What Is "Fair Share of Taxes"?

[rightwinger]

Show me a flat tax that doesn't cut taxes on the wealthy and raise taxes on the working poor

Flat Tax is a spending tax and we need a lot less spending in the US.

Why does the wealthiest nation on earth need less spending. We need better infrastructure, access to healthcare, education

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Those powers are quite broad as determined by 200 years of precedence

 

[kaz]

What is your fair share of taxes?

Depends on who you ask!

To a libertarian--whatever you decide to give

To a liberal--depends on how much you make!

To a leftist nutjob--everything you own!

To most libertarians, it's the amount necessary to support government for all for those things that aren't practical in a competitive market. Things like the military, police, civil and criminal courts, roads, recognition of property rights, management of limited resources (e.g., water) ...

 

[rightwinger]

Why does the wealthiest nation on earth need less spending. We need better infrastructure, access to healthcare, education

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Liberals don't even know what "general welfare" means. It means it benefits everyone equally. National parks, police, military, roads, they are available equally to all. They are "general" welfare. Taking money from one citizen by force and giving it to another isn't "general" welfare, it's a crime. It's called armed robbery. And government benefiting some citizens at the expense of others is a pure abuse of power and morally bankrupt

Nor do they realize that "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" is a limitation on congress' power to tax. It may only raise taxes towards those ends.

Can't really provide programs for We the People without the money to do it can you?

Not everyone can benefit equally from any Federal Program. That was never the intent and was never achievable

 

[Centinel]

Flat Tax is a spending tax and we need a lot less spending in the US.

Why does the wealthiest nation on earth need less spending. We need better infrastructure, access to healthcare, education

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Those powers are quite broad as determined by 200 years of precedence

If you actually look at art I, section 8, you will see that it's actually a very limited set of powers, And only laws that are necessary and proper to carry one of them into execution are the law of the land.

 

[rightwinger]

Flat Tax is a spending tax and we need a lot less spending in the US.

Why does the wealthiest nation on earth need less spending. We need better infrastructure, access to healthcare, education

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Liberals don't even know what "general welfare" means. It means it benefits everyone equally. National parks, police, military, roads, they are available equally to all. They are "general" welfare. Taking money from one citizen by force and giving it to another isn't "general" welfare, it's a crime. It's called armed robbery. And government benefiting some citizens at the expense of others is a pure abuse of power and morally bankrupt

Not everyone benefits equally from any of those things

 

[Centinel]

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Liberals don't even know what "general welfare" means. It means it benefits everyone equally. National parks, police, military, roads, they are available equally to all. They are "general" welfare. Taking money from one citizen by force and giving it to another isn't "general" welfare, it's a crime. It's called armed robbery. And government benefiting some citizens at the expense of others is a pure abuse of power and morally bankrupt

Nor do they realize that "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" is a limitation on congress' power to tax. It may only raise taxes towards those ends.

Can't really provide programs for We the People without the money to do it can you?

Not everyone can benefit equally from any Federal Program. That was never the intent and was never achievable

Article I, section 8 contains no legislative power to "provide programs".

 

[francoHFW]

buy a stick of gum, and you're a taxpayer, bam!

LOL

BTW, I thought SS and Medicare were people investing in their own future. It was just a lie, huh, the're just taxes ...

Lower income earners pay the highest percentage of state taxes in almost every state. The less you make, the greater percentage of your income you pay in state taxes. The wealthy pay the least at the state level as a percentage of income. It's amazing how cons never discuss this absurd fact.

That's a state by state issue and it makes no sense to talk about it here which is why I tens to only talk about federal taxes as that is consistent across the country

But tell me this why not treat a dollar like everything else we tax?

Federal taxes are also much higher, particularly for higher income people. Federal taxes also include taxes for many State services which should be removed and put into State taxes so States could decide how they want their money spent

If you count ALL taxes and fees, EVERYONE pays 20-30% of income, dupe.

