What is our obligation to the poor?

[ding]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

 

[Mudda]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

"Taxing the rich" he's not talking to you, dingbat.

 

[danielpalos]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

You should send me a check every month for three hundred dollars

what if we end our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror, to end our income tax?

 

[danielpalos]

The law is socialism, not capitalism.

No. The law is based on virtue. There is no virtue in socialism or socialists. There is only deceit and deception. You can't even bring yourself to admit that you are one. Beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.

You mistake for moral virtues for civil virtues and civil liberties. And, why do you believe capitalists are any more honest for free, we know capitalists must have capital based morals, not social based morals. the Only problem with socialism, is that it requires social morals for free, even while being "punished" by lucre or a lack thereof, as the case may be.

No. virtues are virtues. I don't believe that capitalists have superior values. I believe that free enterprise has superior values. There are many many problems with socialism. The biggest being it is a subtle narcotic which destroys the spirit of man.

Free enterprise? Is that why even gods mandated moral commandments and why we have social laws?

Do you see God enforcing His laws?

I have no way of knowing. We do have social laws enacted pursuant to our social Contract and federal Constitution.

I don't have enough Faith, to rely on purely religious laws for my "civil" salvation.

And, Any recourse to our secular and temporal and supreme law of the land for the militias of the several United States; implies that consent to our form of socialism and Government.

 

[Votto]

Ive been thinking about it this morning and I was wondering what our obligation to the poor is. Im not talking about what we should outsource to the government or what the government should do. But what do we as individuals have a responsibility to do?

I keep thinking of the words of a hymn:

"We'll go to the poor like our Captain of old. And visit the weary, the hungry, and cold. We'll cheer up their hearts with the news that he bore and point them to Zion and life evermore."

I believe we as individuals have a duty and privilege to serve the poor. And that when we try to outsource those responsibilities to the government and to others, than we fail to give and recieve the blessings we could otherwise have.

What do you think?

I'm a Christian so I believe we have a Christian obligation to help the poor. The difference is, I don't believe in the secular state telling me how to go about this Christian obligation. Dims think Jesus was a Dim though so they wish us the US to adopt religion without mentioning God or religion by name.

It's the same game they play with the Fed. Sure, the Fed is not owned by the state in name, but they are a state entity all the same.

 

[danielpalos]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

only in the special pleading of right wing fantasy, as cronies will, to help the rich get richer, at the expense of the poor.

Our Founding Fathers did an most Excellent job at the Convention (where they thought of every Thing), with our supreme law of the land and federal Constitution.

Our use of socialism is limited by our Social Contract and Constitution for the People of our Republic.

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

The common defense is not the common offense nor the general warfare; there is no explicit enumeration for a warfare-State economy; a welfare-State economy is expressly and intelligently designed into our form of Government.

 

[Votto]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

only in the special pleading of right wing fantasy, as cronies will, to help the rich get richer, at the expense of the poor.

Our Founding Fathers did an most Excellent job at the Convention (where they thought of every Thing), with our supreme law of the land and federal Constitution.

Our use of socialism is limited by our Social Contract and Constitution for the People of our Republic.

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

The common defense is not the common offense nor the general warfare; there is no explicit enumeration for a warfare-State economy; a welfare-State economy is expressly and intelligently designed into our form of Government.

The US government was not set up to be a welfare state. Instead, they opted for a limited government in favor of freedom.

Most Dims point to the general welfare clause in the Constitution to try and give the welfare state legitimacy. However, anyone who can read and use their brain can see this is a lie based upon what Madison, the author of the Constitution, had to say about it.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."

 

[danielpalos]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

only in the special pleading of right wing fantasy, as cronies will, to help the rich get richer, at the expense of the poor.

Our Founding Fathers did an most Excellent job at the Convention (where they thought of every Thing), with our supreme law of the land and federal Constitution.

Our use of socialism is limited by our Social Contract and Constitution for the People of our Republic.

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

The common defense is not the common offense nor the general warfare; there is no explicit enumeration for a warfare-State economy; a welfare-State economy is expressly and intelligently designed into our form of Government.

The US government was not set up to be a welfare state.

Yes, it was. it is in our social Contract.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And, if a welfare-State is not expressly enumerated, according to the fantastical right wing, then a warfare-State cannot be expressly enumerated, either.

