What is your understanding of the atonement, crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus Christ

[Derideo_Te]

"Jesus became the sacrificial animal in ritual. Now you can go straight to God and gain forgiveness directly from Him."

Really, guys, you don't need Porker's or Mr. Right's nonsense stories.

The truth is often called nonsense by fools.

Indeed, Jesus does not need your foolishness.

What are you doing here? This is a religious discussion. You are not discussing anything. You are simply being a clueless troll, hurling insults. Is that all you have, or do you have something useful to contribute?

Nonsense, troll. You are a social con heretic who has no clue of what Jesus and His role is here on Earth.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

Nope!

Jake is a genuine Christian.

I am an atheist and I happen to agree with Jake's apt description of you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"Jesus became the sacrificial animal in ritual. Now you can go straight to God and gain forgiveness directly from Him."

Really, guys, you don't need Porker's or Mr. Right's nonsense stories.

The truth is often called nonsense by fools.

Indeed, Jesus does not need your foolishness.

What are you doing here? This is a religious discussion. You are not discussing anything. You are simply being a clueless troll, hurling insults. Is that all you have, or do you have something useful to contribute?

Nonsense, troll. You are a social con heretic who has no clue of what Jesus and His role is here on Earth.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

 

[Mr.Right]

The truth is often called nonsense by fools.

Indeed, Jesus does not need your foolishness.

What are you doing here? This is a religious discussion. You are not discussing anything. You are simply being a clueless troll, hurling insults. Is that all you have, or do you have something useful to contribute?

Nonsense, troll. You are a social con heretic who has no clue of what Jesus and His role is here on Earth.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Indeed, Jesus does not need your foolishness.

What are you doing here? This is a religious discussion. You are not discussing anything. You are simply being a clueless troll, hurling insults. Is that all you have, or do you have something useful to contribute?

Nonsense, troll. You are a social con heretic who has no clue of what Jesus and His role is here on Earth.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

I will be glad to show you privately, but I will not allow you to insult Our Lord and the The Bible on this thread with your heretical lack of knowledge.

To begin with your private instruction, please tell me whether you are evangelical, fundamentalist, or Pentecostal. If you are Church of Christ, you will not have a chance unless you have a blinding Road to Damascus salvation experience.

 

[Mr.Right]

What are you doing here? This is a religious discussion. You are not discussing anything. You are simply being a clueless troll, hurling insults. Is that all you have, or do you have something useful to contribute?

Nonsense, troll. You are a social con heretic who has no clue of what Jesus and His role is here on Earth.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

I will be glad to show you privately, but I will now allow you to insult Our Lord and the The Bible on this thread with your heretical lack of knowledge.

To begin with your private instruction, please tell me whether you are evangelical, fundamentalist, or Pentecostal. If you are Church of Christ, you will not have a chance unless you have a blinding Road to Damascus salvation experience.

Are you saying that something I said was an insult to God or the Bible? Please show me this alleged indiscretion.

 

[Immanuel]

I never got what I considered a reasonable explanation for all that brutality, suffering and then resurrection of the physical body of Jesus. If you can provide one, then please do. Happy Easter.

Well here is the shorthand...it's a bit more complicated, but this is the nuts and bolts of it. Prior to Jesus, for the common Joe to 'get to God' so to speak and be cleansed of sin, he had to go through the Temple and the priests. He had to give sacrifice, which was usually an animal of some sort (often a lamb), pay the Temple tax and the priests would pray on his behalf for forgiveness. According to Christian thought, Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind which is why He is often called 'The Lamb of God'. Thus one no longer needs to go through the priests or a church. Because of Jesus, the sacrifice has been made. Now you can go straight to God and gain forgiveness directly from Him

This is why I have a serious problem with the catholic church. They claim that the pope is our intercessor with God.

Jesus is our intermediary with God. This is what the Bible teaches. So, in effect, the pope is taking the place of Jesus.

Well that's exactly why Martin Luther nailed 95 complaints against the Church on the door of a Wittenberg church. He was saying 'hey guys...this is bullshit. The Church has corrupted the Word, rendered the sacrifice obsolete, and become the very institution Christianity is supposed to be against.' They would have killed him for it had they gotten their hands on him. But essentially that is why we experienced the Protestant Reformation. The Church had created a corrupt intercessor which made the sacrifice of Jesus meaningless

I've been thinking it is about time for another Reformation. If only I had the courage of Martin Luther.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Nonsense, troll. You are a social con heretic who has no clue of what Jesus and His role is here on Earth.

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

I will be glad to show you privately, but I will not allow you to insult Our Lord and the The Bible on this thread with your heretical lack of knowledge.