So what? That still doesn't explain why so many people pay no federal income tax

Because Reaganists set it up that way DUH. Pure propaganda scheme at this point. So you don't care what people actually pay in taxes? Perfect chump.

 

[rightwinger]

Why does the wealthiest nation on earth need less spending. We need better infrastructure, access to healthcare, education

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Those powers are quite broad as determined by 200 years of precedence

If you actually look at art I, section 8, you will see that it's actually a very limited set of powers, And only laws that are necessary and proper to carry one of them into execution are the law of the land.

Actually, hundreds of years of legal precedent doesn't agree with you

 

[Centinel]

Infrastructure (other than post offices and post roads), healthcare, and education are not federal responsibilities. Go check out article I, section 8 of the constitution. All of those will be missing from the legislative powers given by the states to congress.

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Those powers are quite broad as determined by 200 years of precedence

If you actually look at art I, section 8, you will see that it's actually a very limited set of powers, And only laws that are necessary and proper to carry one of them into execution are the law of the land.

Actually, hundreds of years of legal precedent doesn't agree with you

I agree that the federal government has exceeded its authority for hundreds of years. But how does that change what the constitution says?

 

[kaz]

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Liberals don't even know what "general welfare" means. It means it benefits everyone equally. National parks, police, military, roads, they are available equally to all. They are "general" welfare. Taking money from one citizen by force and giving it to another isn't "general" welfare, it's a crime. It's called armed robbery. And government benefiting some citizens at the expense of others is a pure abuse of power and morally bankrupt

Nor do they realize that "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States" is a limitation on congress' power to tax. It may only raise taxes towards those ends.

Can't really provide programs for We the People without the money to do it can you?

Not everyone can benefit equally from any Federal Program. That was never the intent and was never achievable

Article I, section 8 contains no legislative power to "provide programs".

I have the stupid ***** on ignore, so I only see him when he's quoted.

That people "benefit equally" is an inane standard. It's not government's job to go out and make you use for example the roads as much as someone else or not more than other people.

Roads are available to all equally. Government doesn't say some citizens have more access to it than others. That people choose to use them differently is just liberty

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where did I ever say I don't want to pay taxes?

All I have been saying is that for the income tax to be fair that all dollars must be taxed at the same rate and that everyone should pay

WHat can't you understand about that?

Well, not everyone. You don't care about taxing people who work in cash industries and evade them. You want to give companies tax breaks for moving jobs offshore, but not for keeping them here. Companies that automate and foreign companies who import products should pay lower taxes.

But great American companies who honestly hire onshore workers, they should carry the load! I mean they should have a flat tax rate ...

Where did I say I want to give anyone a tax break?

I don't care what private companies do where they go or who they hire

If we are going to have an income tax and we will have an income tax for ever then it should be a flat tax from dollar one and everyone should pay

You said you want to give companies tax breaks for not having US workers because you want only the ones with onshore workers to pay those taxes. You automate, not only does your employees salary go away, but so do their taxes. You move jobs offshore, you drop the income taxes the onshore employees paid too. Cash non-payers don't pay, they would have to pay the Fair Tax when they spend the money.

You're lecturing me about not getting payrolls? How did you not get that?

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

It's the stupid prebate th formula used to figure it out and then sending out checks every month you idiot
it makes a simple tax complicated

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where did I say I want to give anyone a tax break?

I don't care what private companies do where they go or who they hire

If we are going to have an income tax and we will have an income tax for ever then it should be a flat tax from dollar one and everyone should pay

You said you want to give companies tax breaks for not having US workers because you want only the ones with onshore workers to pay those taxes. You automate, not only does your employees salary go away, but so do their taxes. You move jobs offshore, you drop the income taxes the onshore employees paid too. Cash non-payers don't pay, they would have to pay the Fair Tax when they spend the money.

You're lecturing me about not getting payrolls? How did you not get that?