 

[Votto]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

only in the special pleading of right wing fantasy, as cronies will, to help the rich get richer, at the expense of the poor.

Our Founding Fathers did an most Excellent job at the Convention (where they thought of every Thing), with our supreme law of the land and federal Constitution.

Our use of socialism is limited by our Social Contract and Constitution for the People of our Republic.

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

The common defense is not the common offense nor the general warfare; there is no explicit enumeration for a warfare-State economy; a welfare-State economy is expressly and intelligently designed into our form of Government.

The US government was not set up to be a welfare state.

Yes, it was. it is in our social Contract.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And, if a welfare-State is not expressly enumerated, according to the fantastical right wing, then a warfare-State cannot be expressly enumerated, either.

Madison just refuted your assertion, but like all other Progs, you don't care.

 

[BlueGin]

I do contribute to the poor. I also volunteer a lot of my time to them. We also give away LOTS to veterans organizations and shelters (food, clothing, appliances, etc.).

Doesn't everyone do this?

Same here.

My obligations to the poor are between me and God. Not me and the government.

 

[danielpalos]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

only in the special pleading of right wing fantasy, as cronies will, to help the rich get richer, at the expense of the poor.

Our Founding Fathers did an most Excellent job at the Convention (where they thought of every Thing), with our supreme law of the land and federal Constitution.

Our use of socialism is limited by our Social Contract and Constitution for the People of our Republic.

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

The common defense is not the common offense nor the general warfare; there is no explicit enumeration for a warfare-State economy; a welfare-State economy is expressly and intelligently designed into our form of Government.

The US government was not set up to be a welfare state.

Yes, it was. it is in our social Contract.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

And, if a welfare-State is not expressly enumerated, according to the fantastical right wing, then a warfare-State cannot be expressly enumerated, either.

Madison just refuted your assertion, but like all other Progs, you don't care.

you just didn't understand Madison (who became a Republican).

And, if a welfare-State is not expressly enumerated, according to the fantastical right wing, then a warfare-State cannot be expressly enumerated, either.

 

[danielpalos]

I do contribute to the poor. I also volunteer a lot of my time to them. We also give away LOTS to veterans organizations and shelters (food, clothing, appliances, etc.).

Doesn't everyone do this?

Same here.

My obligations to the poor are between me and God. Not me and the government.

not true. Congress is Only delegated the social Power to use our Tax our monies for the general welfare.

 

[BlueGin]

I think we should solve simple poverty by taxing the rich into Heaven.

Karl Marx felt the exact same way.

He must have been influenced by Jesus the Christ and His teachings.

The problem is, socialism requires social morals for free.

We have more than Ten social or religious Commandments.

Forced charity is not charity. Socialism has and will always be a reaction. It dismisses its defeats and ignores its inconcruieties. It is a subversive and deceptive ideology that destroys the spirit of man.

"Forced" obedience is not True Love for Any God, either; and, we have more than Ten religious Commandments, from a God.

So, what is your actual point?

Yes, and forcing someone to be virtuous does not make them virtuous. My point was that your initial comment is something the founder of socialism would have said and that socialism is evil. What is your point about having more than Ten religious Commandments, from a God? Because I don't see God forcing us to follow His "more than Ten religious Commandments," but I do see you suggesting that we should force the rich to be charitable.

Libs think by stealing other people's money to feed the poor instead of doing it themselves makes them virtuous by default.

It's all about how they feel about helping the needy...not what they as individuals actually do to accomplish this.

 

[danielpalos]

Karl Marx felt the exact same way.

He must have been influenced by Jesus the Christ and His teachings.

The problem is, socialism requires social morals for free.

We have more than Ten social or religious Commandments.

Forced charity is not charity. Socialism has and will always be a reaction. It dismisses its defeats and ignores its inconcruieties. It is a subversive and deceptive ideology that destroys the spirit of man.

"Forced" obedience is not True Love for Any God, either; and, we have more than Ten religious Commandments, from a God.

So, what is your actual point?

Yes, and forcing someone to be virtuous does not make them virtuous. My point was that your initial comment is something the founder of socialism would have said and that socialism is evil. What is your point about having more than Ten religious Commandments, from a God? Because I don't see God forcing us to follow His "more than Ten religious Commandments," but I do see you suggesting that we should force the rich to be charitable.

