What has an illegal immigrant done to deprive you of something?

[BrokeLoser]

I think I maybe understand the thinking behind your OP--that too many people are making a ruckus about illegal immigrants without really having any evidence that they are harming us. We are being fed harmful "hate"

No, I think his (her) point is that if they''re not bothering you directly, you have no reason to complain. If they have no impact on your life directly, we should not be pursuing the agenda of kicking them out and keeping new ones from coming in.

The OP is trying to be thought provocative without considering that immigrants (legal or illegal) have an impact on all our lives either directly or indirectly.

The OP is a damn liar playing Libtard trickery in typical Libtard semantics. He's likely an illegal or of recent illegal descent himself. He's not really fooling anyone here with his antics, we're all just playing along for the entertainment value. Anyone with an iQ over 12 knows that all LEGITIMATE Americans are negatively affected by illegals on many levels both socially and economically....there's nothing trivial about it. Illegitimate folks wouldn't know any better as there's a good chance they're just as third-world as the illegals. Simple stuff here.

Oh, no doubt, every legal citizen is affected by the presence of illegal immigrants--but not negatively. Overall, it is a positive impact. You pay lower prices for everything from groceries to home. Your social security check is bigger than it would otherwise be. And those people buy stuff--furniture, beer, food--and that produces jobs.

Nope, my son is going to be 22 years old and making some major bank. I have no doubt it would never be happening if he would not have spent that summer in the tomato fields right there beside those "illegal immigrants". So for me, personally, those illegal immigrants have given me far more than they have ever taken away.

"Winston, please enlighten me on exactly just how one becomes so disconnected from reality?
Daddy issues?
Abused as a child?
Also, what part of Mexico are you from?"

 

[usmbguest5318]

My great grandfather was a farmer and logger. He owned thousands of acres at the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. He passed his land on to his many children, my grandfather being one of them. Grandpaw, like his brothers, ran a dairy farm. Grandmother met him as he was ripping up a field in his new Cadillac at 16. And Mom is about as spoiled an individual that has ever walked the face of the earth.

The point is that after three generations, well damn near nothing is left. All those kids just sat around waiting for someone to die and then they sold their inheritance and pissed away the money. A few have nasty ass chicken farms--watch Fusion networks Cockfight if you want to see how that works out. But of those thousands of acres, only a few hundred is now being worked. That is the few hundred that my family just financed and sold to, wait for it---Mexicans.

TY for sharing a bit of yourself and your personal history with us.

 

[Winston]

By sucking on the healthcare system they suck money out of all of our pockets by distributing the cost to people that actually pay for service.

I'm looking at an ER bill of 2K+ out of pocket right now for an ER visit that consisted of a couple of nebulizer treatments for my young son. Realistic cost, including personnel time, which totaled about 30 minutes, a few hundred bucks. Usual out of pocket on that same scenario, which has happened before, is 25 bucks. It was a holiday, other service centers were closed, so we had no choice but the ER in this case and got utterly reamed.

The same is true of other services. Schools, cops, firemen, emt and so forth. That shit isn't free. They jack demand, requiring expansion of infrastructure and personnel, don't pay and the cost gets shifted to other people.

Sorry, but your emergency room bill is not high due to illegal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants rarely show up in the emergency room, pretty easy way to get discovered by the INS. Second, when they do show up, they often pay. Third, illegal immigrants contribute more money to the Medicare Trust fund than the care they receive. Hell, the illegal immigrants are SUBSIDIZING YOU, it is not the other way around.

The study found that in 2011 alone, undocumented immigrants paid in $3.5 billion more than they needed in care. “Unauthorized immigrants generated an average surplus of $316 per capita to the Trust Fund, while other Americans generated a deficit of $106 per capita,” the study’s press release indicated.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t A Burden On The Health Care System

By sucking on the healthcare system they suck money out of all of our pockets by distributing the cost to people that actually pay for service.

I'm looking at an ER bill of 2K+ out of pocket right now for an ER visit that consisted of a couple of nebulizer treatments for my young son. Realistic cost, including personnel time, which totaled about 30 minutes, a few hundred bucks. Usual out of pocket on that same scenario, which has happened before, is 25 bucks. It was a holiday, other service centers were closed, so we had no choice but the ER in this case and got utterly reamed.

