What is a 'fair share'?

[Foxfyre]

What is the 'fair share' that taxpayers should pay?

We hear a lot from the left that rich Americans should pay their 'fair share.'

President Trump said the USA paid the huge lion's share of NATO, the UN, etc. and other countries should pay their 'fair share.'

Let's be honest that yes, the government can collect taxes, print money, sell bonds to cover some of its debt, but in the end it is we Americans who live with the consequences of tax policy and what the government spends money on.

So how do we define a 'fair share' that we should pay and/or others should pay?

 

[Gabe Lackmann]

We have history to inform us that expansionist minded dictators are never happy with taking one or two countries, but look on to the next, and the next. . .

The lack of introspection....is astonishing.

 

[JustAGuy1]

They will never quantify it, if they did and they got it they'd never get anymore.

 

[basquebromance]

the private sector can't on it's own ensure a decent quality of life for all citizens, we need government to level the playing field

 

[ColonelAngus]

What is the 'fair share' that taxpayers should pay?

We hear a lot from the left that rich Americans should pay their 'fair share.'

President Trump said the USA paid the huge lion's share of NATO, the UN, etc. and other countries should pay their 'fair share.'

Let's be honest that yes, the government can collect taxes, print money, sell bonds to cover some of its debt, but in the end it is we Americans who live with the consequences of tax policy and what the government spends money on.

So how do we define a 'fair share' that we should pay and/or others should pay?

I have been asking this since 2015.

NEVER ONE SPECIFIC ANSWER.

Good luck.

 

[basquebromance]

one of the things that made FDR successful were his bureaucrats: Chester Bowles, Frances Perkins

we need government to intervene when the economy in on the ropes

 

[Anathema]

Personally, I’d say a fair share is - 10% of all income. 5% for the Feds and 5% for the state. No deductions. No upper or lower limits on income. Everyone pays.

Now… what is Income? I would suggest that income is any financial payment or benefit that an employee does not contribute to and which has not previously been taxed.

Income: wages, company cars, housing allowances, etc…

Not Income: Retirement plans, 401Ks, medical insurance (so long as the employee pays at least 20% of the premium), etc…

 

[Foxfyre]

the private sector can't on it's own ensure a decent quality of life for all citizens, we need government to level the playing field

So what is the level for the playing field? The most that under achievers earn/pay? The richest? The poorest? Somewhere in the middle?

How do you get around what was taught to me as truth that if the the achievers are not rewarded for their efforts and the underachievers are rewarded the same as the achievers, neither will achieve much and all become poorer?

 

[Foxfyre]

View attachment 704549

The lack of introspection....is astonishing.

Thank you for your response. When the OP was not getting any attention, I did change it but apparently as you were responding to it. But your thesis is definitely part of the mix, especially when it comes to Russia's invasion of the Ukraine.

According to Statista, the U.S. is again paying the huge lion's share of the cost of the war in the Ukraine. And I have to ask. Is that fair?

Total bilateral aid to Ukraine by donor & type 2024 | Statista

How much has each country given to Ukraine? The U.S. provided the highest bilateral aid to Ukraine as of June 2024, at over 67 billion euros.

www.statista.com

 

[Foxfyre]

Personally, I’d say a fair share is - 10% of all income. 5% for the Feds and 5% for the state. No deductions. No upper or lower limits on income. Everyone pays.

Now… what is Income? I would suggest that income is any financial payment or benefit that an employee does not contribute to and which has not previously been taxed.

Income: wages, company cars, housing allowances, etc…

Not Income: Retirement plans, 401Ks, medical insurance (so long as the employee pays at least 20% of the premium), etc…

Thank you for a thoughtful answer. I have to ask though, where do the Feds get their 5% that they pay?

 

[basquebromance]

So what is the level for the playing field? The most that under achievers earn/pay? The richest? The poorest? Somewhere in the middle?

How do you get around what was taught to me as truth that if the the achievers are not rewarded for their efforts and the underachievers are rewarded the same as the achievers, neither will achieve much and all become poorer?

"in 1946, the top marginal tax rate was 94 percent, meaning if you make more than 200 thousand dollars, you paid the tax. no one not named "Rockefeller" made more than 200K dollars" - from my other thread

something like that for today's time would be good!

200 thousand dollars in 1946 means 3 million dollars in 2022. only 5 million Americans make that amount, including 300 MLB baseball players

 

[Anathema]

Thank you for a thoughtful answer. I have to ask though, where do the Feds get their 5% that they pay?