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

Let's give flat tax a try, it might work.

Show me a flat tax that doesn't cut taxes on the wealthy and raise taxes on the working poor

Actually a 10% flat tax would not raise anyone's taxes as that is already the lowest bracket

If we are going to have an income tax then everyone with an income should pay it the fact that so many have not had to pay for so many years is of no concern

 

[kaz]

Well, not everyone. You don't care about taxing people who work in cash industries and evade them. You want to give companies tax breaks for moving jobs offshore, but not for keeping them here. Companies that automate and foreign companies who import products should pay lower taxes.

But great American companies who honestly hire onshore workers, they should carry the load! I mean they should have a flat tax rate ...

Where did I say I want to give anyone a tax break?

I don't care what private companies do where they go or who they hire

If we are going to have an income tax and we will have an income tax for ever then it should be a flat tax from dollar one and everyone should pay

You said you want to give companies tax breaks for not having US workers because you want only the ones with onshore workers to pay those taxes. You automate, not only does your employees salary go away, but so do their taxes. You move jobs offshore, you drop the income taxes the onshore employees paid too. Cash non-payers don't pay, they would have to pay the Fair Tax when they spend the money.

You're lecturing me about not getting payrolls? How did you not get that?

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

It's the stupid prebate th formula used to figure it out and then sending out checks every month you idiot
it makes a simple tax complicated

I agree with your opposition to the prebate. But still, that the prebate is more complicated than income taxes, corporate taxes and all the other taxes eliminated combined? Really?

 

[rightwinger]

It is the Governments responsibility to do what needs doing in the interests of the general welfare of our country

Whether it gets done at the Federal, state or local level depends on where it is most efficiently performed

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Those powers are quite broad as determined by 200 years of precedence

If you actually look at art I, section 8, you will see that it's actually a very limited set of powers, And only laws that are necessary and proper to carry one of them into execution are the law of the land.

Actually, hundreds of years of legal precedent doesn't agree with you

I agree that the federal government has exceeded its authority for hundreds of years. But how does that change what the constitution says?

If you believe otherwise, the courts are there for you to prove otherwise. Why don't you challenge 100 years of legal interpretation in the courts rather than on a message board?

 

[Skull Pilot]

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

Let's give flat tax a try, it might work.

Show me a flat tax that doesn't cut taxes on the wealthy and raise taxes on the working poor

Flat Tax is a spending tax and we need a lot less spending in the US.

Why does the wealthiest nation on earth need less spending. We need better infrastructure, access to healthcare, education

The federal government has no authority to spend money on education and the government already collects billions a year in taxes that are supposed to be earmarked for infrastructure and they spend it all right just not on what they are supposed to

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where did I say I want to give anyone a tax break?

I don't care what private companies do where they go or who they hire

If we are going to have an income tax and we will have an income tax for ever then it should be a flat tax from dollar one and everyone should pay

You said you want to give companies tax breaks for not having US workers because you want only the ones with onshore workers to pay those taxes. You automate, not only does your employees salary go away, but so do their taxes. You move jobs offshore, you drop the income taxes the onshore employees paid too. Cash non-payers don't pay, they would have to pay the Fair Tax when they spend the money.

You're lecturing me about not getting payrolls? How did you not get that?

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

It's the stupid prebate th formula used to figure it out and then sending out checks every month you idiot
it makes a simple tax complicated

I agree with your opposition to the prebate. But still, that the prebate is more complicated than income taxes, corporate taxes and all the other taxes eliminated combined? Really?

It's more complicated than a low rate flat income tax

 

[Skull Pilot]

Where did I say I want to give anyone a tax break?

I don't care what private companies do where they go or who they hire

If we are going to have an income tax and we will have an income tax for ever then it should be a flat tax from dollar one and everyone should pay

You said you want to give companies tax breaks for not having US workers because you want only the ones with onshore workers to pay those taxes. You automate, not only does your employees salary go away, but so do their taxes. You move jobs offshore, you drop the income taxes the onshore employees paid too. Cash non-payers don't pay, they would have to pay the Fair Tax when they spend the money.

