What is Climate Denial costing the US?

[Toddsterpatriot]

While the cost of combating climate change is raised on a lot of threads (sometimes as a valid concern, more often as a means of avoiding the science), there is very little discussion given to what cost there is in denial.

1) Jobs.

Germany employs 370,000 people in renewable energy, mainly in small to medium enterprises. Korea, Scotland and Japan aslo have massive industries producing tidal and wind turbines, solar panels, consulting and conducting research into renewables.

2) Foreign Direct Investment.

Remember free market capitalism? People said it was a good thing? Well, my Renewable Energy share fund is up 12% over the past year. It invests in the countries listed above and a few more - but not the US.

3) Reputation.

As we've seen on other threads, climate change is not a political issue in most countries. Conservatives in the UK, France, Germany and around the world accept the science. The
Denial of the GOP makes them a bit of a joke in international science circles - and at some point that may cost the US quite a lot.

4) Money

New Zealand is ordering 200 tidal turbines at US$10 million a unit. Scotland won the deal ahead of bids from Japan and Korea. I call that good money to earn.

5) Technology

Research into renewables creates a lot of spin-off products and services that can become industries in their own right. Norway is a world leader in the field of Osmotic Energy - a field few people in the US have ever heard of. Who knows what may come out of that?

Yes, we must waste more taxpayer money on expensive, inefficient sources of "green" energy.

 

[Flopper]

It's unfortunately that the US has chosen to be a follower instead of a leader in the development of alternative energy sources.

 

[Oddball]

It's unfortunately that the US has chosen to be a follower instead of a leader in the development of alternative energy sources.

The billions blown on towering debacles like Solyndra, Sun Power, idiotic subsides for ETOH and goofy windmills makes us a leader in failure.

 

[Decus]

A very simple fact exists in Europe when it comes to renewable energy: No government subsidies = no renewable energy. The taxpayer in Europe foots the bill and fewer and fewer like the price they have to pay.

 

[bripat9643]

BriPat -

Profitable private companies do not cost the tax payer a dime.

At the moment those companies operate more in countries like Germany and Korea, because you guys don't want the jobs, apparently.

No company makes a profit producing wind or solar power without taxpayer subsidies. Germany, Spain and the UK are spending billions in subsidies. If private companies in the U.S. could make a profit on this stuff, they would be doing it. The whole point of your posts is to advocate for taxpayer subsidies.

 

[skookerasbil]

A very simple fact exists in Europe when it comes to renewable energy: No government subsidies = no renewable energy. The taxpayer in Europe foots the bill and fewer and fewer like the price they have to pay.

They've gotten the message over there........and coal is kicking ass.

US coal exports to Europe soar - FT.com

 

[Flopper]

It's unfortunately that the US has chosen to be a follower instead of a leader in the development of alternative energy sources.

The billions blown on towering debacles like Solyndra, Sun Power, idiotic subsides for ETOH and goofy windmills makes us a leader in failure.

The US has a long history of goofy subsidies, telegraphs, telephones, railroads, oil and gas, atomic energy, space exploration, etc. A lot of companies in new industries fail, in fact, most do, but that doesn't mean we should't invest in that industry.

Often government provides subsidies for new industries that private investors shun because of the lack of established markets or high risk reward ratios. In the 1960's, no one in their right mind would invest in operating satellites, at least not until the government created Comsat. Comsat corporation, the first commercial operator of satellites was created in 1963 with private investments, government guaranteed loans and contracts. Today there are over 500 US satellites. 350 are commercially operated.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's unfortunately that the US has chosen to be a follower instead of a leader in the development of alternative energy sources.

"You tell 'em, peckerwood!"

 

[skookerasbil]

All Europeans are slaves to the government. Its in the DNA.......always has been. Whats most fucked up is they dont even realize the level of exploitation. Thats why I dont take any of their input on here seriously. Its always laced with this deep jealousy = gay.

 

[Saigon]

Yes, we must waste more taxpayer money on expensive, inefficient sources of "green" energy.

The ones that earning millions of dollars and creating thousands of job in other countries.

Jesus wept.....

 

[Saigon]

No company makes a profit producing wind or solar power without taxpayer subsidies. Germany, Spain and the UK are spending billions in subsidies. If private companies in the U.S. could make a profit on this stuff, they would be doing it. The whole point of your posts is to advocate for taxpayer subsidies.

Right. So none of the companies selling turbines, solar cells or consulting in renewables - many of whom are share listed - are making a profit, even though my shares up 12% in a year. Go it.

Should I perhaps have started with a dictionary definition of what we mean by a 'private company'?

 

[Saigon]

It's unfortunately that the US has chosen to be a follower instead of a leader in the development of alternative energy sources.

Exactly that - and I am relieved to find a coherent post!!

Any smart investor is looking for companies that make money. If the US doesn't want those companies, those jobs and that FDI goes elsewhere. It's as simple as that.

And what we see on this thread is a number of posters who simply can't grasp that as a concept.

 

[Saigon]

So-called alternate sources of energy are laughable. The global warming racket costs America billions in extortion .

Right.

So it is not possible that a planned tidal energy project in New Zealand would provide electricity for 7 million people - more than the entire national population?