To begin with your private instruction, please tell me whether you are evangelical, fundamentalist, or Pentecostal. If you are Church of Christ, you will not have a chance unless you have a blinding Road to Damascus salvation experience.

T

Are you saying that something I said was an insult to God or the Bible? Please show me this alleged indiscretion.

Thank you correcting my spelling. I fixed it above. You may continue.

 

[Mr.Right]

Correct me, if I'm wrong, but aren't you an atheist?

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

I will be glad to show you privately, but I will not allow you to insult Our Lord and the The Bible on this thread with your heretical lack of knowledge.

To begin with your private instruction, please tell me whether you are evangelical, fundamentalist, or Pentecostal. If you are Church of Christ, you will not have a chance unless you have a blinding Road to Damascus salvation experience.

T

Are you saying that something I said was an insult to God or the Bible? Please show me this alleged indiscretion.

Thank you correcting my spelling. I fixed it above. You may continue.

Please answer the question.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You know I am not.

You know that I was washed by the Spirit in the blood of the Lamb when I was nine, and for more than fifty years I have studied the Word and prayed several times daily, only missing when I was in hospital at door's death, and then raised by a miracle. In His Name.

You are social con heretic, are you not? Quoting The Bible will not help you at all.

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

I will be glad to show you privately, but I will not allow you to insult Our Lord and the The Bible on this thread with your heretical lack of knowledge.

To begin with your private instruction, please tell me whether you are evangelical, fundamentalist, or Pentecostal. If you are Church of Christ, you will not have a chance unless you have a blinding Road to Damascus salvation experience.

T

Are you saying that something I said was an insult to God or the Bible? Please show me this alleged indiscretion.

Thank you correcting my spelling. I fixed it above. You may continue.

Please answer the question.

The question is answered. I will not allow you in public to insult our Lord if you want to be instructed in His path. Started a conversation with me privately. Begin with telling me which denomination with which you affiliate.

You are manifesting that immoral stubbornness against which you have been cautioned about before.

 

[Mr.Right]

I am a Christian. I never claimed to be a good one. I know that I must disappoint God on a daily basis. However, my understanding of Jesus sacrifice is based on the Bible. You claim that my understanding is lacking. Would you care to show me, using the Bible, how my understanding is in error?

I will be glad to show you privately, but I will not allow you to insult Our Lord and the The Bible on this thread with your heretical lack of knowledge.

To begin with your private instruction, please tell me whether you are evangelical, fundamentalist, or Pentecostal. If you are Church of Christ, you will not have a chance unless you have a blinding Road to Damascus salvation experience.

T

Are you saying that something I said was an insult to God or the Bible? Please show me this alleged indiscretion.

Thank you correcting my spelling. I fixed it above. You may continue.

Please answer the question.

The question is answered. I will not allow you in public to insult our Lord if you want to be instructed in His path. Started a conversation with me privately. Begin with telling me which denomination with which you affiliate.

You are manifesting that immoral stubbornness against which you have been cautioned about before.

Hey. I offered my understanding of the questioned asked. Your response was scorn and ridicule. You claimed that I insulted God and the Bible, yet you refuse to tell me how. And finally, I don't need your instruction. I have the Bible, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This conversation is over.

 

[BluePhantom]

I never got what I considered a reasonable explanation for all that brutality, suffering and then resurrection of the physical body of Jesus. If you can provide one, then please do. Happy Easter.

Well here is the shorthand...it's a bit more complicated, but this is the nuts and bolts of it. Prior to Jesus, for the common Joe to 'get to God' so to speak and be cleansed of sin, he had to go through the Temple and the priests. He had to give sacrifice, which was usually an animal of some sort (often a lamb), pay the Temple tax and the priests would pray on his behalf for forgiveness. According to Christian thought, Jesus became the sacrifice for all mankind which is why He is often called 'The Lamb of God'. Thus one no longer needs to go through the priests or a church. Because of Jesus, the sacrifice has been made. Now you can go straight to God and gain forgiveness directly from Him

This is why I have a serious problem with the catholic church. They claim that the pope is our intercessor with God.

Jesus is our intermediary with God. This is what the Bible teaches. So, in effect, the pope is taking the place of Jesus.

Well that's exactly why Martin Luther nailed 95 complaints against the Church on the door of a Wittenberg church. He was saying 'hey guys...this is bullshit. The Church has corrupted the Word, rendered the sacrifice obsolete, and become the very institution Christianity is supposed to be against.' They would have killed him for it had they gotten their hands on him. But essentially that is why we experienced the Protestant Reformation. The Church had created a corrupt intercessor which made the sacrifice of Jesus meaningless

I've been thinking it is about time for another Reformation. If only I had the courage of Martin Luther.

