What Is American Socialism, Communism, and Marxism: Open Q&A

[miketx]

My advice? all you worthless commie fuks move to China.

 

[The Duke]

Lets look at Marxism:

What is Marxism in simple terms?
Marxism is a social, economic and political philosophy that analyses the impact of the ruling class on the laborers, leading to uneven distribution of wealth and privileges in the society. It stimulates the workers to protest the injustice.

So what that means organised labour force in unions is Marxism. So the US Constitution guarantees a major pillar of Marxism under the first amendment and the right to associate..

So to be anti-Marxist means you are against the US Constitution and thus against America...

This is the problem with making something the boogyman and everything is evil... So why are these anti-Marxist so anti America.

Unions went out in the 1930s along with company stores. I'll ixnay the swine sex reference because this is zone 2.

 

[Red Front]

No homo.

Yes, you are.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Your post is full of rubbish.

I stand by all that I said. You Marxists like to lie. Any tactic to divide people that oppose Marxism.
As to the part where Marx supposedly said the people should be armed, that was so that they could have an armed revolution to force their vile ideology on others. Once that was accomplished, well, let's take a look.
China: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Cuba: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Old Soviet Union: The general public was restricted from firearm ownership.
Laos: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Vietnam: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
What they have in common? They're Marxist.

 

[SeaMajor7]

Yes, you are.

Trotsky thought he was all in too, until the ice axe

 

[Red Front]

I stand by all that I said. You Marxists like to lie. Any tactic to divide people that oppose Marxism.
As to the part where Marx supposedly said the people should be armed, that was so that they could have an armed revolution to force their vile ideology on others. Once that was accomplished, well, let's take a look.
China: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Cuba: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Old Soviet Union: The general public was restricted from firearm ownership.
Laos: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Vietnam: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
What they have in common? They're Marxist.

When you want to have a real dialogue, let me know.

 

[sparky]

Sounds exactly like capitalism. A tiny wealthy privileged elite living off of the labor of others like parasites.

say it ain't so.......



~S~

 

[Red Front]

I stand by all that I said. You Marxists like to lie. Any tactic to divide people that oppose Marxism.
As to the part where Marx supposedly said the people should be armed, that was so that they could have an armed revolution to force their vile ideology on others. Once that was accomplished, well, let's take a look.
China: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Cuba: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Old Soviet Union: The general public was restricted from firearm ownership.
Laos: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
Vietnam: The general public is restricted from firearm ownership.
What they have in common? They're Marxist.

How is socialism "vile"?

Where is your evidence that Marx himself wanted to disarm the proletariat/working class? Where exactly did he say that?

Just because certain countries identify their economies as Marxist - socialist, doesn't imply that they are perfectly aligned with every single opinion Marx held or agree with every single observation that Marx made about socialism and how to implement it. Marx himself was always for the working class to have access to weapons. He never said anything that contradicted that.

Do capitalists always agree with Adam Smith the father of modern capitalism? In order to be a capitalist, do you need to follow every single concept expressed in Adam Smith's book "The Wealth Of Nations"? Smith didn't like landlords and he identified capitalists as "masters". Do you believe capitalists are the masters of their employees? Smith also identified employees as both workmen and "servants". The people who work are workmen/servants. The people who rent them are masters. Master and Servant. That's vile.

Those who work in the enterprise should own and run it together. You want unelected, unaccountable leadership in one of the most important areas of our lives. The workplace.

All unelected, unaccountable leadership is vile. That's the system that you support and defend. One of employers/exploiters and employees/exploitees. When was the last time you participated in an election in the workplace? Democracy for you is only appropriate in politics not in the workplace, where millions of Americans spend most of their waking hours. No one who defends such a vile system is truly a champion of freedom and liberty. You defend tyranny.

 

[miketx]

How is socialism "vile"?

Where is your evidence that Marx himself wanted to disarm the proletariat/working class? Where exactly did he say that?

Just because certain countries identify their economies as Marxist - socialist, doesn't imply that they are perfectly aligned with every single opinion Marx held or agree with every single observation that Marx made about socialism and how to implement it. Marx himself was always for the working class to have access to weapons. He never said anything that contradicted that.

Do capitalists always agree with Adam Smith the father of modern capitalism? In order to be a capitalist, do you need to follow every single concept expressed in Adam Smith's book "The Wealth Of Nations"? Smith didn't like landlords and he identified capitalists as "masters". Do you believe capitalists are the masters of their employees? Smith also identified employees as both workmen and "servants". The people who work are workmen/servants. The people who rent them are masters. Master and Servant. That's vile.

Those who work in the enterprise should own and run it together. You want unelected, unaccountable leadership in one of the most important areas of our lives. The workplace.

All unelected, unaccountable leadership is vile. That's the system that you support and defend. One of employers/exploiters and employees/exploitees. When was the last time you participated in an election in the workplace? Democracy for you is only appropriate in politics not in the workplace, where millions of Americans spend most of their waking hours. No one who defends such a vile system is truly a champion of freedom and liberty. You defend tyranny.

What kind of AR-15 is that? Is it the full semi auto model?

 

[Richard-H]

With regard to your thought on "American values,'' we have a very good guide in the Constitution as well as what is widely regarded as its blueprint; The Federalist.

It seems that Conservatives are only aware of one phrase of the Constitution "The right to bear arms", while blatantly ignoring and/or misinterpreting the rest.

The principles outlined in the Declaration of independence are forgotten.

The Federalist papers are of great value as are the works of Thomas Paine.

My point is that the Founding Fathers based their Philosophies on higher order principles and all else can be derived from those principles.

