social values, programming and regulation!
So we void all marriages and marriage licenses in the country......just to keep gays out of it?
Why bother?
Just allow gays to marry and the situation is resolved. This massive reclassification, voiding of all marriage licenses and the changing of the laws of 50 of 50 States.......serves no practical purpose. As marriage serves all the same ends....and requires none of the additional work.
NOTE: If people don't agree on benefits, such as whether to recognize same sex couples, or who constitutes a dependent, THAT's where I recommend that people organize their programs by affiliated GROUPS or PARTY or NONPROFIT networks that SHARE their values.
Who said this has to be done through Govt?
Why can't there be subgroups that people AGREE represent them.
And then maybe the people can direct their taxes to that, or govt or states can direct funds to cover catastrophic issues as necessary for public health safety and security but leave the
private business to the people to manage as needed.
People don't need to agree. That's something else your argument doesn't take into consideration: people disagreeing. And the law resolving their dispute.
Its entirely possible for people to disagree and for one party to be wrong. The idea that if two parties disagree that the law should just abandon the entire topic in the name of 'neutrality' is unnecessarily complicated, contrary to our conception of law and utterly needless.
Syriusly you don't have to void anything, just transfer the responsibility to local institutions that people agree represent them.
Those institutions are called city and county governments.
Like where my wife and I got our marriage licenses.
That is where 'the people agree' represent them.
No
Syriusly
I am saying instead of taking these 50/50 conflicts and forcing one side over the other
through voting by majority or ruling through court, either resolve the conflict or separate jurisdiction and policy..
I am saying that your concepts are wrong- and bad for America.
The Supreme Court overturned unconstitutional state bans on mixed race marriages in 1967- at a time when the majority of Americans opposed mixed race relations. It would be more than 20 years before most Americans believed that mixed race couples had a right to marry. Even now a sizeable minority still objects to mixed race marriages- and by the way- 'civil unions' or your variation would not change their view.
The Constitution is there- for among other reasons- to protect Americans from those who would deny them there rights.
The Supreme Court was right- and there is no need to change marriage- mine or anyone elses.
Syriusly Whoa, you are missing the point that RACE is different from orientation and transgender.
Orientation and transgender identify have been known to CHANGE on a spiritual level DIFFERENT from the physical level. This cannot be said of RACE which is genetic and not changed by spiritual healing or any other psychological or spiritual process as has happened with orientation.
I can cite CASES of people changing orientation, and coming out transgender or gay after having been married and maintaining hetereosexual relations even to the extent of having children and families together.
I can cite CASES of people changing to hetereosexual, and I personally know two people where one came out transgender after spiritual healing and the other dropped the transgender impulses and decided to stay as a male and not change as his father had before him to a woman.
I have NEVER heard of someone "changing race" to something other
than what they were genetically born. Maybe designation can change
such as whether someone born in Egypt is declared white or black.
But physically their genetics will even be specific to not just RACE but their NATIONALITY
where HLA between Egyptians has a higher chance of matching pure blooded Egyptians,
Nigerians with Nigerians, Vietnamese with Vietnamese, and mixed races have a better
chance of matching HLA if the donor is the same mix (ie Irish-Indian in a case I found on the Internet).
You cannot change the genetics of RACE the same way orientation
can be changed and is FAITH BASED.
It is NOT proven by science what orientation someone is that remains FAITH BASED.
Please do NOT try to equate these two
which is causing a MAJOR PROBLEM.
This is where FAITH BASED arguments have mixed into government.
No one on the side of defending same sex marriage by arguing against Christians as "faith based"
has ever dared to bring up spiritual healing because it introduces the fact that
people have changed orientation by this process. It shows arguments and beliefs
on BOTH sides are "faith based" so this is CONVENIENTLY left out.
Orientation is NOT the same as RACE.
If you don't believe me,
Syriusly, I will not only challenge you in the Bullring
but I'd love to bet you 10 million dollars so I can use that money for charity projects
I have to raise money for anyway.
If you have good causes you'd like to raise 10 million for, let's make a bet
that RACE is genetic, determined by the two parents even BEFORE birth, and cannot be changed but
homosexuality/orientation is spiritual and may or may not change,
and at most there can be shown to be a predilection in the genetics
but it is not FIXED by genetics. The studies on identical twins shows at most 53% chance
of both twins being the same orientation; so it isn't 100% genetic as race is always determined
by the genes of both parents, even before being born so prenatal conditions are ruled out.
In the case of homosexuality or gender identification, it could be that in the womb some
chemical or hormonal changes could affect the individual's orientation or gender ID;
but again this is not true of RACE, where it cannot change by conditions in the womb
or by external factors later (such as people who "became" homosexual after sexual abuse
after they were born and later "changed back" to heterosexual after healing and recovering from the abuse).
Syriusly if THIS issue is the main reason we are arguing
that you equate it with RACE and I am saying RACE is not faith based
as gender/orientation is, then we can resolve this scientifically.
Please let me know if you have charities you would like to raise 10 milion for,
and I am happy to make a 10 million dollar bet. Even Neil Warren the CEO founder of
eharmony was planning to invest millions of dollars in resolving this homosexual issue that
is getting mixed in with legal requirements and forced changes in his company he found unfair but
complied anyway with govt.
IF you are right, and "race and orientation are both equally genetic to each other and cannot be changed," I will raise and donate 10 million to your choices of charities.
If you are wrong on this, you can raise the 10 million for the liberal charities I can't get liberals progressives and Democrats to fund, instead of having to work two jobs to cover the costs myself.
I would love to retire and let you raise money for progressive causes.
The 10M plan I had was to buy out real estate, and set up a longterm sustainable endowment to support
nonprofits including public radio, rescuing missing victims from trafficking or other crimes,
and media education to schools to promote diversity, conflict resolution and inclusion for Constitutional ethics.
By renting out the historic houses as office spaces to create jobs for disabled Vets to do fundraising
and development, this would solve several problems at once to stop dependence on govt by setting up
nonprofits to be self sufficient by training volunteers to have the same business and financial experience
as the corporate investors who use their wealth to become independent instead of relying on govt.
Trouble is, I can hardly find liberals to back this plan because they are so entrenched in depending on govt!
Few even believe they can break out of poverty by owning and managing their own districts as this plan
would lead.
I'd love it if you were impulsive enough to make this bet without researching it further,
assuming that Race and Orientation are equally determined genetically and can't be changed
instead of looking into cases where orientation has changed and noting these are different!
Sadly I think you are too thoughtful and smart, and know these are not the same
and know it can be proven they are not!
If we can resolve at least this issue, that's one step.
There are still other reasons you disagree with me, mostly the
bias against Christian beliefs especially the process of spiritual healing
that has changed people's orientation. I believe this proves there is a
spiritual process involved and that's why govt cannot make a hard rule
as with race that can be scientifically to be determined by the race of
the parents even before birth and is not a "choice" anyone can change.
This is NOT the same as homosexuality and orientation.
Sorry but this needs to be clarified to show why the arguments are different!
