Zone1 What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist?

[JoeB131]

Right, no dependable electricity, food shortages, fuel shortages, rampant corruption. South Africa has the lowest life expectancy of any country in Africa. South Africa has the third highest number of people infected with HIV in Africa. Right, the brothers are doing just fine.

You think Apartheid would have kept AIDS from spreading?

 

[AZrailwhale]

You think Apartheid would have kept AIDS from spreading?

I don't know, but I do notice that you picked the only thing that might have happened under apartheid to quibble about.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't know, but I do notice that you picked the only thing that might have happened under apartheid to quibble about.

You are the one who brought it up. "Oh my Gosh, they had more AIDS, those irresponsible Negros! If only white people had still been in charge!"

 

[AZrailwhale]

You are the one who brought it up. "Oh my Gosh, they had more AIDS, those irresponsible Negros! If only white people had still been in charge!"

No I didn't say that. I was just posting FACTS, something you are always short of. Black control has been a disaster for all the ex-colonial countries of Africa and most of Asia as well.

 

[JoeB131]

No I didn't say that. I was just posting FACTS, something you are always short of. Black control has been a disaster for all the ex-colonial countries of Africa and most of Asia as well.

No, it hasn't, and few of those countries say, "Hey, let's bring the white people back in!"

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Why shouldn't Jewish people enjoy the same sense of self determination as any other group, especially as their cultural identity goes back over 3000 years?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

You’d have a wet dream.

Quoting vermin like Chomsky doesn’t serve to make you come across as educated or worldly. It just underscores who and what you are.

If your sole point had been that there is (or can be) a valid distinction between being anti-Zionism and being anti-Semitic, you could be a lot more brief. But the truth still exists. Lots of people try to hide behind that distinction. They do this to pretend that their own anti-Zionism isn’t grounded in their anti-Semitism.

If you read Bin Ladens letters to the American People and then read Chomsky on the same subject, all Chomsky does is repackage all the same the rhetoric, but in much more fluorid ways.

So unoriginal.

 

[Libby von H]

What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist? Just the state itself, not the people of the state.

The Zionist movement is political, but I keep hearing people speak of it as if it were a religious movement, as if they agree the state is some version of a theocracy.



I've known Israeli's that fight the view of Israel as a religious state. I've known Jews who are not pro Zionism. I've personally marched with and in support of Jewish refusniks and others. I've argued with proteges of Noam Chomsky who were so anti Israel it was impossible to take their claims seriously. I am no fan of Noam, but when a man is right Dante give shim the credit due.

Noam Chomsky: On the weaponisation of false anti-Semitism charges against radical progressive movements - Noam Chomsky

Chomsky: It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared.

diem25.org

Fifty years ago, the distinguished Israel statesman Abba Eban wrote that “One of the chief tasks of any dialogue with the Gentile world is to prove that the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is not a distinction at all. Anti-Zionism is merely the new anti-Semitism.”

As the examples he gives make crystal clear (e.g., the committed Zionist I.F. Stone), by “anti-Zionism” he means criticism of the policies of the government of Israel and some sympathy for Palestinians.

That principle has become a last-ditch defense of apologists for Israel crimes under the occupation. Any critic, any proponent of Palestinian rights, can be tarred as an anti-Semite. This weapon has recently been wielded to great effect against Jeremy Corbyn in a campaign of vulgar deceit and slander that is shocking even beyond the disgraceful norm.

It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared.

I. F. Stone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

THere is no state without the people of the state."Hey,there's no apples in this apple pie" "yeah, don't you like it"
"I wanted apple pie" "but that is the point, you shouldn't have apple pie but let's call it that so there's no argument "

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

There is no state without the people of the state

A state is a government. States have been created in places where people were already living free of that state.

 

[JoeB131]

Why shouldn't Jewish people enjoy the same sense of self determination as any other group, especially as their cultural identity goes back over 3000 years?

They certainly can. All they need is to find a place where they are the majority and not displace people who were already there.

There are a whole bunch of people who had a history that don't have their own nations.

If you read Bin Ladens letters to the American People and then read Chomsky on the same subject, all Chomsky does is repackage all the same the rhetoric, but in much more fluorid ways.

So unoriginal.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

I suspect most wingnuts on here agreed with Tim McVeigh about Waco.

 

[Zebra]

Israel exists because of centuries of being targetted which culminated in most of their European population, young,.old.and unborn; being exterminated in a case of genocide during WWII. The movement received.global support and the UN voted on the partition.

i agree

 

[Batcat]

What if the State of Israel Ceased to Exist? Just the state itself, not the people of the state.

The Zionist movement is political, but I keep hearing people speak of it as if it were a religious movement, as if they agree the state is some version of a theocracy.



I've known Israeli's that fight the view of Israel as a religious state. I've known Jews who are not pro Zionism. I've personally marched with and in support of Jewish refusniks and others. I've argued with proteges of Noam Chomsky who were so anti Israel it was impossible to take their claims seriously. I am no fan of Noam, but when a man is right Dante give shim the credit due.

Noam Chomsky: On the weaponisation of false anti-Semitism charges against radical progressive movements - Noam Chomsky

Chomsky: It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared.

diem25.org

Fifty years ago, the distinguished Israel statesman Abba Eban wrote that “One of the chief tasks of any dialogue with the Gentile world is to prove that the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is not a distinction at all. Anti-Zionism is merely the new anti-Semitism.”

As the examples he gives make crystal clear (e.g., the committed Zionist I.F. Stone), by “anti-Zionism” he means criticism of the policies of the government of Israel and some sympathy for Palestinians.

That principle has become a last-ditch defense of apologists for Israel crimes under the occupation. Any critic, any proponent of Palestinian rights, can be tarred as an anti-Semite. This weapon has recently been wielded to great effect against Jeremy Corbyn in a campaign of vulgar deceit and slander that is shocking even beyond the disgraceful norm.

It would not be surprising if DiEM25 is soon subjected to the same treatment as its success increases and its outreach grows. Be prepared.

I. F. Stone - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

When Iran finally develops its nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, it is quite possible that Israel will be a prime target. It would not take many nukes to basically make Israel history.

 

[surada]

Israel will eventually be invaded and suffer massive loss of life but those who commit that atrocity will be utterly destroyed. Not only their troops, but even the home nations thay came from.

Why do you believe that?

 

[Lisa558]

You’d have a wet dream.

Quoting vermin like Chomsky doesn’t serve to make you come across as educated or worldly. It just underscores who and what you are.

If your sole point had been that there is (or can be) a valid distinction between being anti-Zionism and being anti-Semitic, you could be a lot more brief. But the truth still exists. Lots of people try to hide behind that distinction. They do this to pretend that their own anti-Zionism isn’t grounded in their anti-Semitism.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[el midgetron]

 

[EvilCat Breath]

If we had a time machine and we could travel back to 1947, would we find a different location to create a new country for Jewish Refugees or do the same thing again? I would opt for a different location not located near Muslims.

If it wasn't Israel it would be Spain, Italy, all of Europe. Then the Americas.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Are we better than Jordan or Lebanon? What did the Palestinians do there. The Palestinian flag makes this Palestinian land. Intifada indeed.

 

[MarathonMike]

If it wasn't Israel it would be Spain, Italy, all of Europe. Then the Americas.

I don't understand your comment. There were many involved with the decision who knew the danger of declaring the state of Israel within Palestine and literally surrounded by hostile Muslim countries.