Zone1 What is Truth?

What's your religion?
I am a Christian. I've been in church since I was a toddler. I grew up saying my Easter speeches, and sining in the church choir. I've been baptized in the water three different times. Last time I was baptized in Israel in the Jordan River.

I have done extensive Bible study over the years. Mainly with an in-depth focus on the prophetic aspects of God's truth.
 
When Jesus was brought before Pilate, Pilate asked Jesus, "What is truth?".

John 18:
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Unfortunately in the Bible we do not have a record of Jesus' response. However, in these latter days, in a revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith Jesus gives us this definition:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:24
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

So how can we know that something is true or not?

Doctrine and Covenants 93 continues by saying:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:25-28
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.
26 The Spirit of truth is of God. I am the Spirit of truth, and John bore record of me, saying: He received a fulness of truth, yea, even of all truth;
27 And no man receiveth a fulness unless he keepeth his commandments.
28 He that keepeth his commandments receiveth truth and light, until he is glorified in truth and knoweth all things.

By honoring God and keeping his commandments He will bless us with the Holy Ghost in our lives and through the Holy Ghost we may know the truth of all things. This is God's method of teaching us eternal truths.

Moroni 10:5
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

Science is the truth. Or at least the science we've managed to prove, which isn't much.
 
For me you are no Catholic but a Lefebvreist - so why should I discuss what you believe? You love formalisms - I do not do so. I love life. God is life.


this is why we need a separate Catholic, Christian, Bible Study, prayer, Muslim, Buddist, Atheist, others, etc... rooms. A different room for each. We do not want to study with the atheist.

The problem is "ALWAYS" with the lost atheist. They stalk, harass, and agitate others who do believe simply because they failed to believe.

It's like this...

The atheist says: "Yo, look at me I fail in life to believe in God."
We are like: "So what, exist stage left, go sit over there, and await your entrance into hell."

We would rather not study with them at all. I know how this turns out. If the atheist get their very own room they will NOT go into it. The atheist HATE other atheist. A site I was previously on, they had an atheist room, but it remained empty so they got rid of it. The atheist only want to harass other believers. They are a parasite.
 
I am a Christian.

Then truth is always true - independent from the person who speaks out whatever form of truth, isn't it?

I've been in church since I was a toddler.

Nice.

I grew up saying my Easter speeches, and sining in the church choir. I've been baptized in the water three different times. Last time I was baptized in Israel in the Jordan River.

What a luck that you came back and did not go on to the other side over the Jordan. Was the water in the Jordan river clear?

I have done extensive Bible study over the years. Mainly with an in-depth focus on the prophetic aspects of God's truth.

"in-depth focus on the prophetic aspects of God's truth" ... sounds profound ... but indeed I don't know what this could be. It remembers me to the firefighter who crashed down with the WTC in 9/11. When he awoke in a cavity he saw a little light over him and he climbed over a lot of rubble up to this light. Then he climbed out at thje top of this mountain of rubble like an ant and was saved. As far as I know he never understood why he survived why his comrades and so many others had to die. From my point of view I have somehow the feeling it could be He survived with him and He died with all the others. But why this is so I am also not able to understand. It is what it is. A divine sign is it for sure that even in the worst catastrophe hope never should die. But what are we able to know?
 
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this is why we need a separate Catholic, Christian, Bible Study, prayer, Muslim, Buddist, Atheist, others, etc... rooms. A different room for each. We do not want to study with the atheist.

I'm sure every seeking atheist is welcome in my, our and the Catholic church. Perhaps not welcome from every single member but from our community in and with god. And I think also all seeking members from all other religions are welcome in our church. We will help everyone to find the own best of all possible ways - from the point of view of our Catholic perspectives. And we have a very wide bandwidth of perspectives.
 
...

The problem is "ALWAYS" with the lost atheist. They stalk, harass, and agitate others who do believe simply because they failed to believe.

It's like this...

The atheist says: "Yo, look at me I fail in life to believe in God."
We are like: "So what, exist stage left, go sit over there, and await your entrance into hell."

We would rather not study with them at all. I know how this turns out. If the atheist get their very own room they will NOT go into it. The atheist HATE other atheist. A site I was previously on, they had an atheist room, but it remained empty so they got rid of it. The atheist only want to harass other believers. They are a parasite.