The same is true of other services. Schools, cops, firemen, emt and so forth. That shit isn't free. They jack demand, requiring expansion of infrastructure and personnel, don't pay and the cost gets shifted to other people.

Sorry, but your emergency room bill is not high due to illegal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants rarely show up in the emergency room, pretty easy way to get discovered by the INS. Second, when they do show up, they often pay. Third, illegal immigrants contribute more money to the Medicare Trust fund than the care they receive. Hell, the illegal immigrants are SUBSIDIZING YOU, it is not the other way around.

The study found that in 2011 alone, undocumented immigrants paid in $3.5 billion more than they needed in care. “Unauthorized immigrants generated an average surplus of $316 per capita to the Trust Fund, while other Americans generated a deficit of $106 per capita,” the study’s press release indicated.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t A Burden On The Health Care System

I see some articles that support your position and some that refute it, such as this one

“What is unseen is their [illegal aliens’] free medical care that has degraded and closed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities, and caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing their doors,” Madeleine Peiner Cosman, Ph.D., Esq., “Illegal Aliens and American Medicine,” Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Spring 2005.

Or this one

http://cis.org/medicaid-cost

• 
  
• We have previously estimated that taxpayer-provided health care for uninsured illegal immigrants costs $4.3 billion annually. About half of that goes to those with incomes below 133 percent of poverty.
  
  
• While the annual costs run into the billions, because of their relatively young age and generally good health, the average cost of Medicaid for illegal immigrants is about half of the average general cost of Medicaid per enrollee.
  
  
• During the budget period 2014-2019, in which Medicaid expansion takes effect, covering 3.1 million amnestied immigrants would conservatively cost taxpayers $48.6 billion.

So, I obviously disagree with your assessment, and certainly with the statement that these people are subsidizing me, or anyone else. They're a net negative acording to that information and someone is paying for that.

Now, if you have some info that illegals, as a whole, are a net positive for the taxpayer in terms of medical care you might have a point. Sans that, you dont.

And I would note that I did not indicate at any point that they are solely responsible, only that they contribute to a rise in cost to these and other services.

Then you didn't read my post and quote. Illegal immigrants pay Social Security taxes, usually under a fake number. Part of those taxes go to the Medicare trust fund. But those illegal immigrants cannot qualify for Medicare. The amount of money all the illegal immigrants put in to the Medicare trust fund EXCEEDS the total amount of government spending on their health care. So yes, they are subsidizing you.

 

[OKTexas]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

You're a liar. Education cost more, auto insurance cost more, law enforcement cost more, I could go on but ignorant asses such as yourself don't care.

 

[Redfish]

By sucking on the healthcare system they suck money out of all of our pockets by distributing the cost to people that actually pay for service.

I'm looking at an ER bill of 2K+ out of pocket right now for an ER visit that consisted of a couple of nebulizer treatments for my young son. Realistic cost, including personnel time, which totaled about 30 minutes, a few hundred bucks. Usual out of pocket on that same scenario, which has happened before, is 25 bucks. It was a holiday, other service centers were closed, so we had no choice but the ER in this case and got utterly reamed.

The same is true of other services. Schools, cops, firemen, emt and so forth. That shit isn't free. They jack demand, requiring expansion of infrastructure and personnel, don't pay and the cost gets shifted to other people.

Sorry, but your emergency room bill is not high due to illegal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants rarely show up in the emergency room, pretty easy way to get discovered by the INS. Second, when they do show up, they often pay. Third, illegal immigrants contribute more money to the Medicare Trust fund than the care they receive. Hell, the illegal immigrants are SUBSIDIZING YOU, it is not the other way around.

The study found that in 2011 alone, undocumented immigrants paid in $3.5 billion more than they needed in care. “Unauthorized immigrants generated an average surplus of $316 per capita to the Trust Fund, while other Americans generated a deficit of $106 per capita,” the study’s press release indicated.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t A Burden On The Health Care System

By sucking on the healthcare system they suck money out of all of our pockets by distributing the cost to people that actually pay for service.