Libs think by stealing other people's money to feed the poor instead of doing it themselves makes them virtuous by default.

It's all about how they feel about helping the needy...not what they as individuals actually do to accomplish this.

No dear; it is about morals and bearing True Witness to our own laws, simply for the sake of social morals, "for free" or on a not for profit basis.

 

[Mudda]

What is our obligation to the poor?

Free edukasion.

 

[danielpalos]

What is our obligation to the poor?

Free edukasion.

free education is a requirement to the extent there is no excuse for ignorance of any written laws.

 

[Ralph]

A simple truth just as the Christ explained...the world will always have poor people, poverty can't be cured, "For the poor you have with you always....." -- John 12:8

Poverty exists because of several things that simply can't be controlled by anyone. Circumstances..i.e., some might call it luck bad or good, some might call it acts of nature....some people are poor because of some type of sickness or injury, incapacity. Some are poor because of the existence of FREE WILL....they have simply made the wrong choices in their lives and have never even attempted to correct those life altering mistakes of reason. Some simply choose to be poor, there is no cure for free will...unless one propagates despotism and totalitarianism.

Then what should and can be done in relation to poverty as defined by Christian Doctrine in the holy scriptures?

Some argue that combating poverty is the churches responsibility.....a half truth at best. The church as defined in scripture is not an establishment to carry out welfare for the masses. No where is there a command to 'eliminate' poverty....why? As Jesus pointed out, its impossible...the poor will be with us forever as long as there is an earth.

But the scriptures are clear.....caring for the poor is an individual responsibility for all Christians, when poverty is exampled and one has the means and the method to help his/her neighbor...they should do it, not just talk about it.(Gal. 6:9-10) As individual Christians we are to........visit widows and orphans and help where we can -- James 1:27

Such is an example of action...not just talk, one must act, because faith without works is dead. Is there a contradiction? Are we not saved by faith? There is no conflict....there is only compliment, one can't exist void of the other, salvation can only come when on puts that faith into action. James 1

Having compassion is what separates the goats from the sheep -- Matt. 25:31-36

Even under the old law, The Law of Mosses, we are commanded to help/serve and feed the poor when possible....on an individual basis. -- Isa. 58:6-12 And we are commanded to learn from the old law, to use it as a book of teaching....to learn from the mistakes and lessons of those who preceded the Christ and His kingdom.

But....as demonstrated in scripture.....the duty of the church was not and is not to feed the poor, the duty of helping the poor falls upon the shoulders of each individual Christian to help when and how they can....as we each work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Work does not stop simply because one has been conveyed into the kingdom of the Christ...as long as there is life there remains work to be done....the Christian Sabbath comes at the end of the race called life...in the meanwhile we are all subject to the laws of nature and their consequences. We all can get sick, we all can face injury or even death on a daily basis...we are promised nothing extra in this world with the exception of a peace within our spirit that transcends the knowledge of the world because we have allowed the truth to set us free.

The purpose of the church as defined in scripture? The purpose for God becoming incarnate in the life of Jesus? To teach the truth as revealed from heaven -- John 18:37 The service of Jesus to the poor was to teach them...not to feed them...as the scriptures pointed out, Jesus chastised the poor who followed Him because they followed Him only because they wanted more fish and loaves, Jesus turned them away -- John 26:26-27

The church was established to spread the truth or the good news, not to feed the poor, but to feed their spirits and give them hope eternal regardless of life's circumstances that await each and every one of us. -- 1 Tim. 3:15

 

[Mudda]

A simple truth just as the Christ explained...the world will always have poor people, poverty can't be cured, "For the poor you have with you always....." -- John 12:8

Poverty exists because of several things that simply can't be controlled by anyone. Circumstances..i.e., some might call it luck bad or good, some might call it acts of nature....some people are poor because of some type of sickness or injury, incapacity. Some are poor because of the existence of FREE WILL....they have simply made the wrong choices in their lives and have never even attempted to correct those life altering mistakes of reason. Some simply choose to be poor, there is no cure for free will...unless one propagates despotism and totalitarianism.