Who is not able to believe in god is not able to believe in god. To change this needs always new ways and the help of god. But for sure exists also a lot of manmade pressure not to believe in god. For example in universities - so in places where truth should be important. Nevertheless what you say here is an indifferent hate message. Do you remember Stephen Hawking? He always had been a believer in atheism as far as I know. And he needed a lot of help. But to call such a man "parasite" is only a shame for you on your own.

This is by the way the last favorite song of Stephen Hawking. Also this song let's me hope for him and so many others.

 
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You're just playing the victim since you don't like what I'm saying.
I don't know the person you have created in your own mind that you believe you are addressing. I am not a victim, nor did I ask a victim's question. I was interested about you and the reason(s) you chose not to seek God. For example, I am a substitute teacher and I am often asked, "Why not become a credentialed teacher?" Do you think my responses is to whine, "Why are you playing the victim? Why don't you like what I am saying?"

Get rid of the person you created in your own mind. Address the person who is curious about why you did not seek God. Or don't respond at all.
Again, define what you mean by God or seeking God. God comes in many different forms and "flavors". I clearly defined what I would consider "God", if I were to accept theism. It wouldn't be the God of Christianity or any of the religions that define God as an all-powerful, heavenly-rich Dad who makes demands under threat of eternal damnation and torture. I see such images of God as man-made, conjured up by the human imagination. If anyone is insulting or blaspheming God, it's not me, it's those who create God in their own petty, corrupt image.
How can my definition of God possibly be pertinent to why another chooses--or chooses not--to seek God? I know nothing about you, and it seems I am unlikely to learn anything past that. I'll use my brother-in-law as an example. His response to why not seek God is that he felt he could grasp Buddhism better, and those philosophies matched better what he wanted/expected from this life. It never crossed his mind to view me as a victim, and it astonishes me that a simple question to you has you forming that conclusion.

Anyway, never mind. I seem to have touched a sore spot I wasn't even aware was there. Peace.
 
I don't know the person you have created in your own mind that you believe you are addressing. I am not a victim, nor did I ask a victim's question. I was interested about you and the reason(s) you chose not to seek God. For example, I am a substitute teacher and I am often asked, "Why not become a credentialed teacher?" Do you think my responses is to whine, "Why are you playing the victim? Why don't you like what I am saying?"

Get rid of the person you created in your own mind. Address the person who is curious about why you did not seek God. Or don't respond at all.

How can my definition of God possibly be pertinent to why another chooses--or chooses not--to seek God? I know nothing about you, and it seems I am unlikely to learn anything past that. I'll use my brother-in-law as an example. His response to why not seek God is that he felt he could grasp Buddhism better, and those philosophies matched better what he wanted/expected from this life. It never crossed his mind to view me as a victim, and it astonishes me that a simple question to you has you forming that conclusion.

Anyway, never mind. I seem to have touched a sore spot I wasn't even aware was there. Peace.
Again, define what you mean by "seek God"?

I have my conscience, and I sense the light of life and truth within me. What is godly or good, are those conditions and patterns of thought and behavior that constructively contribute to the survival and evolution of life. For me, "God" is godliness, it's a state of being, a set of values, and a course of action that affirms and supports the order of life.
 
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Again, define what you mean by "seek God"?
And again...seek God in the same way you seek anything else. I figured this out as a toddler, so certainly an adult should be able to do this. Did you never play Hide and Go Seek or Find the Thimble? Button, Button, who has the Button? The prophet, Elijah, recommended seeking God in what is small, the tiniest whisper even.
 
I have my conscience, and I sense the light of life and truth within me. What is godly or good, are those conditions and patterns of thought and behavior that constructively contribute to the survival and evolution of life. For me, "God" is godliness, it's a state of being, a set of values, and a course of action that affirms and supports the order of life.
Then you don't see God as a separate identity, as a being in his own right?
 
For me you are no Catholic but a Lefebvreist - so why should I discuss what you believe? You love formalisms - I do not do so. I love life. God is life.


If you loved life you wouldn’t continue bearing false witness against me. I think you love yourself.
 
Then you don't see God as a separate identity, as a being in his own right?
And again...seek God in the same way you seek anything else. I figured this out as a toddler, so certainly an adult should be able to do this. Did you never play Hide and Go Seek or Find the Thimble? Button, Button, who has the Button? The prophet, Elijah, recommended seeking God in what is small, the tiniest whisper even.