I'm looking at an ER bill of 2K+ out of pocket right now for an ER visit that consisted of a couple of nebulizer treatments for my young son. Realistic cost, including personnel time, which totaled about 30 minutes, a few hundred bucks. Usual out of pocket on that same scenario, which has happened before, is 25 bucks. It was a holiday, other service centers were closed, so we had no choice but the ER in this case and got utterly reamed.

The same is true of other services. Schools, cops, firemen, emt and so forth. That shit isn't free. They jack demand, requiring expansion of infrastructure and personnel, don't pay and the cost gets shifted to other people.

Sorry, but your emergency room bill is not high due to illegal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants rarely show up in the emergency room, pretty easy way to get discovered by the INS. Second, when they do show up, they often pay. Third, illegal immigrants contribute more money to the Medicare Trust fund than the care they receive. Hell, the illegal immigrants are SUBSIDIZING YOU, it is not the other way around.

The study found that in 2011 alone, undocumented immigrants paid in $3.5 billion more than they needed in care. “Unauthorized immigrants generated an average surplus of $316 per capita to the Trust Fund, while other Americans generated a deficit of $106 per capita,” the study’s press release indicated.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t A Burden On The Health Care System

I see some articles that support your position and some that refute it, such as this one

“What is unseen is their [illegal aliens’] free medical care that has degraded and closed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities, and caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing their doors,” Madeleine Peiner Cosman, Ph.D., Esq., “Illegal Aliens and American Medicine,” Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Spring 2005.

Or this one

http://cis.org/medicaid-cost

• 
  
• We have previously estimated that taxpayer-provided health care for uninsured illegal immigrants costs $4.3 billion annually. About half of that goes to those with incomes below 133 percent of poverty.
  
  
• While the annual costs run into the billions, because of their relatively young age and generally good health, the average cost of Medicaid for illegal immigrants is about half of the average general cost of Medicaid per enrollee.
  
  
• During the budget period 2014-2019, in which Medicaid expansion takes effect, covering 3.1 million amnestied immigrants would conservatively cost taxpayers $48.6 billion.

So, I obviously disagree with your assessment, and certainly with the statement that these people are subsidizing me, or anyone else. They're a net negative acording to that information and someone is paying for that.

Now, if you have some info that illegals, as a whole, are a net positive for the taxpayer in terms of medical care you might have a point. Sans that, you dont.

And I would note that I did not indicate at any point that they are solely responsible, only that they contribute to a rise in cost to these and other services.

Then you didn't read my post and quote. Illegal immigrants pay Social Security taxes, usually under a fake number. Part of those taxes go to the Medicare trust fund. But those illegal immigrants cannot qualify for Medicare. The amount of money all the illegal immigrants put in to the Medicare trust fund EXCEEDS the total amount of government spending on their health care. So yes, they are subsidizing you.

they only pay taxes and FICA if they are on someone's payroll. Most are paid in cash and no taxes of any kind are withheld. Yet they put kids in our schools, use our medical system, and collect welfare.

 

[Fueri]

By sucking on the healthcare system they suck money out of all of our pockets by distributing the cost to people that actually pay for service.

I'm looking at an ER bill of 2K+ out of pocket right now for an ER visit that consisted of a couple of nebulizer treatments for my young son. Realistic cost, including personnel time, which totaled about 30 minutes, a few hundred bucks. Usual out of pocket on that same scenario, which has happened before, is 25 bucks. It was a holiday, other service centers were closed, so we had no choice but the ER in this case and got utterly reamed.

The same is true of other services. Schools, cops, firemen, emt and so forth. That shit isn't free. They jack demand, requiring expansion of infrastructure and personnel, don't pay and the cost gets shifted to other people.

Sorry, but your emergency room bill is not high due to illegal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants rarely show up in the emergency room, pretty easy way to get discovered by the INS. Second, when they do show up, they often pay. Third, illegal immigrants contribute more money to the Medicare Trust fund than the care they receive. Hell, the illegal immigrants are SUBSIDIZING YOU, it is not the other way around.

The study found that in 2011 alone, undocumented immigrants paid in $3.5 billion more than they needed in care. “Unauthorized immigrants generated an average surplus of $316 per capita to the Trust Fund, while other Americans generated a deficit of $106 per capita,” the study’s press release indicated.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t A Burden On The Health Care System

By sucking on the healthcare system they suck money out of all of our pockets by distributing the cost to people that actually pay for service.

