What IS The Free Market

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. Available credit has become the new saving account balance.

too stupid and liberal. 1) You don't credit unless you can pay it off 2) credit debt is way down since recession 3) Chinese earn 20% of what we earn yet save more per capita

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The problem is that without money to do things we like to do which is where most people are at they loose drive to create

dear people have more money than ever. That's why they can stand in line in the millions to buy the iphone technological marvel toys at $130/month

you choose what you want to see. don't forget though a lot of those phones are being paid for with our tax dollars or with a credit card that will charge high interest. Most people do not know how to live within their means anymore. It is really no ones fault but their own but we do live in a manipulative society that screams, GO spend the money you don't have. Minds are very easily and heavily persuaded so the extremely wealthy get wealthier. Instead of trying to instill conservation, society does the opposite.

dear, the issue is liberal or conservative and why? You are talking gibberish above.

 

[TC_Triple3]

[/QUOTE]
Well that is the problem... People only do what interests them. It seems like their main interest is solely in making money. When people are so blinded by money and profits they tend to forget about relationships and the well being of others. Hence the reason our society has become so litigious. Now I will never claim to know the percentage of people who only care about money and profits but it seems to be high.[/QUOTE]

Everyone always acts in their own self interest, and it's this very same self interest that makes a market economy possible. Is it in your own self interest to become a Robinson Crusoe? Or is it in your best interest to cooperate with others who are better at doing, or producing something than you are? Leaving you to do something that they need or want someone else to do? Comparative Advantage at work.

The problems you are talking about occur when businesses, or entire industry sectors, have guaranteed market share, or a competitive advantage courtesy of the State. The welfare of your employees isn't as important as it is for a business in a highly competitive market with razor thin margins. Now, that is not to say that all managers in these types of businesses are ALL scumbags, but you tend to get the creme of the crap, rather than the creme of the crop. Profit margin becomes the end all be all.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Well that is the problem... People only do what interests them. It seems like their main interest is solely in making money. When people are so blinded by money and profits they tend to forget about relationships and the well being of others. Hence the reason our society has become so litigious. Now I will never claim to know the percentage of people who only care about money and profits but it seems to be high.
Everyone always acts in their own self interest, and it's this very same self interest that makes a market economy possible. Is it in your own self interest to become a Robinson Crusoe? Or is it in your best interest to cooperate with others who are better at doing, or producing something than you are? Leaving you to do something that they need or want someone else to do? Comparative Advantage at work.

The problems you are talking about occur when businesses, or entire industry sectors, have guaranteed market share, or a competitive advantage courtesy of the State. The welfare of your employees isn't as important as it is for a business in a highly competitive market with razor thin margins. Now, that is not to say that all managers in these types of businesses are ALL scumbags, but you tend to get the creme of the crap, rather than the creme of the crop. Profit margin becomes the end all be all.

dear, what is your point if you know it???

 

[TC_Triple3]

. Available credit has become the new saving account balance.

too stupid and liberal. 1) You don't credit unless you can pay it off 2) credit debt is way down since recession 3) Chinese earn 20% of what we earn yet save more per capita

You don't use credit unless you can pay it off? ROFL! I guess credit defaults are imaginary just like unicorns. This is true for sensible people, but unfortunately there are plenty who are not and proceed to default on their debts.

I'm talking about Americans. So what if the Chinese save money. The Japanese do too, what's your point? Do the Chinese have the same level (as a ratio of income) of personal credit available as Americans? No. Does China have a ZIRP policy making saving money a losing proposition?

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

 

[TC_Triple3]

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

Do you care to try again?

Consumer Credit Total Outstanding (in billions of dollars)

2010 $2647.4
2011 $2755.9
2012 $2923.6
2013 $3097.9
2014 $3316.3

FRB G.19 Release-- Consumer Credit

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

Do you care to try again?

Consumer Credit Total Outstanding (in billions of dollars)

2010 $2647.4
2011 $2755.9
2012 $2923.6
2013 $3097.9
2014 $3316.3

FRB G.19 Release-- Consumer Credit

Credit card debt dove -- along with consumer spending -- during the 2008 financial crisis and slow growth has kept total revolving debt at pre-crisis levels, though it is creeping up. According to figures from the Federal Reserve, total U.S. outstanding consumer debt was $3.33 trillion as of January 2015.1 That figure includes car loans, student loans and revolving debt, but not mortgages. Total U.S. outstanding revolving debt, which is chiefly made up of credit card balances, was $887.9 billion as of January 2015.1

Read more: Credit card debt statistics
Follow us: @CreditCardsCom on Twitter | CreditCards.com on Facebook
Compare credit cards here - CreditCards.com

but so what?? what is your point or conclusion??? Do you have any idea??

 

[TC_Triple3]

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

Do you care to try again?