As a toddler, you were seeking things not abstractions or theories. Does your god, who is a thing to be sought by toddlers, in a game of hide and seek, live here in space and time? Where and how are you seeking this God, which you equate to some object or thing sought in a game of hide and seek by a toddler?

"God" is reality itself, which includes the state of consciousness and personal identity, in the form of sentient beings like you and me. We're all part of God, because we are real, actualized beings, not just mere potentials or potential beings. God is the state of being alive and the space-time continuum within which life exists and eventually expands throughout the universe. Mind you, some beings are much more advanced and powerful than we are. They're "gods".
 
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If you loved life you wouldn’t continue bearing false witness against me.

Which "false witness", Lefvebreist. You said Vaticanum II is unimportant. I call such people "Lefebvreists" because with this absurde French bishop such stupid messages became popular. "For me you are a Lefebvreist" is no false witness. And by the way: You work on your own with defaming propaganda methods which are well known from enemies of the holy church.

I think you love yourself.

Your are right. I love myselve. Sometimes I forget to be good to me on my own - then I speak with you.

 
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Science is the truth. Or at least the science we've managed to prove, which isn't much.
I believe the definition of truth given by God is absolutely correct.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:24
24 And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;

What this means to me is that truth is a knowledge of things as they actually are, were, and are to come in reality. Anything outside of how things actually are, were, and are to come in reality is a lie.

Science is a means of finding out truth if applied honestly. Science itself is not actual truth. It is not science that we prove but the use of science to prove what actually is, was, or is to come. Science is simply a method of trying to determine what is true.
 
As a toddler, you were seeking things not abstractions or theories. Does your god, who is a thing to be sought by toddlers, in a game of hide and seek, live here in space and time? Where and how are you seeking this God, which you equate to some object or thing sought in a game of hide and seek by a toddler?

"God" is reality itself, which includes the state of consciousness and personal identity, in the form of sentient beings like you and me. We're all part of God, because we are real, actualized beings, not just mere potentials or potential beings. God is the state of being alive and the space-time continuum within which life exists and eventually expands throughout the universe. Mind you, some beings are much more advanced and powerful than we are. They're "gods".
God has been described as a God of silence. Even as a toddler I listened to the Baltimore Catechism as it was being taught to my older brother. Who made me? God made me. Why did God make me? God made me to know him, love him, and serve him. My own introduction to God outside of church and bits of catechism was via Little Golden Books telling Biblical stories where God appeared/spoke to people. I told my parents that was what I wanted--for God to speak to me. They thought that was cute and smilingly advised me that God didn't do that any more. I said nothing about this to them, but I told God if he did it before, he could very well do it again for me. I was ten when he did...so it didn't happen overnight. And it happened when--in my 10-year-old way--I was trying to serve him.

Being good is not being God. We are a part of God's creation, but that is not the same as being God. Another thing I have reflected upon that as a child, I didn't have any feelings of needing God or wanting anything from him. I just wanted to meet him, to know him. As a little kid it didn't seem right to go meet someone because you wanted something from them. That may be something we lose as adults.
 
Which "false witness", Lefvebreist. You said Vaticanum II is unimportant. I call such people "Lefebvreists" because with this absurde French bishop such stupid messages became popular. "For me you are a Lefebvreist" is no false witness. And by the way: You work on your own with defaming propaganda methods which are well known from enemies of the holy church.



Your are right. I love myselve. Sometimes I forget to be good to me on my own - then I speak with you.


Keep bearing false witness.
 
God has been described as a God of silence. Even as a toddler I listened to the Baltimore Catechism as it was being taught to my older brother. Who made me? God made me. Why did God make me? God made me to know him, love him, and serve him. My own introduction to God outside of church and bits of catechism was via Little Golden Books telling Biblical stories where God appeared/spoke to people. I told my parents that was what I wanted--for God to speak to me. They thought that was cute and smilingly advised me that God didn't do that any more. I said nothing about this to them, but I told God if he did it before, he could very well do it again for me. I was ten when he did...so it didn't happen overnight. And it happened when--in my 10-year-old way--I was trying to serve him.

Being good is not being God. We are a part of God's creation, but that is not the same as being God. Another thing I have reflected upon that as a child, I didn't have any feelings of needing God or wanting anything from him. I just wanted to meet him, to know him. As a little kid it didn't seem right to go meet someone because you wanted something from them. That may be something we lose as adults.