You're lecturing me about not getting payrolls? How did you not get that?

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

Let's give flat tax a try, it might work.

Work at what ? I think people underestimate the complex ways people earn income . How would u measure Donald Trumps income? How would a guy like that just fill out a postcard tax return .

It's easy to figure out a businesses income. Revenues minus expenses.

 

[rightwinger]

You said you want to give companies tax breaks for not having US workers because you want only the ones with onshore workers to pay those taxes. You automate, not only does your employees salary go away, but so do their taxes. You move jobs offshore, you drop the income taxes the onshore employees paid too. Cash non-payers don't pay, they would have to pay the Fair Tax when they spend the money.

You're lecturing me about not getting payrolls? How did you not get that?

You find the quote where I said I want to give tax breaks to anyone

All I have ever been talking about is the federal income tax

We will never get rid of the income tax and the fair tax is too complicated and expensive to administrate as I have said before
It is beyond stupid to cut a check to ever single person every month

Complicated?



Taxing sales once is "complicated?" We need income taxes, corporate taxes, corporate debt, capital gains taxes, payroll taxes, repatriation of money taxes, ... and

sales taxes

to be LESS complicated than just sales taxes?





That's all I've got ...

Let's give flat tax a try, it might work.

Show me a flat tax that doesn't cut taxes on the wealthy and raise taxes on the working poor

Actually a 10% flat tax would not raise anyone's taxes as that is already the lowest bracket

If we are going to have an income tax then everyone with an income should pay it the fact that so many have not had to pay for so many years is of no concern

You have already admitted that many poor working families do not pay federal taxes. So, they would lose ten percent of their badly needed income.
Meanwhile, our wealthy would see their rate drop from 39% to 10% and we would add a trillion a year to our debt

 

[Centinel]

The congress' legislative powers are clearly listed in art I, sec 8. Nowhere in there does it say "to do what needs doing in the interests in the general welfare of our country."

Are you aware that when the states formed their union they only gave it a small set of legislative powers. Are you aware that they didn't give it plenary power?

Those powers are quite broad as determined by 200 years of precedence

If you actually look at art I, section 8, you will see that it's actually a very limited set of powers, And only laws that are necessary and proper to carry one of them into execution are the law of the land.

Actually, hundreds of years of legal precedent doesn't agree with you

I agree that the federal government has exceeded its authority for hundreds of years. But how does that change what the constitution says?

If you believe otherwise, the courts are there for you to prove otherwise. Why don't you challenge 100 years of legal interpretation in the courts rather than on a message board?

I just told you that the opinions of the federal government don't change the text of the constitution. The constitution doesn't grant congress legislative power over education or health care. One can determine that by simply reading the document.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Lower income earners pay the highest percentage of state taxes in almost every state. The less you make, the greater percentage of your income you pay in state taxes. The wealthy pay the least at the state level as a percentage of income. It's amazing how cons never discuss this absurd fact.

That's a state by state issue and it makes no sense to talk about it here which is why I tens to only talk about federal taxes as that is consistent across the country

But tell me this why not treat a dollar like everything else we tax?

Federal taxes are also much higher, particularly for higher income people. Federal taxes also include taxes for many State services which should be removed and put into State taxes so States could decide how they want their money spent

If you count ALL taxes and fees, EVERYONE pays 20-30% of income, dupe.

So what? That still doesn't explain why so many people pay no federal income tax

Because Reaganists set it up that way DUH. Pure propaganda scheme at this point. So you don't care what people actually pay in taxes? Perfect chump.

It makes no sense to discuss state taxes here as we are all in different states federal taxes are the only things we have in common

I am talking about one particular tax, the federal income tax that is all I'm talking about