It ain't Nirvana.This is just a philosophical question. Is there a goal for capitalism at all? Is it to maximize personal liberty or production? or is it to maximize well being?
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It ain't Nirvana.This is just a philosophical question. Is there a goal for capitalism at all? Is it to maximize personal liberty or production? or is it to maximize well being?
The exploiter shouldn't own the means of production
But he does. So how much of the surplus does he deserve?
The people who work in the enterprise should own it together and elect their managers.
They currently don't own all the capital of the business, the employer does.
Based on the investment of all that capital, how much of the surplus does he deserve?
But he does. So how much of the surplus does he deserve?
They currently don't own all the capital of the business, the employer does. Based on the investment of all that capital, how much of the surplus does he deserve?
He doesn't "deserve", or should be entitled to exploit his workers, in any way. You have to modify the question, into a more complex, nuanced question, which may take a short description. Todd could ask:
"The defacto situation under capitalism is that the capitalist class owns the means of production and the working class has to sell their labor power to them for a wage, in order to survive. In view of that reality, how much of the surplus value of their labor, should the working class allow the capitalists to take?"
My answer is:
Under communism, onlyHe doesn't "deserve", or should be entitled to exploit his workers, in any way.
His factory, his equipment, his raw materials etc.
The worker doesn't create his "surplus value" in a vacuum.
So how much of the "surplus value" does the employer deserve to
earn a return on all his investment?
Try to give a straight answer without thousands of extra words of commie pap.
If you don't understand my answer, too bad. Not my fault. Here:He doesn't "deserve", or should be entitled to exploit his workers, in any way.
His factory, his equipment, his raw materials etc.
The worker doesn't create his "surplus value" in a vacuum.
So how much of the "surplus value" does the employer deserve to
earn a return on all his investment?
Try to give a straight answer without thousands of extra words of commie pap.
Capitalists prefer minority rule. The "masters" want everything for themselves.Ultimately, capitalism vs communism comes to down to an appraisal of the value and applicability of "democracy". Communists want every-damned-thing to be subject to majority rule. Capitalists prefer freedom.
If you don't understand my answer, too bad. Not my fault.
Capitalists prefer minority rule. The "masters" want everything for themselves.
Not everything.
You can have "value", but they want all the "surplus value".
Your whining shows your ignorance of economics and the real world.
If the workers want to get all the "surplus value", they're free to buy the
company from the current owner. Or start their own.
Be careful, they'll probably have to borrow from an evil bank to do that.
You want them to use all that invested capital for free.
You sound like a petulant teenager, stomping your foot while crying, UNFAIR!!!!
With tears and snot running down your face.
They deserve nothing of the output of what is produced because they shouldn't own the means of production in the first place. The fact that the plutocratic government that they control grants them such a right, doesn't make it correct. Those who work in the enterprise should own it collectively.
No need to buy anything from anyone or launch a little capitalist dictatorship a.k.a. business enterprise. Capitalists don't have the right to own the means of production or exploit and commodify human labor for profit.
The working class should own the means of production collectively and strip capitalists of their ability to exploit human beings for profit and control government policy. As a society, we should discard capitalism as our mode of production and adopt a non-profit, highly computerized, automated, centrally planned system of production. Politically we should also move towards a bottom-up, council democracy, comprised of people's councils. This new government will employ the latest technology, allowing the public to easily and effectively participate in the political process.
You or your progeny will be waking up in the near future, guaranteed...Capitalists don't have the right to own the means of production or exploit and commodify human labor for profit.
And then you woke up, swearing to never do drugs again.
they shouldn't own the means of production in the first place.
Shouldn't? LOL!
You're free to buy your own means of production here in the US,
not like in the USSR where they would execute you if you tried to do such a thing.
But instead of exercising that right and then giving your employees all the value
they produce, you whine like a little bitch.
Those who work in the enterprise should own it collectively.
Get all your little whiney bitch friends together and do it.
Those who work the productive enterprise should own it collectively and run it democratically. All leadership, whether in politics or in the workplace, should be elected or appointed by those who are elected.
So do it. Instead of whining like a little bitch failure.
Another false dichotomy. Lack of majority rule isn't minority rule. It's just lack of rule. Liberty. Something socialists find abhorrent because they are, essentially, authoritarians. They just excuse their zeal for totalitarian government by leaning on democracy, as though that makes it okay. It doesn't.Capitalists prefer minority rule. The "masters" want everything for themselves.
You want minority rule and we want the rule of the majority. You hate democracy, the rule of the people, because you want a plutocracy, where the vested interests of the rich rule, at the expense of the public. You love tyranny in government and in the workplace. Capitalist authoritarian rule is what you want.Another false dichotomy. Lack of majority rule isn't minority rule. It's just lack of rule. Liberty. Something socialists find abhorrent because they are, essentially, authoritarians. They just excuse their zeal for totalitarian government by leaning on democracy, as though that makes it okay. It doesn't.