God has been described as a God of silence.

If the personal God that you believe in is silent, transcendent, and imminently invisible as in close but imperceptible to our five senses, then "seeking God" shouldn't be equated to the search for anything or anyone perceptible to our senses. Your claims are insensible, if not ridiculous. But of course, it's your typical, bitter, disingenuous, religious claptrap-gobbledygook. The Meriweather we all expect.

Even as a toddler I listened to the Baltimore Catechism as it was being taught to my older brother. Who made me? God made me. Why did God make me? God made me to know him, love him, and serve him. My own introduction to God outside of church and bits of catechism was via Little Golden Books telling Biblical stories where God appeared/spoke to people. I told my parents that was what I wanted--for God to speak to me. They thought that was cute and smilingly advised me that God didn't do that any more. I said nothing about this to them, but I told God if he did it before, he could very well do it again for me. I was ten when he did...so it didn't happen overnight. And it happened when--in my 10-year-old way--I was trying to serve him.


If you want to believe you're talking to God, that's your prerogative. I believe you're creating this personal God in your head based upon the information you extracted from your Roman Catholic religion and unfortunately, you're confusing that with reality.

Perhaps you're also being manipulated by other "invisible beings", which aren't God, but they like it when humans are superstitious and stop thinking critically because it serves their interests. Humans are stuck on Earth waiting for a superhero i.e. "messiah-god" to return and save them, rather than doing the work that will redeem them from the encroaching chaos i.e. "entropy", of a material universe.

Perhaps these invisible entities (i.e. ETs, UTs/Ultra-terrestrials/Interdimensional entities or "spirits"..etc), feed off of our fears, feelings, and dreams (like vampires) and keep us from exploring and colonizing space (We're their cattle). Keeping the earthly wildlife where it belongs, on Earth and not causing strife throughout the galaxy (they exploit us here, keeping us religious and deluded). Have you watched the news lately? A bunch of high-tech, intelligent, uncivilized bald apes. We make the "Klingons" look civilized and angelic.


Being good is not being God.

I never implied that an individual is GOD or "Everything that exists", when they're godly or good. That's your cheap polemic and strawman argument.

We are a part of God's creation, but that is not the same as being God.

If I were to have a "God", that God would be all-encompassing and nothing would exist "outside" of it. There's no "outside" or "inside" of an infinite God, because reality itself with all of its innumerable conditions and states, is itself that ultimate reality or "infinite God" (God is The Eternal All).

Nonetheless, nothing that exists amounts to God as an individual. So I recognize that although I am part and parcel of God (The Eternal, Infinite Reality), I as an individual, don't amount to God. God is infinitely greater and more than me. I am just a tiny, micro-cosmic expression of that eternal, infinite ALL i.e. God.

For example, I will use the analogy of my body, with its trillions of cells. I am comprised of a community of trillions of individual, living cells. When those cells unite in the form of the human organism, what emerges is a human being and consciousness. I as a human being, amount to much more than just one individual cell. That one cell, contains my DNA, and from that cell, potentially, another human being could be created provided the means to do it (namely technology), were available. But, I am not just one cell, I am much greater than that.

God is infinitely greater than little me, but nevertheless, I am part and parcel of that infinite reality that is GOD. That one individual cell in my body could say "I am part of John Smith, because I am connected to him, as a member of his body". I am part of reality, and God is reality itself. The very state of being alive and conscious is itself God.

The laws of physics = God. The space-time continuum = God. The universe itself = God. EVERYTHING as a whole = GOD. The smile of an infant in his mother's arms = God, the courageous act of a soldier or marine, jumping on that grenade to save his brothers and sisters in arms = God. God is uniquely and primarily present in every godly, noble act.

I believe, that if there is a God, then we are all connected to that God and each other, irrespective of whatever religious dogma we've been conditioned to believe in. Religion is a human construct, it's just a mental and social framework, through which the principles of life, the divine, cosmic law that is written upon our hearts is expressed. Some religions are better than others in equipping their adherents to realize that divine law and spark, that is already within them.


Another thing I have reflected upon that as a child, I didn't have any feelings of needing God or wanting anything from him. I just wanted to meet him, to know him. As a little kid it didn't seem right to go meet someone because you wanted something from them. That may be something we lose as adults.

