What is wrong with some people

[MikeK]

How would that solve the problem? You would have still needed to wait because actual emergencies take priority, and the doctors would have still needed to perform the full standard of care.

I would not have needed to wait because I could have walked into one of the clinics and been seen by a paramedic who, like the military medics, would have understood that I didn't need an MD's attention and would have given me the antibiotics, which is all I needed. Everything I experienced in the emergency room was redundant.

And that isn't my "expert" opinion, it's an opinion based on experience and awareness of my own circumstances.

Removing poor people doesn't mean doctors change how they practice medicine.

I apologize if I conveyed the wrong impression but my concern is with eliminating non-emergency complaints, such as my infected finger, not "removing poor people."

My point is I did not need the attention of an MD. And based on what I've heard from several medical professionals, neither do the majority of people who show up at emergency rooms with relatively minor problems which could be handled by paramedics -- just as they are in the military. The existing medical bureaucracy is a consequence of our excessively litigious culture, which is a problem that needs to be addressed.

If the indigent, as well as those who are compromised by the clock as in my case, have walk-in clinics to go to with their non-emergency problems, an enormous burden will be lifted from hospital emergency rooms.

 

[ConHog]

How would that solve the problem? You would have still needed to wait because actual emergencies take priority, and the doctors would have still needed to perform the full standard of care.

I would not have needed to wait because I could have walked into one of the clinics and been seen by a paramedic who, like the military medics, would have understood that I didn't need an MD's attention and would have given me the antibiotics, which is all I needed. Everything I experienced in the emergency room was redundant.

And that isn't my "expert" opinion, it's an opinion based on experience and awareness of my own circumstances.

Removing poor people doesn't mean doctors change how they practice medicine.

I apologize if I conveyed the wrong impression but my concern is with eliminating non-emergency complaints, such as my infected finger, not "removing poor people."

My point is I did not need the attention of an MD. And based on what I've heard from several medical professionals, neither do the majority of people who show up at emergency rooms with relatively minor problems which could be handled by paramedics -- just as they are in the military. The existing medical bureaucracy is a consequence of our excessively litigious culture, which is a problem that needs to be addressed.

If the indigent, as well as those who are compromised by the clock as in my case, have walk-in clinics to go to with their non-emergency problems, an enormous burden will be lifted from hospital emergency rooms.

Oddly, I don't remember making those statements? That's weird..............

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

WOW I guess you're not paying much attention to the intent of the healthcare law. After it's passage, the CBO reported that the new health legislation would cost $115 billion more than estimated when it was enacted. When you can't pay the bills you cut back, you ration. People will be treated far worse under this law by the Governemnt then any Corperation could dream of doing.

 

[rightwinger]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

Look, asshole, from your posts you are clearly a Fascist. You would hold the big transnational corperations responsible for nothing. If people die, and tens of thousands of American Citizens means of making a living are destroyed through the criminal negligence of a corperation, tough shit.

But keep right on preaching this perverse ideology. Make it good and clear to all your fellow citizens that you consider them to be on no value.

WOW I guess you're not paying much attention to the intent of the healthcare law. After it's passage, the CBO reported that the new health legislation would cost $115 billion more than estimated when it was enacted. When you can't pay the bills you cut back, you ration. People will be treated far worse under this law by the Governemnt then any Corperation could dream of doing.

You forgot to mention the death panels

 

[HUGGY]

Death panels

 

[SmarterThanHick]

You're no better than the other idiots who either A) can't read or B) just read whatever they want into a situation.

This Bill was garbage. Look at the cost alone, they were completely dishonest about it. Look at the way they had to get it passed.................. No, I don't trust the bill AS IS, future plans for it scare the piss out of me.

Can't read or just read whatever they want? This coming from the guy who had to ask what happens if you didn't want to buy into the public OPTION? From the guy who knew nothing about the public option and instead just fabricated the missing parts, including how it would be paid for? The public option was a great step. You claim the bill was garbage and that there was dishonesty. Where's your support? In this post you say "I make a claim I produce a link" but I have yet to see it once. No, youtube videos of random people giving their similarly uneducated ignorant opinion don't count.

But you hit the nail on the head: "future plans for it scare the piss out of [you]". It's not that it's bad now, it's that you are a conspiracy theorist scared of what their own shadow could do to them..... in the future.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

How do you pay for your health insurance, if you have it?

Here's a novel idea for you...HE'S GOT A FUCKING JOB!!!!