Consumer Credit Total Outstanding (in billions of dollars)

2010 $2647.4
2011 $2755.9
2012 $2923.6
2013 $3097.9
2014 $3316.3

FRB G.19 Release-- Consumer Credit

Credit card debt dove -- along with consumer spending -- during the 2008 financial crisis and slow growth has kept total revolving debt at pre-crisis levels, though it is creeping up. According to figures from the Federal Reserve, total U.S. outstanding consumer debt was $3.33 trillion as of January 2015.1 That figure includes car loans, student loans and revolving debt, but not mortgages. Total U.S. outstanding revolving debt, which is chiefly made up of credit card balances, was $887.9 billion as of January 2015.1

Read more: Credit card debt statistics
Follow us: @CreditCardsCom on Twitter | CreditCards.com on Facebook
Compare credit cards here - CreditCards.com

but so what?? what is your point or conclusion??? Do you have any idea??

Credit debt dove after the crisis due to defaults, not frugality, and it's on the rise. Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it or not people view their available credit in the same vain as people used to view savings. People plan larger purchases around available credit rather than money on hand.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

Do you care to try again?

Consumer Credit Total Outstanding (in billions of dollars)

2010 $2647.4
2011 $2755.9
2012 $2923.6
2013 $3097.9
2014 $3316.3

FRB G.19 Release-- Consumer Credit

Credit card debt dove -- along with consumer spending -- during the 2008 financial crisis and slow growth has kept total revolving debt at pre-crisis levels, though it is creeping up. According to figures from the Federal Reserve, total U.S. outstanding consumer debt was $3.33 trillion as of January 2015.1 That figure includes car loans, student loans and revolving debt, but not mortgages. Total U.S. outstanding revolving debt, which is chiefly made up of credit card balances, was $887.9 billion as of January 2015.1

Read more: Credit card debt statistics
Follow us: @CreditCardsCom on Twitter | CreditCards.com on Facebook
Compare credit cards here - CreditCards.com

but so what?? what is your point or conclusion??? Do you have any idea??

Credit debt dove after the crisis due to defaults, not frugality, and it's on the rise. Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it or not people view their available credit in the same vain as people used to view savings. People plan larger purchases around available credit rather than money on hand.

and your point is??

 

[dblack]

Not much to argue about any of that. You are obviously one who does really care and you sound much like my bosses/owners.

My last statement is somewhat contradictory. They have all the statistics about how much people make, pay their employees, and all the information they need about people so I understand why they need to step in and take control in areas. Not everyone is like you, that know how to make the good, honest, well informed decisions.

Better answer, the market keeps them in check. They fail. Government need do nothing

Yes and no. I think there is a huge offset of wealth in this country due to outsourcing and greed.

I don't see why wealth disparity is, necessarily, a bad thing. Likewise, greed - or more generally desire - isn't necessarily bad. What makes it bad or good is what people do in pursuit of their desire. You'll find plenty of support among libertarians and conservatives if you want to go after corrupt people who make money through fraud and deceit, but I haven't heard a good argument for why wealth is inherently a bad thing.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Yes and no. I think there is a huge offset of wealth in this country due to outsourcing and greed..

capitalism prevents greed!! if a guy is too greed a competitor can undersell him and drive him into bankruptcy

Do you understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I haven't heard a good argument for why wealth is inherently a bad thing.

a liberal assumes its a zero sum game,i.e, if one has it the other doesn't. Its absurd but thats the basic nature of liberalism

 

[TC_Triple3]

Credit debt might be down, I haven't looked at the current figure, but it's not WAY DOWN.

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

Do you care to try again?

Consumer Credit Total Outstanding (in billions of dollars)

2010 $2647.4
2011 $2755.9
2012 $2923.6
2013 $3097.9
2014 $3316.3

FRB G.19 Release-- Consumer Credit

Credit card debt dove -- along with consumer spending -- during the 2008 financial crisis and slow growth has kept total revolving debt at pre-crisis levels, though it is creeping up. According to figures from the Federal Reserve, total U.S. outstanding consumer debt was $3.33 trillion as of January 2015.1 That figure includes car loans, student loans and revolving debt, but not mortgages. Total U.S. outstanding revolving debt, which is chiefly made up of credit card balances, was $887.9 billion as of January 2015.1

Read more: Credit card debt statistics
Follow us: @CreditCardsCom on Twitter | CreditCards.com on Facebook
Compare credit cards here - CreditCards.com

but so what?? what is your point or conclusion??? Do you have any idea??

Credit debt dove after the crisis due to defaults, not frugality, and it's on the rise. Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it or not people view their available credit in the same vain as people used to view savings. People plan larger purchases around available credit rather than money on hand.

and your point is??

That the use of credit instead of cash alters value choices, the same as it was in my first post on credit debt.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

its down about 20% since recession began. But so what?? Do you know what point yo are trying to make? Please tell us?

Do you care to try again?