I'm looking at an ER bill of 2K+ out of pocket right now for an ER visit that consisted of a couple of nebulizer treatments for my young son. Realistic cost, including personnel time, which totaled about 30 minutes, a few hundred bucks. Usual out of pocket on that same scenario, which has happened before, is 25 bucks. It was a holiday, other service centers were closed, so we had no choice but the ER in this case and got utterly reamed.

The same is true of other services. Schools, cops, firemen, emt and so forth. That shit isn't free. They jack demand, requiring expansion of infrastructure and personnel, don't pay and the cost gets shifted to other people.

Sorry, but your emergency room bill is not high due to illegal immigrants. First, illegal immigrants rarely show up in the emergency room, pretty easy way to get discovered by the INS. Second, when they do show up, they often pay. Third, illegal immigrants contribute more money to the Medicare Trust fund than the care they receive. Hell, the illegal immigrants are SUBSIDIZING YOU, it is not the other way around.

The study found that in 2011 alone, undocumented immigrants paid in $3.5 billion more than they needed in care. “Unauthorized immigrants generated an average surplus of $316 per capita to the Trust Fund, while other Americans generated a deficit of $106 per capita,” the study’s press release indicated.

No, Undocumented Immigrants Aren’t A Burden On The Health Care System

I see some articles that support your position and some that refute it, such as this one

“What is unseen is their [illegal aliens’] free medical care that has degraded and closed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities, and caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing their doors,” Madeleine Peiner Cosman, Ph.D., Esq., “Illegal Aliens and American Medicine,” Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Spring 2005.

Or this one

http://cis.org/medicaid-cost

• 
  
• We have previously estimated that taxpayer-provided health care for uninsured illegal immigrants costs $4.3 billion annually. About half of that goes to those with incomes below 133 percent of poverty.
  
  
• While the annual costs run into the billions, because of their relatively young age and generally good health, the average cost of Medicaid for illegal immigrants is about half of the average general cost of Medicaid per enrollee.
  
  
• During the budget period 2014-2019, in which Medicaid expansion takes effect, covering 3.1 million amnestied immigrants would conservatively cost taxpayers $48.6 billion.

So, I obviously disagree with your assessment, and certainly with the statement that these people are subsidizing me, or anyone else. They're a net negative acording to that information and someone is paying for that.

Now, if you have some info that illegals, as a whole, are a net positive for the taxpayer in terms of medical care you might have a point. Sans that, you dont.

And I would note that I did not indicate at any point that they are solely responsible, only that they contribute to a rise in cost to these and other services.

Then you didn't read my post and quote. Illegal immigrants pay Social Security taxes, usually under a fake number. Part of those taxes go to the Medicare trust fund. But those illegal immigrants cannot qualify for Medicare. The amount of money all the illegal immigrants put in to the Medicare trust fund EXCEEDS the total amount of government spending on their health care. So yes, they are subsidizing you.

Yes, actually, I did. And I clearly stated I'd found some articles that supported the thinkprogress article and others that very definitely did not, and offered examples of those articles.

 

[healthmyths]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Well if you don't pay any Federal, state, local property taxes (but if you rent you are by the way) then "illegals" don't cost you anything.
But here is what "illegal immigrants" cost the USA in total..
Households led by undocumented immigrants received about $85 billion a year in benefits in 2010, according to the report.
The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer | The Heritage Foundation

 

[Winston]

I think I maybe understand the thinking behind your OP--that too many people are making a ruckus about illegal immigrants without really having any evidence that they are harming us. We are being fed harmful "hate"

No, I think his (her) point is that if they''re not bothering you directly, you have no reason to complain. If they have no impact on your life directly, we should not be pursuing the agenda of kicking them out and keeping new ones from coming in.

The OP is trying to be thought provocative without considering that immigrants (legal or illegal) have an impact on all our lives either directly or indirectly.

The OP is a damn liar playing Libtard trickery in typical Libtard semantics. He's likely an illegal or of recent illegal descent himself. He's not really fooling anyone here with his antics, we're all just playing along for the entertainment value. Anyone with an iQ over 12 knows that all LEGITIMATE Americans are negatively affected by illegals on many levels both socially and economically....there's nothing trivial about it. Illegitimate folks wouldn't know any better as there's a good chance they're just as third-world as the illegals. Simple stuff here.

