What is so TERRIBLE about voter ID?

[Jackson]

Forget racism. I just want to know WHY blacks don't supposedly have ID's.

You can go to your local DMV and get one for a couple bucks, a SS card, and a birth certificate. Why wouldn't a black American have those simple things?

I think that is just the Democrat mantra to create a racist fuss. Like I said, I think Clementine nailed it and the only ones without the documents are the illegals.

 

[ginscpy]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

What do people do if they misplace their purse on election day?

I misspoke in my orig post. In vote by-mail- states - they check your signature on the ballot outer ENVELOPE (not on the ballot itself) -so your vote is still anonymous.

 

[Amelia]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

What do people do if they misplace their purse on election day?

I misspoke in my orig post. In vote by-mail- states - they check your signature on the ballot outer ENVELOPE (not on the ballot itself) -so your vote is still anonymous.

So if you misplace your purse on election day you go get a mail-in ballot from someone?

 

[ladyliberal]

(U.S. blocks S.C. voter ID law - SC Politics Today - TheState.com)

Point: Voter ID laws are harmless.

Counterpoint: Voter ID laws discriminate against identifiable populations and create a distortionary effect in the political process.

Point: Voter ID laws are necessary to control voter fraud

Counterpoint: Voter fraud of the type which Voter ID may prevent is very rare and does not create a measurable distortionary effect.

Point: Voter ID does not discriminate against, eg, African Americans.

Counterpoint: Voter ID creates a greater average burden against voting for African Americans than for European Americans due to disparities in ID possession (see letter above).

Point: ID is necessary to do many specific things, and so should be necessary to vote.

Counterpoint: Voting is a constitutional right, sometimes called a fundamental right necessary to secure other rights. Of the many rights in the Bill of Rights, all but one must be granted to individuals even without ID.

(I'm taking the "Counterpoint" side.)

 

[Jackson]

(U.S. blocks S.C. voter ID law - SC Politics Today - TheState.com)

Point: Voter ID laws are harmless.

Counterpoint: Voter ID laws discriminate against identifiable populations and create a distortionary effect in the political process.

Point: Voter ID laws are necessary to control voter fraud

Counterpoint: Voter fraud of the type which Voter ID may prevent is very rare and does not create a measurable distortionary effect.

Point: Voter ID does not discriminate against, eg, African Americans.

Counterpoint: Voter ID creates a greater average burden against voting for African Americans than for European Americans due to disparities in ID possession (see letter above).

Point: ID is necessary to do many specific things, and so should be necessary to vote.

Counterpoint: Voting is a constitutional right, sometimes called a fundamental right necessary to secure other rights. Of the many rights in the Bill of Rights, all but one must be granted to individuals even without ID.

(I'm taking the "Counterpoint" side.)

I'm taking the "point" side. To me, it's common sense to preserve our most valuable right from fraud.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

1) It costs money. WHy with 8% unemployment do we want to waste billions of dollars?
2) There is no voter fraud problem in the past e haves there have only been 70 case of voter fraud, however in just 2008 alone 5 million voters showed up to the polls and could not vote because they did not have the right ID.

 

[g5000]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

You have never actually voted, have you. I can tell.

 

[ginscpy]

What do people do if they misplace their purse on election day?

I misspoke in my orig post. In vote by-mail- states - they check your signature on the ballot outer ENVELOPE (not on the ballot itself) -so your vote is still anonymous.

So if you misplace your purse on election day you go get a mail-in ballot from someone?

And a forger.

 

[Mac1958]

(Counterpoint: Voter ID laws discriminate against identifiable populations and create a distortionary effect in the political process.

Okay, this is the response I usually see, so let's dig down. Why is this so? Precisely how does it discriminate against identifiable populations, specifically? If a person knows, say, in January that they will need an ID to vote in November, exactly how is this discriminatory?

Examples would help.

Sincere, serious question.

.

 

[rdean]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

What if they don't have a birth certificate? Then what?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You need an ID to check out a library book... we all know this all about letting people vote who probably shouldn't be... and they vote Democratic.

 

[Ava]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

"What is so TERRIBLE about voter ID?"

Nothing at all, but then I am for the rule of law and American citizens ONLY being able to cast a vote. Many others don't share my ambition.

 

[beagle9]

There is no voter fraud.

The Bush administration spent years and millions of dollars trying to find evidence of voter fraud. They found 156 cases in the entire country. And most of those were people who voted in the wrong district by accident.

Voter ID laws are an attempt by the Republican Party to suppress the black vote.

Why don't blacks have ID's?

Good question, born out of his statement about "blacks" being suppressed only in his statement as is written, and not maybe to say the poorest of Americans are targetted instead ?

You see, they try (certain blacks or ignorant liberals) to make everything about someone trying to supress the blacks no matter what the issue is, and all because they feel that by doing this (making it about racism somehow), it is then suggested by them, that what ever goes on, it has to be or it is a direct attack strategy by the (redneck, hillbilly repubicans) to get Barack "the first black president" out of office with these very moves.