It is not true that renewbles now amount to more than 20% of the electricity production of some of the largest economies on earth?

What is laughable is that you do not want to be a part of thoe jobs and those exports dollars.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, we must waste more taxpayer money on expensive, inefficient sources of "green" energy.

The ones that earning millions of dollars and creating thousands of job in other countries.

Jesus wept.....

Yes, we must spend tens of billions to create thousands of jobs and millions in earnings. LOL!

 

[Saigon]

Todd -

It may be that this topic - like so many others - is sinply beyond your understanding.

But let's try:

Private companies in a half dozen countries make money and create jobs in renewable energies. They receive no money from government, no subsidies and no pay offs. They are private companies.

Is that clear?

 

[Oddball]

And they sell things to countries like America that subsidize those purchases.

Is that clear?

 

[Oddball]

It's unfortunately that the US has chosen to be a follower instead of a leader in the development of alternative energy sources.

The billions blown on towering debacles like Solyndra, Sun Power, idiotic subsides for ETOH and goofy windmills makes us a leader in failure.

The US has a long history of goofy subsidies, telegraphs, telephones, railroads, oil and gas, atomic energy, space exploration, etc. A lot of companies in new industries fail, in fact, most do, but that doesn't mean we should't invest in that industry.

Often government provides subsidies for new industries that private investors shun because of the lack of established markets or high risk reward ratios. In the 1960's, no one in their right mind would invest in operating satellites, at least not until the government created Comsat. Comsat corporation, the first commercial operator of satellites was created in 1963 with private investments, government guaranteed loans and contracts. Today there are over 500 US satellites. 350 are commercially operated.

You're comparing communication satellites that make scads of money to stupid-assed, bankrupt, money pit "green energy" scams?

Srsly?

 

[Saigon]

Anyone interested in the merits of the Denier case could do worse than review the literacy on display on this thread.

If you combined Oddball, Todd, Frank and BriPat you'd almost have enough brain for a guinea pig. And it still wouldn't be able to spell.

Four posters so far who don't seem to know what free trade or capitalism is.

 

[Katzndogz]

All Europeans are slaves to the government. Its in the DNA.......always has been. Whats most fucked up is they dont even realize the level of exploitation. Thats why I dont take any of their input on here seriously. Its always laced with this deep jealousy = gay.

It might have something to do with Europe's history of monarchy. Europeans have never been a free people. They have always been subjects of some King, some Lord and feel more comfortable as a serf. The Ruler as Father has always been accepted. The King knows best. Even when that king is robbing them blind.

We know that the green energy projects have failed. They have failed in Europe and in the US. But in Europe, they are so used to obeying the ruler that they believe what they are told.

National Post editorial board: European energy lessons for Dalton McGuinty | Full Comment | National Post

In less than a decade, Germany has given power companies and consumers $130-billion in subsidies, mostly to develop a market for solar energy. Despite all that cash, solar electricity still accounts for only 0.3% of Germany’s power supply. Because only some of that total has been covered by taxpayers, and the rest has been passed on to all electricity consumers, the cost of German green-power subsidies will add nearly $300 to the average German family’s power bill this year alone. For industrial power consumers, the added costs can run into hundreds of thousands of euros per year. Philipp Rosler, the federal minister of economics and technology, warned earlier this month that the cost of green power was a “threat to the economy.” As a result, the federal German government is looking to get out of the subsidy business, and the German solar industry is gasping for air.

Europe nixes green energy as Obama doubles down - BizPac Review

European countries began investing in green energy programs long before America even considered it, and their experiment was a total failure.

Gabriel Calzada Álvarez, an associate professor at Universidad Rey Juan Carlos in Madrid, teaches applied economics at the Environmental Science Faculty. Alvarez testified before the House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming on Sept. 24, 2009, saying:

• For every green job financed by Spanish taxpayers, 2.2 jobs were lost as an opportunity cost.
• Only one out of 10 green job contracts were in maintenance and operation of already installed plants, and most of the rest of the working positions are only sustainable in an expansive environment related to high subsidies.
• Since 2000, Spain has committed €571,138 ($753,778) per “green job.”
• Those programs resulted in the destruction of nearly 110,500 jobs.

Each “green” megawatt installed on average destroyed 5.39 jobs elsewhere in the economy, and in the case of solar photovoltaics, the number reached 8.99 jobs per megawatt hour installed.

Europe is now reassessing its programs, and ZeroHedge.com’s Tyler Durden wrote Thursday that Germany and Spain are getting set to pull the plug on green energy production.

Clearly green energy in Europe has been a failure and the green energy infrastructure is being dismantled as too expensive and not worthwhile.

Where green energy is doing well and is commercially viable is pretty much Iceland which has so much that they can export it. Iceland sits on a volcano so they have a special relationship with green energy. The whole world is not so fortunate.


Iceland: A 100% renewables example in the modern era : Renew Economy

 

[Saigon]

I remember when Americans backed free trade and capitalism. Not any more.

Good to see posters like Katzndogz lining up to condemn them. Skooks would probably be anti-capitalist hmself if he could spell the word.