Oh, no doubt, every legal citizen is affected by the presence of illegal immigrants--but not negatively. Overall, it is a positive impact. You pay lower prices for everything from groceries to home. Your social security check is bigger than it would otherwise be. And those people buy stuff--furniture, beer, food--and that produces jobs.

Nope, my son is going to be 22 years old and making some major bank. I have no doubt it would never be happening if he would not have spent that summer in the tomato fields right there beside those "illegal immigrants". So for me, personally, those illegal immigrants have given me far more than they have ever taken away.

"Winston, please enlighten me on exactly just how one becomes so disconnected from reality?
Daddy issues?
Abused as a child?
Also, what part of Mexico are you from?"

I am going to put it to you straight. I am Melungeon. My family has been in this valley since long before there was a United States. We let all you other yahoos stay around because, most of the time, you have enough sense to leave us the hell alone. I can tell you that Sherman went over a mountain rather than cross this here valley. I can also tell you that it was one of my forefathers that shot Fergunson off his horse at Kings Mountain.

We have been a muddled up mess of a gene pool since before the American Revolution. At Kings Mountain, native American wives, with their babies in slings on their bellies, were reloading the muskets. Long before white men were in this valley there was a group of MUSLIMS, escaped slaves off of wrecked ships along the Carolina coast had worked their way inland. Spanish explorers left behind. Maybe even members of the Lost Colony.

Diversity is what made me and it is what made this nation. Illegal immigration is not even in my vocabulary. Freedom of movement is at the core of "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Without free and open borders this nation is destined to despotism. Because as I have said time and time again, a government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people, when the government gets to pick the people.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Of course, in the area of starting salaries, Ivy League graduates don't even scratch the top thirty.

Off Topic:
I don't want to discuss this here. If you'd like to create a separate thread for it, fine. I merely want to note that schools that have a materially higher proportion of STEM grads dominate the "top 10" in starting salaries for that reason and because the top paying companies tend to recruit at certain schools. That said, at least in my industry, the summa cum laude grad from an elite school (Ivy or similarly elite) will be offered a slightly higher (not materially in most cases) higher starting salary than will the other recruits offered jobs in the same recruiting cycle. Maybe it's not like that everywhere? I don't know as I am not an HR specialist or university administrator.

 

[Winston]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

Well if you don't pay any Federal, state, local property taxes (but if you rent you are by the way) then "illegals" don't cost you anything.
But here is what "illegal immigrants" cost the USA in total..
Households led by undocumented immigrants received about $85 billion a year in benefits in 2010, according to the report.
The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer | The Heritage Foundation

View attachment 113052

Means tested welfare and Education benefits are for the benefit of

AMERICAN CITIZEN CHILDREN

It cannot be considered spending on "illegal immigrants". The Heritage Foundation is misleading. Real shocker.

 

[Darkwind]

For me the answer is "not a damn thing." D.C. has a ton of immigrants from all over the world. So do the other places where I spend a fair amount of time. I've not lost a job to an illegal immigrant. None of them have come traipsing through the neighborhood. No lost benefits, no longer lines anywhere, and I don't see that my taxes have gone up so as I'd notice because of them.

So, to carry your logic out to its conclusion, if someone comes in and kills your family, I can say why should they be put in jail?

After all, the death of your family hasn't affected Me in any way at all.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I haven't worked in over 10 years. I would love to move into a shack with outdoor plumbing in the Imperial Valley in California and pick lettuce for below minimum wage for 14 hour days in 115 degree summer heat, but those damned illegals have taken away my opportunity to do so!

 

[whitehall]

What does the word "illegal" mean to you?

 

[usmbguest5318]

those services were conducted in German.

Excellent thing to point out. TY The immigration issues we discuss today are so very similar to the ones our 18th and 19th century forebears cavilled about. There's a wealth of lessons to be learned from studying that part of American history. Sadly, it's a part that I suspect may not be part of the "catechism" delivered in "typical" American history texts. Mere mention of Hessians and that they were German, if that, may be as much as is typically noted.

 

[usmbguest5318]

What does the word "illegal" mean to you?