They ignore all the problems with Acorn that had been looked at, and all the dead people that voted, and the prisoners who voted from within the prisons excetra excetra, where as I guess all that didnot count now did it ?

Because Barack Obama is in that office, it will be suggested that every move made against him, is of course racist in one way or the other, and that is a shame. I garantee you that Barack would rather it not be that way, because he doesn't want to lose his Presidency, because he wasn't allowed to be an American while President, but instead was forced to be Black in America as President, and this by the black people who want to see him only in this way, and not in any other.

When will we ever truly become just Americans in this nation, instead of this being as black Americans, white Americans, Latino Americans excetra excetra found in this idiocy that goes on forever in this nation ?

 

[g5000]

What is so TERRIBLE about [r]equiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they register to vote???

Fixed that for you.

Fixed that for all of you Voter ID paranoids.

 

[g5000]

No one has ever shown an ACTUAL VOTER PROBLEM which cannot be solved at the voter registration phase.

 

[Peach]

There is no voter fraud.

The Bush administration spent years and millions of dollars trying to find evidence of voter fraud. They found 156 cases in the entire country. And most of those were people who voted in the wrong district by accident.

Voter ID laws are an attempt by the Republican Party to suppress the black vote.

Why don't blacks have ID's?

My mother had no ID, and she was CAUCASIAN. Disabilities prevented her from driving. And there are not DMV sites in every city to obtain ID either.

 

[Big Fitz]

Requiring voters to PROVE that they are American citizens before they vote???

In vote-by-mail only states: they check your signature on the ballot with the one they have on file.

The only ones against it are useful idiots lied to by those who hope to commit voter fraud. You can't do much in society that's important without ID.

 

[ginscpy]

No one has ever shown an ACTUAL VOTER PROBLEM which cannot be solved at the voter registration phase.

Ever hear of ACORN?

 

[Mustang]

Let me say a few things about voter fraud.

First of all, I'm more concerned about election fraud (public officials or someone who has technical knowledge AND access) stuffing ballot boxes, or altering electronic voting machines, or sending in large numbers of absentee ballots. That concerns me a lot more than voter fraud where individuals engage ID fraud at polling stations.

Secondly, if 1,000 potential fraudulent voters are turned away at polling stations, and the end result of not accepting IDs that aren't state-approved at polling places ultimately results in 10,000 voters being disenfranchised, what exactly have we gained in the process?

Two things come to mind in all this: When gov't doesn't have the will to solve a problem (and there is scant evidence there's a real problem with voter fraud), they elect to make the problem worse. It's called penny wise and pound foolish.

Additionally, I think there's ample evidence that Republicans are not responding to a voter fraud problem. There responding to the record turnout of the young, the elderly, and minorities in the 2008 election who overwhelmingly voted for President Obama since these new laws are almost certainly going to impact those groups the most.

 

[ladyliberal]

(Counterpoint: Voter ID laws discriminate against identifiable populations and create a distortionary effect in the political process.

Okay, this is the response I usually see, so let's dig down. Why is this so? Precisely how does it discriminate against identifiable populations, specifically? If a person knows, say, in January that they will need an ID to vote in November, exactly how is this discriminatory?

Examples would help.

Sincere, serious question.

.

I appreciate the question, and will attempt a sincere response.

As noted in the letter I cited, many of those populations are less likely to have acceptable forms of ID. So, those populations are clearly discriminated against by voter ID laws, in that they have to go to the trouble of obtaining something or to forgo their franchise. Of course not every policy that is discriminatory is bad-- unemployment insurance discriminates against employed people, etc. In the particular case of voter ID, I feel that the government interest that would justify this discrimination (ie, preventing fraud) does not, since fraud of the type that would be prevented appears to be very very rare.

You might argue that a population lacking in IDs is not discriminated against because they could obtain IDs. While this is usually (but not always) true, one could make the same argument about poll taxes and literacy tests: most people could afford a small tax or demonstrate a sufficiently minimal standard of literacy. However, we agree (I assume) that poll taxes represent a barrier to voting, and one that was discriminatory in that they represented a greater barrier to African American than European American voters. Going to a government office, filling out paperwork, providing proof of residency (even if one is homeless) and perhaps paying fees can certainly be quite difficult.

So, it seems clear to me that voter ID laws represent a barrier to (legitimate) voters, and that they represent a greater barrier on average to certain identifiable populations (ethnic minorities, poor, disabled, young adults) than to others (healthy middle-aged financially secure people). The final question is how large and how discriminatory this barrier is. That's a more difficult question, and I don't think anyone knows the answer precisely (it should be different for different populations of course). Given the level of effort that's going into implementing Voter ID, I have to imagine the effect will be quite noticeable once there is more data.