Consumer Credit Total Outstanding (in billions of dollars)

2010 $2647.4
2011 $2755.9
2012 $2923.6
2013 $3097.9
2014 $3316.3

FRB G.19 Release-- Consumer Credit

Credit card debt dove -- along with consumer spending -- during the 2008 financial crisis and slow growth has kept total revolving debt at pre-crisis levels, though it is creeping up. According to figures from the Federal Reserve, total U.S. outstanding consumer debt was $3.33 trillion as of January 2015.1 That figure includes car loans, student loans and revolving debt, but not mortgages. Total U.S. outstanding revolving debt, which is chiefly made up of credit card balances, was $887.9 billion as of January 2015.1

Read more: Credit card debt statistics
Follow us: @CreditCardsCom on Twitter | CreditCards.com on Facebook
Compare credit cards here - CreditCards.com

but so what?? what is your point or conclusion??? Do you have any idea??

Credit debt dove after the crisis due to defaults, not frugality, and it's on the rise. Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it or not people view their available credit in the same vain as people used to view savings. People plan larger purchases around available credit rather than money on hand.

and your point is??

That the use of credit instead of cash alters value choices, the same as it was in my first post on credit debt.

so what??? it alters value choices, and????? Do you have aay idea where you are going with this trivia???

 

[rickm19]

Well that is the problem... People only do what interests them. It seems like their main interest is solely in making money. When people are so blinded by money and profits they tend to forget about relationships and the well being of others. Hence the reason our society has become so litigious. Now I will never claim to know the percentage of people who only care about money and profits but it seems to be high.[/QUOTE]

Everyone always acts in their own self interest, and it's this very same self interest that makes a market economy possible. Is it in your own self interest to become a Robinson Crusoe? Or is it in your best interest to cooperate with others who are better at doing, or producing something than you are? Leaving you to do something that they need or want someone else to do? Comparative Advantage at work.

The problems you are talking about occur when businesses, or entire industry sectors, have guaranteed market share, or a competitive advantage courtesy of the State. The welfare of your employees isn't as important as it is for a business in a highly competitive market with razor thin margins. Now, that is not to say that all managers in these types of businesses are ALL scumbags, but you tend to get the creme of the crap, rather than the creme of the crop. Profit margin becomes the end all be all.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. I think there is a huge offset of wealth in this country due to outsourcing and greed..

capitalism prevents greed!! if a guy is too greed a competitor can undersell him and drive him into bankruptcy

Do you understand?

Oh I understand that just fine when there is plenty of competition. But when the competition is minimal what prevents those few from setting there own prices while making it look like they are being competitive when really they just have mutual agreements so they can make whatever they want. Say electric and oil companies for example. Or companies that hold patent rights for certain products. Don't talk to me like i'm a kid... Competition is what prevents greed not capitalism. Really though nothing prevents greed other than moral obligations to do what is true and honest.

 

[rickm19]

Not much to argue about any of that. You are obviously one who does really care and you sound much like my bosses/owners.

My last statement is somewhat contradictory. They have all the statistics about how much people make, pay their employees, and all the information they need about people so I understand why they need to step in and take control in areas. Not everyone is like you, that know how to make the good, honest, well informed decisions.

Better answer, the market keeps them in check. They fail. Government need do nothing

Yes and no. I think there is a huge offset of wealth in this country due to outsourcing and greed.

I don't see why wealth disparity is, necessarily, a bad thing. Likewise, greed - or more generally desire - isn't necessarily bad. What makes it bad or good is what people do in pursuit of their desire. You'll find plenty of support among libertarians and conservatives if you want to go after corrupt people who make money through fraud and deceit, but I haven't heard a good argument for why wealth is inherently a bad thing.

Well wealth disparity can hold people back. No money to obtain materials necessary to experiment and create, no money to enjoy life and do the things that make them happy. Im not saying being wealthy is inherently bad. But the ones that horde the wealth and have an abundance of it can be. Of course wealth come in different forms. But for the ones who own 20 million dollar houses and waste valuable commodities, suck up and waste energy and fuel. When that is being done it drives up the price for all.. That is when it is bad.

 

[rickm19]

I haven't heard a good argument for why wealth is inherently a bad thing.

a liberal assumes its a zero sum game,i.e, if one has it the other doesn't. Its absurd but thats the basic nature of liberalism

Not necessarily true. I understand gains come from hard work, dedication, loyalty, knowledge, and common sense and just because one gains does not mean another looses. I mean hell we print more money and go further in debt everyday just to try and make sure that does not happen. But obviously that is not the best solution either.

 

[ralfy]

If 'central planning' means planning done by government - it's not capitalism.

State capitalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Interesting. I don't generally see the word used that way. I suppose that's a good way to describe where China seems to be headed. Though I certainly wouldn't call that kind of economy a "free market".

There are different types of capitalism:

Capitalism - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

with mixed economies usually in place.

 

[ralfy]

Wrong. Central planning and capitalism are mutually exclusive.

Not if capitalist plan and allocate materials wisely, instead of just doing whatever makes them the most money.

If 'central planning' means planning done by government - it's not capitalism.

Central planning can only be done by government because only government can use force to make you do things that are not in your interest. Central planning is only necessary to force individuals to do thing that are not in their personal interest for the good of the whole, the good of the whole of course meaning for the good of politicians and bureaucrats

Variants can involve mercantilism, corporate capitalism, crony capitalism, and others, especially when governments work for large corporations.