There was never any specific economic system discussed by the Founding Fathers. The modern political discussion is always around economic systems that were the brain children of European economic philosophers. This causing Americans to be completely distracted from American principles.

Meanwhile, there has been a "creeping neo-monarchy" that's become the defacto reality of what America really is.

 

[miketx]

It seems that Conservatives are only aware of one phrase of the Constitution "The right to bear arms", while blatantly ignoring and/or misinterpreting the rest.

The principles outlined in the Declaration of independence are forgotten.

The Federalist papers are of great value as are the works of Thomas Paine.

My point is that the Founding Fathers based their Philosophies on higher order principles and all else can be derived from those principles.

There was never any specific economic system discussed by the Founding Fathers. The modern political discussion is always around economic systems that were the brain children of European economic philosophers. This causing Americans to be completely distracted from American principles.

Meanwhile, there has been a "creeping neo-monarchy" that's become the defacto reality of what America really is.

As usual, leftist scum lies out his docking port.

 

[Richard-H]

As usual, leftist scum lies out his docking port.

So, ya got nothing intelligent to say. The please do us all a favor and STFU!

 

[miketx]

So, ya got nothing intelligent to say. The please do us all a favor and STFU!

Sure I do, I said you scum are all liars, proven daily.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

OP's name is "Red Front". LOL!!

 

[Red Front]

• View attachment 812701

Reactions:miketx

What did you disagree with and why?

It seems that Conservatives are only aware of one phrase of the Constitution "The right to bear arms", while blatantly ignoring and/or misinterpreting the rest.

The principles outlined in the Declaration of independence are forgotten.

The Federalist papers are of great value as are the works of Thomas Paine.

My point is that the Founding Fathers based their Philosophies on higher order principles and all else can be derived from those principles.

There was never any specific economic system discussed by the Founding Fathers. The modern political discussion is always around economic systems that were the brain children of European economic philosophers. This causing Americans to be completely distracted from American principles.

Meanwhile, there has been a "creeping neo-monarchy" that's become the defacto reality of what America really is.

You said "My point is that the Founding Fathers based their Philosophies on higher-order principles and all else can be derived from those principles."

What "high-order" principles did they all supposedly agree upon? Where do they come from? How did you identify them? Were they explicitly identified by the signers of the Constitution as "higher principles" and then clearly listed for everyone to know exactly what they are or do they rely on you inferring what they are from different texts for me and for everyone else? Please provide some references. Thank you.

 

[Richard-H]

• View attachment 812701

Reactions:miketx

What did you disagree with and why?


You said "My point is that the Founding Fathers based their Philosophies on higher-order principles and all else can be derived from those principles."

What "high-order" principles did they all supposedly agree upon? Where do they come from? How did you identify them? Were they explicitly identified by the signers of the Constitution as "higher principles" and then clearly listed for everyone to know exactly what they are or do they rely on you inferring what they are from different texts for me and for everyone else? Please provide some references. Thank you.

The primary document is the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The Constitution which is mostly about the structure of a Democratic Government has quite a few principles:

"We the People...do ordain..."

Separation of Powers

The Bill of rights as loads of basic Principles...

There are a lot more, but before I go on I'd like to know if you are an American or not.

These are things that every American is taught in grade school. If you're American I shouldn't have to post them.

 

[Red Front]

The primary document is the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The Constitution which is mostly about the structure of a Democratic Government has quite a few principles:

"We the People...do ordain..."

Separation of Powers

The Bill of rights as loads of basic Principles...

There are a lot more, but before I go on I'd like to know if you are an American or not.

These are things that every American is taught in grade school. If you're American I shouldn't have to post them.

I'm an American. Post the self-evident principles. Complete your argument, it's interesting, I might learn something.

 

[Richard-H]

I'm an American. Post the self-evident principles. Complete your argument, it's interesting, I might learn something.

I suggest that you find a grade school teacher to teach you this stuff and stop jerking me around.

 

[Red Front]

I suggest that you find a grade school teacher to teach you this stuff and stop jerking me around.

So you're not interested in having an actual dialogue.

Nothing you've said so far excludes socialism or even its final objective, communism, from being implemented as our nation's economic model, when conditions demand it. Eventually, with the advancement of automation technology, which replaces wage labor, we will reach a point economically, that forces us by necessity to adopt a non-profit mode of production a.k.a. socialist production. Producing for the purpose of meeting our needs, rather than our greed. You haven't presented anything yet which renders socialism and its goal (communism), "un-American".

 

[Richard-H]

So you're not interested in having an actual dialogue.

Nothing you've said so far excludes socialism or even its final objective, communism, from being implemented as our nation's economic model, when conditions demand it. Eventually, with the advancement of automation technology, which replaces wage labor, we will reach a point that forces us by necessity to adopt a non-profit mode of production a.k.a. socialist production. Producing for the purpose of meeting our needs, rather than our greed. You haven't presented anything yet which renders socialism and its goal (communism), "un-American".

I never said that American principles exclude socialism. The U.S. has been semi-socialist for a very long time. Only posturing idiots believe that we're pure Capitalist.

However, those posturing idiots are trying hard to turn this into a Neo-Monarchy.

As far as Communism...it's been a complete failure everywhere it's been tried. It only survives by a brute force police state. The USSR was a police state for most of it's existence, when it liberalized it collapsed.

Even China couldn't survive as a pure Communist state. They had to rely on mass executions to maintain stability. Finally, they introduced some degree of capitalism & free market as the only way they could continue.

Note: There is no single text that lists American Principles like the Ten Commandments. You'll have to do some reading to figure them out. Sorry, but the founding Fathers were not simpletons and none believed they had all the answers.