Then what should and can be done in relation to poverty as defined by Christian Doctrine in the holy scriptures?

Some argue that combating poverty is the churches responsibility.....a half truth at best. The church as defined in scripture is not an establishment to carry out welfare for the masses. No where is there a command to 'eliminate' poverty....why? As Jesus pointed out, its impossible...the poor will be with us forever as long as there is an earth.

But the scriptures are clear.....caring for the poor is an individual responsibility for all Christians, when poverty is exampled and one has the means and the method to help his/her neighbor...they should do it, not just talk about it.(Gal. 6:9-10) As individual Christians we are to........visit widows and orphans and help where we can -- James 1:27

Such is an example of action...not just talk, one must act, because faith without works is dead. Is there a contradiction? Are we not saved by faith? There is no conflict....there is only compliment, one can't exist void of the other, salvation can only come when on puts that faith into action. James 1

Having compassion is what separates the goats from the sheep -- Matt. 25:31-36

Even under the old law, The Law of Mosses, we are commanded to help/serve and feed the poor when possible....on an individual basis. -- Isa. 58:6-12 And we are commanded to learn from the old law, to use it as a book of teaching....to learn from the mistakes and lessons of those who preceded the Christ and His kingdom.

But....as demonstrated in scripture.....the duty of the church was not and is not to feed the poor, the duty of helping the poor falls upon the shoulders of each individual Christian to help when and how they can....as we each work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Work does not stop simply because one has been conveyed into the kingdom of the Christ...as long as there is life there remains work to be done....the Christian Sabbath comes at the end of the race called life...in the meanwhile we are all subject to the laws of nature and their consequences. We all can get sick, we all can face injury or even death on a daily basis...we are promised nothing extra in this world with the exception of a peace within our spirit that transcends the knowledge of the world because we have allowed the truth to set us free.

The purpose of the church as defined in scripture? The purpose for God becoming incarnate in the life of Jesus? To teach the truth as revealed from heaven -- John 18:37 The service of Jesus to the poor was to teach them...not to feed them...as the scriptures pointed out, Jesus chastised the poor who followed Him because they followed Him only because they wanted more fish and loaves, Jesus turned them away -- John 26:26-27

The church was established to spread the truth or the good news, not to feed the poor, but to feed their spirits -- 1 Tim. 3:15

Poverty exists because god invented poverty. So He wants people to suffer.

 

[ding]

No. The law is based on virtue. There is no virtue in socialism or socialists. There is only deceit and deception. You can't even bring yourself to admit that you are one. Beliefs not worth stating are beliefs not worth having.

You mistake for moral virtues for civil virtues and civil liberties. And, why do you believe capitalists are any more honest for free, we know capitalists must have capital based morals, not social based morals. the Only problem with socialism, is that it requires social morals for free, even while being "punished" by lucre or a lack thereof, as the case may be.

No. virtues are virtues. I don't believe that capitalists have superior values. I believe that free enterprise has superior values. There are many many problems with socialism. The biggest being it is a subtle narcotic which destroys the spirit of man.

Free enterprise? Is that why even gods mandated moral commandments and why we have social laws?

Do you see God enforcing His laws?

I have no way of knowing. We do have social laws enacted pursuant to our social Contract and federal Constitution.

I don't have enough Faith, to rely on purely religious laws for my "civil" salvation.

And, Any recourse to our secular and temporal and supreme law of the land for the militias of the several United States; implies that consent to our form of socialism and Government.

You have no way of knowing if God is forcing people to obey His laws? Do you have a way of knowing if the state is forcing people to obey its laws?

 

[ding]

What objection can there be to solving simple poverty and taxing the rich into Heaven, at the same time?

Do you mean besides the fact that you are proposing communism?

only in the special pleading of right wing fantasy, as cronies will, to help the rich get richer, at the expense of the poor.

Our Founding Fathers did an most Excellent job at the Convention (where they thought of every Thing), with our supreme law of the land and federal Constitution.

Our use of socialism is limited by our Social Contract and Constitution for the People of our Republic.

To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States:

The common defense is not the common offense nor the general warfare; there is no explicit enumeration for a warfare-State economy; a welfare-State economy is expressly and intelligently designed into our form of Government.

No, in the real world. If you take it from one group to give to another that would be communism.