Definition of ILLEGAL

 

[Vandalshandle]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but an "illegal" is actually someone who has been convicted of a crime in a court of law. Until then, he is "undocumented".

 

[OldLady]

Are you saying that legal immigrants are the same thing as illegal immigrants?

Or that Washington is filled with illegal immigrants?

I've not asserted anything about immigrants -- illegal or legal. I asked a non-rhetorical question and I provided my own direct answer to it.

I mentioned D.C. because I live in D.C.; I didn't note that point of fact in the OP. I should have so that the contextual significance of my statement about "tons of immigrants" living in D.C. was clear. That is my mistake.

A few years back, I was in a DC suburb and went to a Burger King for lunch. Not a single employee spoke English. They did not speak the first word of English! So, I used what little Spanish I know to place my order.

I felt like I was back overseas instead of a block from my son's apartment.

TYVM for your reply. Yours is the first post in the thread (the first I've read) that directly answers exactly the question I asked. I appreciate your having the decency to simply and directly answer the question.

Start on page 1 (or hit your "read ignored content"). Several posters have told you how illegal immigrants have directly affected their / their families' lives. I think it's hard for most posters to know who is legal or illegal just meeting them on the street. Even the Admiral doesn't know if the workers at that Burger King were illegal. They all could have had green cards, for all he knows. Unlike naturalization, one is not required to speak English to get a green card.

Having said all that, in answer to your question, I have no idea if ILLEGAL immigrants are the ones who flood the laundromat on Sundays during blueberry harvest and wreathing seasons. I need to switch to Saturdays during those times. They are all speaking either Spanish or Haitian and are here doing migrant work, but whether they're illegal, I have no idea. The first and not bad Mexican restaurant around here got shut down several years ago when it was determined the owners were bringing in illegals and finding them work. They went to prison. I missed the flan, for sure.

I think I maybe understand the thinking behind your OP--that too many people are making a ruckus about illegal immigrants without really having any evidence that they are harming us. We are being fed harmful "hate" propaganda. But I see the point of the arguments here that point out the affect of flooded labor markets and the high costs of medical care for the insured, particularly when those people number in the many millions. If folks are here working, I agree they should be paying their share in taxes (including DJTrump). That is as much the responsibility of employers as it is the immigrants themselves, and I'm waiting....waiting....waiting....for that to be the focus of our administration's focus.

If they are here WORKING, and do not speak the first word of English, that is a pretty good indication that they came across the border in the past few months sewn inside a car seat. They definitely were not on a tourist visa.

Whatever you say, Admiral. Work visas are NOT tourist visas, and I've had to get interpreters to talk to some who show me their green cards, have worked and lived here legally for years. But we are as far from the Mexican border as you can get, so maybe things are different here.

 

[Darkwind]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but an "illegal" is actually someone who has been convicted of a crime in a court of law. Until then, he is "undocumented".

You have your terms confused.

When you do something against the law, you are doing something that is illegal. If you have no legal right to be in this country, you are here illegally.

Being convicted of being here illegally means you are a convict.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been willing to exploit the brown man?

 

[OldLady]

My great grandfather was a farmer and logger. He owned thousands of acres at the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. He passed his land on to his many children, my grandfather being one of them. Grandpaw, like his brothers, ran a dairy farm. Grandmother met him as he was ripping up a field in his new Cadillac at 16. And Mom is about as spoiled an individual that has ever walked the face of the earth.

The point is that after three generations, well damn near nothing is left. All those kids just sat around waiting for someone to die and then they sold their inheritance and pissed away the money. A few have nasty ass chicken farms--watch Fusion networks Cockfight if you want to see how that works out. But of those thousands of acres, only a few hundred is now being worked. That is the few hundred that my family just financed and sold to, wait for it---Mexicans.

Sorry to hear all that, Winston.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but an "illegal" is actually someone who has been convicted of a crime in a court of law. Until then, he is "undocumented".

You have your terms confused.

When you do something against the law, you are doing something that is illegal. If you have no legal right to be in this country, you are here illegally.

Being convicted of being here illegally means you are a convict.

Just out of curiosity, how long have you been willing to exploit the brown man?

Nope, DW. Wrong again. nobody is an "illegal" until convicted of a crime in a court of law. That is basicly jr. high school Civics info. Did you sleep through the 8th grade?