In what way would you support another Reformation? In regards to the Catholic Church, I do not embrace their views but I respect their beliefs. They are far from the corrupt institution that they were in the Middle Ages. They still have their problems of course. All religions do but they have come a very long way. I am actually quite impressed by Pope Francis, in fact.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am not scorning or ridiculing. And those are you words bearing false witness against me. Go back and read them. I said in public. You can do whatever you want in private. And, verily, yes, you need the guidance and instruction of one who is far more knowledgeable than you on matters of our Lord and Savior.

Are you going to bare false witness against me.

 

[Mr.Right]

I am not scorning or ridiculing. And those are you words bearing false witness against me. Go back and read them. I said in public. You can do whatever you want in private. And, verily, yes, you need the guidance and instruction of one who is far more knowledgeable than you on matters of our Lord and Savior.

Are you going to bare false witness against me.

You said "Really, guys, you don't need Porker's or Mr. Right's nonsense stories." That seems an awful lot like ridicule to me. So how did I bear bare false witness. You then said that you would not allow me to insult God or the Bible, implying that I'm a fool about Scripture. You then claim to be the sole font of Biblical truth and that you were willing to instruct a poor fool, such as myself, in the error of his ways. You seem, to me, like a vainglorious fool.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You seem, to me, like a vainglorious fool.

Ironic!

 

[Immanuel]

In what way would you support another Reformation? In regards to the Catholic Church, I do not embrace their views but I respect their beliefs. They are far from the corrupt institution that they were in the Middle Ages. They still have their problems of course. All religions do but they have come a very long way. I am actually quite impressed by Pope Francis, in fact.

A return to the Word of God as opposed to what we have today which would be more accurately described as a free for all. We have too much "human interpretation" of what God said that I am afraid we no longer know what God said. My comment was no more a condemnation of today's Catholic Church as it is of my own denomination "Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod" and myself.

Now it seems so easy to condemn the Catholic Church of Luther's time. Indulgences and the likes, but it seems to me that we have lost our ways. So many "interpretations" of every verse of the Bible these days. So many different interpretations and explanations of what God really meant when he said... How do we filter out the false interpretations from what God really said?

I have recently read several articles about what we as Christians actually know about the Bible and much of what Christians know of the Bible and surprisingly Christians did worse than atheists. Here is one of the articles:

Christians Failed the Religious Knowledge Test - The Gospel.com Blog

Did God really say, that the Earth was created in seven days? Or was it seven periods of time? Did God start from nothing or did a "big bang" caused by God start things in motion? Does it really matter? What would Jesus Do? or my favorite WWJD--Why would Jesus die?

Luther's Reformation was a rejection of man's organized religion. It is what we need today. A rejection of our biblical inaccuracies and a return to faith in God.

 

[Mr.Right]

In what way would you support another Reformation? In regards to the Catholic Church, I do not embrace their views but I respect their beliefs. They are far from the corrupt institution that they were in the Middle Ages. They still have their problems of course. All religions do but they have come a very long way. I am actually quite impressed by Pope Francis, in fact.

A return to the Word of God as opposed to what we have today which would be more accurately described as a free for all. We have too much "human interpretation" of what God said that I am afraid we no longer know what God said. My comment was no more a condemnation of today's Catholic Church as it is of my own denomination "Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod" and myself.

Now it seems so easy to condemn the Catholic Church of Luther's time. Indulgences and the likes, but it seems to me that we have lost our ways. So many "interpretations" of every verse of the Bible these days. So many different interpretations and explanations of what God really meant when he said... How do we filter out the false interpretations from what God really said?

I have recently read several articles about what we as Christians actually know about the Bible and much of what Christians know of the Bible and surprisingly Christians did worse than atheists. Here is one of the articles:

Christians Failed the Religious Knowledge Test - The Gospel.com Blog

Did God really say, that the Earth was created in seven days? Or was it seven periods of time? Did God start from nothing or did a "big bang" caused by God start things in motion? Does it really matter? What would Jesus Do? or my favorite WWJD--Why would Jesus die?

Luther's Reformation was a rejection of man's organized religion. It is what we need today. A rejection of our biblical inaccuracies and a return to faith in God.

As Christians, we are told to search the Scriptures. Do not depend on what others say about the Bible. Accept any instruction that is offered, but also verify it against Scripture. above all else, pray and ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BluePhantom]

A return to the Word of God as opposed to what we have today which would be more accurately described as a free for all. We have too much "human interpretation" of what God said that I am afraid we no longer know what God said. My comment was no more a condemnation of today's Catholic Church as it is of my own denomination "Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod" and myself.