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Hey Mike. Those quotes are from me, not ConHog. You make a much stronger and focused argument in your latest post.

How would that solve the problem? You would have still needed to wait because actual emergencies take priority, and the doctors would have still needed to perform the full standard of care.

I would not have needed to wait because I could have walked into one of the clinics and been seen by a paramedic who, like the military medics, would have understood that I didn't need an MD's attention and would have given me the antibiotics, which is all I needed. Everything I experienced in the emergency room was redundant.

And that isn't my "expert" opinion, it's an opinion based on experience and awareness of my own circumstances.

The issue there is that you can't sue military paramedics, and non-military paramedics can't prescribe antibiotics. In other words, the system is locked up. We need more nurses given authority to sign off on basic conservative treatment.

But I'm still not convinced that your experience would give you the knowledge as to what is required for different infections. Had the doctor seen a red line down your arm that you missed, indicating blood poisoning, it changes everything. Are you so sure that it was EXACTLY the same as your previous experiences?

Removing poor people doesn't mean doctors change how they practice medicine.

I apologize if I conveyed the wrong impression but my concern is with eliminating non-emergency complaints, such as my infected finger, not "removing poor people."

My point is I did not need the attention of an MD. And based on what I've heard from several medical professionals, neither do the majority of people who show up at emergency rooms with relatively minor problems which could be handled by paramedics -- just as they are in the military. The existing medical bureaucracy is a consequence of our excessively litigious culture, which is a problem that needs to be addressed.

If the indigent, as well as those who are compromised by the clock as in my case, have walk-in clinics to go to with their non-emergency problems, an enormous burden will be lifted from hospital emergency rooms.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. This is the reason we're seeing more "urgent care" centers pop up. The problem is that emergency rooms are not allowed to turn away anyone for any reason, even if their issue is not an emergency. There should be a primary care clinic that patients can be deferred to if they don't meet some emergency criteria, without doctors getting sued whenever the patient doesn't get what they want immediately.

WOW I guess you're not paying much attention to the intent of the healthcare law. After it's passage, the CBO reported that the new health legislation would cost $115 billion more than estimated when it was enacted. When you can't pay the bills you cut back, you ration. People will be treated far worse under this law by the Governemnt then any Corperation could dream of doing.

People seem to focus on the money as if it's the only thing that is coming out of the deal. Yes, treating more people means paying more money. You do realize more people are being treated though, right? And yes, the amount of time spent with each individual goes down. The community gets a significant overall improvement in health at the cost of the individual getting the same level of care with less hand holding.

 

[antagon]

Hmmm so some are justifying socialized healtchare by claiming it's no different than socialized education or socialized law enforcement? Well here's one difference, and it's a a significant one. Schools and police departments are government entities as are roads, etc etc. Hospitals and private insurance companies are just that, private.

The idea of affordable health care for all is a noble one, and personally I don't see the problem with requiring everyone to have some form of insurance; but this notion that this law will keep people from being denied health care is ridiculous. The idea that this bill needed to be so large, and so complex in order to accomplish the goal of lowering costs is ridiculous. There is only one reason to make something so cumbersome, and that is to make it difficult to get to the bottom of what's really going on. Even the devil said "well have to pass the bill to see what's in it." Say what???????

Healthcare could have been "reformed" by simply declaring it to be a public utility and regulating the costs the same way the government now does with utilities. That has worked for well over 40 years in the utility industry and would have worked here, but Obama needed more so that he could begin the process of converting us over to a single payer health care system, which has never worked.

And lastly, can anyone tell me of a single government program that has EVER accomplished its goals on time and on budget? This bill hadn't even been implemented yet when the CBO came back and said well our initial estimates were off, this bill will cost MUCH more than we originally thought.

better this bill than your idea of government price-fixing. marketized healthcare is vastly superior to that. markets have worked for well over 200 years in the united states.

that you feel this is some step toward a single payer sistem is nothing short of ignorance. that i contend that it is a logical and creative progression of our existing healthcare system - arguably the best on the planet - is supported by consideration of the HMO act of 1973, which is responsible for the nature of private care in the US. in just about every developed nation on the planet, private health industry pales in proportion to the public system.

The ignorance is on your part.

Your man is a socialist, you're either

A) An idiot if you don't acknowledge that fact

or

B) A liar for not acknowledging that fact

There is no option C.

obama is not the government. he made dissent to single payer as president. the bill has nothing to do with across the board single payer health care. then there's your ancient video.