I owe it to myself and to my fellow human beings and even non-human sentient life as well, to be as godly or civil and thoughtful, as I can. I fail sometimes, but that's the directive and goal. To be good, even if there's no life after death, and this life is all I have, I will place this life on the altar of empathy, solidarity, civility, essentially all that is noble and good. I choose to be good, despite the horrors of life in a material universe that is trying to kill me.
 
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If the personal God that you believe in is silent, transcendent, and imminently invisible as in close but imperceptible to our five senses, then "seeking God" shouldn't be equated to the search for anything or anyone perceptible to our senses. Your claims are insensible, if not ridiculous. But of course, it's your typical, bitter, disingenuous, religious claptrap-gobbledygook. The Meriweather we all expect.




If you want to believe you're talking to God, that's your prerogative. I believe you're creating this personal God being in your head based upon the information you extracted from your Roman Catholic religion and unfortunately, you're confusing that with reality.

Perhaps you're also being manipulated by other "invisible beings", which aren't God, but they like it when humans are superstitious and stop thinking critically because it serves their interests. Humans are stuck on Earth waiting for a superhero i.e. "messiah-god" to return and save them, rather than doing the work that will redeem them from the encroaching chaos i.e. "entropy", of a material universe.

Perhaps these invisible entities (i.e. ETs, UTs/Ultra-terrestrials/Interdimensional entities or "spirits"..etc), feed off of our fears, feelings, and dreams (like vampires) and keep us from exploring and colonizing space (We're their cattle). Keeping the earthly wildlife where it belongs, on Earth and not causing strife throughout the galaxy (they exploit us here, keeping us religious and deluded). Have you watched the news lately? A bunch of high-tech, intelligent, uncivilized bald apes. We make the "Klingons" look civilized and angelic.



I never implied that an individual is GOD or "Everything that exists", when they're godly or good. That's your cheap polemic and strawman argument.



If I were to have a "God", that God would be all-encompassing and nothing would exist "outside" of it. There's no "outside" or "inside" of an infinite God, because reality itself with all of its innumerable conditions and states, is itself that ultimate reality or "infinite God" (God is The Eternal All).

Nonetheless, nothing that exists amounts to God as an individual. So I recognize that although I am part and parcel of God (The Eternal, Infinite Reality), I as an individual, don't amount to God. God is infinitely greater and more than me. I am just a tiny, micro-cosmic expression of that eternal, infinite ALL i.e. God.

For example, I will use the analogy of my body, with its trillions of cells. I am comprised of a community of trillions of individual, living cells. When those cells unite in the form of the human organism, what emerges is a human being and consciousness. I as a human being, amount to much more than just one individual cell. That one cell, contains my DNA, and from that cell, potentially, another human being could be created provided the means to do it (namely technology), were available. But, I am not just one cell, I am much greater than that.

God is infinitely greater than little me, but nevertheless, I am part and parcel of that infinite reality that is GOD. That one individual cell in my body could say "I am part of John Smith, because I am connected to him, as a member of his body". I am part of reality, and God is reality itself. The very state of being alive and conscious is itself God.

The laws of physics = God. The space-time continuum = God. The universe itself = God. EVERYTHING as a whole = GOD. The smile of an infant in his mother's arms = God, the courageous act of a soldier or marine, jumping on that grenade to save his brothers and sisters in arms = God. God is uniquely and primarily present in every godly, noble act.

I believe, that if there is a God, then we are all connected to that God and each other, irrespective of whatever religious dogma we've been conditioned to believe in. Religion is a human construct, it's just a mental and social framework, through which the principles of life, the divine, cosmic law that is written upon our hearts is expressed. Some religions are better than others in equipping their adherents to realize that divine law and spark, that is already within them.




I owe it to myself and to my fellow human beings and even non-human sentient life as well, to be as godly or civil and thoughtful, as I can. I fail sometimes, but that's the directive and goal. To be good, even if there's no life after death, and this life is all I have, I will place this life on the altar of empathy, solidarity, civility, essentially all that is noble and good. I choose to be good, despite the horrors of life in a material universe that is trying to kill me.
Sounds like you are a pantheist.

The painter is not the painting.
 
When asking for a definition of 'the Truth' one must first provide parameters. Example: Saying 'I did not steal that thing' when that exact same thing you took is in your possession, is NOT truth.
 
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