Now it seems so easy to condemn the Catholic Church of Luther's time. Indulgences and the likes, but it seems to me that we have lost our ways. So many "interpretations" of every verse of the Bible these days. So many different interpretations and explanations of what God really meant when he said... How do we filter out the false interpretations from what God really said?

Well that's the million dollar question isn't it? It would be great if everyone could read Hebrew and Greek and had access to Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus, etc. If everyone was well educated in ancient history and ancient cultures in order to put scripture into proper perspective. I began to immerse myself in hard, deep study when I was 10 or 11...so about 33 years ago or so and I feel that I have barely scratched the surface. I think one of the things that became liberating for me was when I finally got to the point where, in regard to certain principles, I said to myself, "I don't know, scholars don't know, priests and pastors don't know, we will probably never know....and that's perfectly fine."

As far as filtering out the misinterpretations and mistranslations....I think the best one can do is to read as much on a given topic as they can, listen to all sides of an argument, think about it, meditate upon it, open ourselves to spiritual guidance, and reach the best conclusion we can...or sometimes even, just learn to be content with the idea that there is no conclusion to be reached. That has been my method. It has worked for me. I am certainly open to better ideas though.

I have recently read several articles about what we as Christians actually know about the Bible and much of what Christians know of the Bible and surprisingly Christians did worse than atheists. Here is one of the articles:

Christians Failed the Religious Knowledge Test - The Gospel.com Blog

Did God really say, that the Earth was created in seven days? Or was it seven periods of time? Did God start from nothing or did a "big bang" caused by God start things in motion? Does it really matter? What would Jesus Do? or my favorite WWJD--Why would Jesus die?

Luther's Reformation was a rejection of man's organized religion. It is what we need today. A rejection of our biblical inaccuracies and a return to faith in God.

I understand what you are saying. I think it depends on the individual. You seem to be a person who does not require a church to find your path. Some people do and that does not make them inferior or stupid or anything like that. They simply have different needs. I completely get what you are saying though

 

[Immanuel]

As Christians, we are told to search the Scriptures. Do not depend on what others say about the Bible. Accept any instruction that is offered, but also verify it against Scripture. above all else, pray and ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Yet today, we have renowned Bible interpreters such as Fred Phelps that tell us "God Hates Fags" and many believed him. /sarcasm off

But really, would God approve of any discrimination in the name of "Religious Freedom"?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I am not scorning or ridiculing. And those are you words bearing false witness against me. Go back and read them. I said in public. You can do whatever you want in private. And, verily, yes, you need the guidance and instruction of one who is far more knowledgeable than you on matters of our Lord and Savior.

Are you going to bare false witness against me.

You said "Really, guys, you don't need Porker's or Mr. Right's nonsense stories." That seems an awful lot like ridicule to me. So how did I bear bare false witness. You then said that you would not allow me to insult God or the Bible, implying that I'm a fool about Scripture. You then claim to be the sole font of Biblical truth and that you were willing to instruct a poor fool, such as myself, in the error of his ways. You seem, to me, like a vainglorious fool.

That was not to which you were referring, and you know it.

You have shown you are foolish about scripture, and, yes, I will not let you do it.

"Sole font" is your words, so, yes, you are bearing false witness against me.

I am willing, in conversation privately, to instruct you.

If you continue with evangelical, fundamentalist, Pentecostal, or Church of Christ, or such heresy, yes, you will be corrected openly on the Board.

 

[BluePhantom]

As Christians, we are told to search the Scriptures. Do not depend on what others say about the Bible. Accept any instruction that is offered, but also verify it against Scripture. above all else, pray and ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Yet today, we have renowned Bible interpreters such as Fred Phelps that tell us "God Hates Fags" and many believed him. /sarcasm off

But really, would God approve of any discrimination in the name of "Religious Freedom"?

I don't think so. It seems to me to be an incredible contradiction for Christians to reject homosexuals in the manner in which many do. But here's the problem. Religion is a topic wherein people get so entrenched in their beliefs that it can be impossible to drag them out or get them to think in a different manner. I have been posting on these boards for a couple years on and off and, while I would never suggest I am a great scholar or anything like that, I would be comfortable stating that I know more than the average guy and can present a good argument. Want to know how many people have changed their minds on these boards because of an argument I have made? Zero. Not one. Nada, zilch, zip, nichts, cero, not a sausage. How do you argue with someone who is not willing to listen?

There have been discussions I have been in recently with other posters where I could have continued the discussion, but why? They were not interested in a discussion. They were interested in proclaiming their truth. Why waste the energy?