Not sure what you’re asking. The taxpayers pay the 5% shares of their income TO the State and Federal Governments, not the other way around.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not sure what you’re asking. The taxpayers pay the 5% shares of their income TO the State and Federal Governments, not the other way around.

Oh okay. I thought you meant the taxpayer pays 5% and the feds pay 5%--I just read it wrong. So the state gets 5% and the federal gov't gets 5%. Personally I think that could be a fair share just on the face of it--God only asks for a 10% tithe--so it certainly is worth considering.

If the government did ONLY what it is constitutionally authorized to do, it could make do with 5% taxes on income. But it has put us all in a deep hole now with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and other guaranteed benefits and it would take a long time to extricate ourselves from that if it is even advisable to do so.

 

[Foxfyre]

They will never quantify it, if they did and they got it they'd never get anymore.

True. Mostly just campaign rhetoric, sufficient to crash the market ever so often, but never really quantified.

But what is the actual limits that we could approve if some politician or elected leader actually came through on one of those campaign promises? What is the fair share expected of taxpayers?

 

[Hossfly]

the private sector can't on it's own ensure a decent quality of life for all citizens, we need government to level the playing field

Someone once said, "Government is not the solution to the problem; GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM."

The solution to the problem, coinciding with TERM LIMITS, is a simple FLAT TAX. Put both propositions on the general election ballots and not the desires of the most corrupt thieves in America. I can't understand why We The People ever allowed the thieves to get away with it.

 

[Anathema]

f the government did ONLY what it is constitutionally authorized to do, it could make do with 5% taxes on income. But it has put us all in a deep hole now with Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and other guaranteed benefits and it would take a long time to extricate ourselves from that if it is even advisable to do so

I totally agree. That’s why I also believe that the budget process needs an overhaul. No longer do we try to make income meet spending… instead we determine the approximate tax revenue and limit the budget to 90% of that number. Hard Stop. Any excess monies at the end of the year go into an “emergency” fund that requires 2/3 of both houses of Congress, 6/9 Supreme Court Justices and 2/3 of the State Governors to approve touching.

 

[basquebromance]

Someone once said, "Government is not the solution to the problem; GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM."

The solution to the problem, coinciding with TERM LIMITS, is a simple FLAT TAX. Put both propositions on the general election ballots and not the desires of the most corrupt thieves in America. I can't understand why We The People ever allowed the thieves to get away with it.

Ronald Reagan is not the solution, Ronald Reagan is the problem

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

What is the 'fair share' that taxpayers should pay?

We hear a lot from the left that rich Americans should pay their 'fair share.'

President Trump said the USA paid the huge lion's share of NATO, the UN, etc. and other countries should pay their 'fair share.'

Let's be honest that yes, the government can collect taxes, print money, sell bonds to cover some of its debt, but in the end it is we Americans who live with the consequences of tax policy and what the government spends money on.

So how do we define a 'fair share' that we should pay and/or others should pay?

According to the Communists in Congress, "fair share", is whatever they say it is. It has nothing to do with what's fair.

 

[Foxfyre]

I totally agree. That’s why I also believe that the budget process needs an overhaul. No longer do we try to make income meet spending… instead we determine the approximate tax revenue and limit the budget to 90% of that number. Hard Stop. Any excess monies at the end of the year go into an “emergency” fund that requires 2/3 of both houses of Congress, 6/9 Supreme Court Justices and 2/3 of the State Governors to approve touching.

The problem is incremental budgeting and 'political' math and definitions.

In practice, how much did we spend last year? Add 10% The total is what is budgeted this year.

If a department asks for say a 10% increase in widgets and Congress passes a 5% increase, the Republicans call that a 5% reduction in the increase of spending on widgets. The Democrats call it cutting the widget budget by 5%.

The taxpayer calls it a 5% increase in spending on widgets.

If the Constitution was followed, the government wouldn't be buying or paying for widgets at all.

There should be no automatic increases in government spending for anything. Each year should begin with zero base budgeting--start with a clean sheet of paper. Show what funding is needed for each item on the budget and justify the need for that item. Maybe then we wouldn't spend hundreds of thousands studying whether pigeons follow the same economic principles as humans.

 

[B. Kidd]

the private sector can't on it's own ensure a decent quality of life for all citizens, we need government to level the playing field

Too much red tape, corruption, and fraud.

Especially concerning fraud, didn't Covid hand-outs teach you anything??