 

[rightwinger]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

How do you pay for your health insurance, if you have it?

Here's a novel idea for you...HE'S GOT A FUCKING JOB!!!!

Interesting point

It highlights the need to rely on an employer to provide you with health insurance you can afford. What happens if you lose your job? What if you are self employed? What if your employer drops health insurance coverage?

That is why we need a Government Option

 

[ConHog]

How do you pay for your health insurance, if you have it?

Here's a novel idea for you...HE'S GOT A FUCKING JOB!!!!

Interesting point

It highlights the need to rely on an employer to provide you with health insurance you can afford. What happens if you lose your job? What if you are self employed? What if your employer drops health insurance coverage?

That is why we need a Government Option

If you lose your job, if you are self employed, or if your employee doesn't offer health care insurance, you already had an option. What you're REALLY saying is that the government should cover those who can't afford to cover themselves, and that is welfare.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

How do you pay for your health insurance, if you have it?

Here's a novel idea for you...HE'S GOT A FUCKING JOB!!!!

You know this guy?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[WOW I guess you're not paying much attention to the intent of the healthcare law. After it's passage, the CBO reported that the new health legislation would cost $115 billion more than estimated when it was enacted. When you can't pay the bills you cut back, you ration. People will be treated far worse under this law by the Governemnt then any Corperation could dream of doing.

So how will the people with NO health insurance be treated worse by the government than the corporations?

Explain how that mouthful of gibberish works.

 

[NYcarbineer]

For what? Pointing out the obvious, that insurance is private and siphoning off at least 15% of the health care dollars spent in this country for insurance executive bonuses?

Well.... I reckon it does need to be pointed out. Why would anyone cheer for 15% higher costs? Just doesn't make any sense.....

I'll thank you too! Thank you!

What is with you leftist? You are complaining about what a company does with it's money after you have given your money to them was services rendered. Who in the hell do you think you are? How would you like it if your boss said something about the way you spend your pay check, and threaten to fire you over it?

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

Insurance should be a non-profit business. Like a credit union. There is no good reason, no good served, for anyone to make profits from a basic service like insurance.

 

[ConHog]

What is with you leftist? You are complaining about what a company does with it's money after you have given your money to them was services rendered. Who in the hell do you think you are? How would you like it if your boss said something about the way you spend your pay check, and threaten to fire you over it?

What service does an insurance company provide? Do they check your oil? Look under your hood? Put a gauge on your tires? NO!

All they do is collect the money you pay in all your working life and try to figure out how not to pay claims on your behalf when you get sick or injured.

Adding insult to injury, we pay the executives bonuses in the 6 and 7 figure range for doing a better job of getting and then keeping as much of our health care budgets as they legally can!

Chumps. Every fucking one of us.

Insurance should be a non-profit business. Like a credit union. There is no good reason, no good served, for anyone to make profits from a basic service like insurance.

Are you serious? So all those people who are investing the money to start the companies shouldn't earn a profit on their investment? By the way 3.4% that is the profit margin of health insurance companies, it's not like they are raking in BILLIONS.

And I could make the argument that the oil is more of a basic service than health care insurance, maybe we should nationalize the oil industry and get rid of profit there to.....

 

[JBeukema]

Will the hand-wringing never end? The US was the only first world nation without socialized medicine.

When? Before the first public hospitals? Before Medicare?

 

[JBeukema]

Here in America no one has ever been denied Healthcare.

Even if they had no money?


So who payed for it?


Sounds pretty socialist to me, you fucking commie bastard american hating progressive liberal fasctist...

 

[JBeukema]

Police are not obligated to protect anyone.

I'll just that stupidity stand on its own

Have you ever heard of a voluntary fire department?

Yep. Usually, their tools/trucks are held in common and are property of the community

Privates schools?

so the poor shouldn't get an education?

 

[JBeukema]

Socialism you call Medicare socialism? Then I'm a socialist becuase I support Medicare.

In 2002 I suffered a heart attack

I didn't know they investigated Catholic sex abuse in 2002

 

[JBeukema]

Why does a person want to live in a socialist system? Why do they want more government control of their lives? Is it because they want handout's from the government? Do they wish to surrender their individual rights for a few scraps from the governments table of taxes? Open your eyes people just look at the new Healthcare Law, there are a lot of mandates in it, requirements to buy something that you may not need or want. Could it be that people are afraid of failure is that why they crave socialism?

How do you pay for your health insurance, if you have it?

out of my pocket.

Who pays for your treatment when you need it?