What Happens When You Tax Billionaires At 90%


Supply side economics was long ago proven to be little more than a con job. Keynes had it right all along. The economy is, and always has been, propelled by demand. Say's Law is dead. Supply side economics tells us that the reason buggy whip manufacturers went out of business is that the manufacturers didn't make enough buggy whips.
 
Great, at least now you're getting more specific. They're not living in tiny apartments,

Post your evidence.

they have regular cars

Ditto.

The long waits canard is an old worn-out one,

And it's true. They have less equipment, and it's older. Fewer drugs, and they're older.
And longer lines.

I had to wait two months to see a specialist on my United Healthcare plan (private insurance).

And you'd have been waiting 6 months, or longer, under socialized medicine.

At the age of 90, Isabel had a micro stroke. Eleven months later she is still waiting for a CAT scan.


There's no reason why we can't have single-payer, universal Medicare here in America.

Sure. All the benefits of the DMV and the charm of the IRS.

I've never waited six months for a specialist in Spain. Like I said, the most I've waited is two months and I know people who have had elected surgery in Spain and didn't wait nearly that long. But that's really irrelevant because America isn't moving to Spain, but is going to administer healthcare here in the US.

However, the data—both from other nations with universal coverage and from historic expansions of coverage within the United States—show that this is not the case. Patients in peer nations generally have similar or shorter wait times than patients in the United States for a variety of services, refuting the argument that universal coverage would necessarily result in longer wait times in the future.
Source:


I know people on Medicaid and on Medicare and they're doing great. There's no reason why we can't have that here for everyone.

The DMV and IRS are irrelevant to the topic we're discussing.
 

Supply side economics was long ago proven to be little more than a con job. Keynes had it right all along. The economy is, and always has been, propelled by demand. Say's Law is dead. Supply side economics tells us that the reason buggy whip manufacturers went out of business is that the manufacturers didn't make enough buggy whips.
They don't care about facts.
 
“Succession” is over, but spoiled, entitled billionaire man-children are still very much with us, running social media companies, owning newspapers and television networks, and funding politicians and judges who then keep their taxes low and regulations minimal.

America’s billionaires (and soon to be trillionaires) pay an average of around 3.1 percent as their functional income tax rate; as a result, America is the most unequal developed society in the world. The last time severe poverty and extravagant wealth coexisted in such extremes as today in this country was during the 1920s and 1930s.


Today we read about roving gangs doing smash-and-grab operations against retailers like Nordstroms and Home Depot; in Red states our schools are falling apart, defunded to pay for vouchers to all-white “Christian” academies; gun violence plagues our nation with particularly high homicide rates in rural Red states; and homelessness stalks city-dwellers at every turn.

The last time we saw the consequences of such inequality was during the Republican “Roaring ‘20s” 100 years ago, when Warren Harding dropped the top income tax rate from 91 percent to 25 percent, the morbidly rich openly bought our politicians, and gangs whose names are still known today roamed the country robbing and killing with impunity.

Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal put an end to all that, and we need to repeat his example today.

FDR raised the top income tax bracket from 25 to 90 percent. Wealthy people in America screamed and yelled, claiming it would crash the economy, but instead that top tax rate kicked off the first middle class to encompass more than half a nation’s population in world history.

As Roosevelt noted in 1936:


FDR created America’s first widespread middle class with a combination of high taxes on the rich and strong unions for working class people. He broke the politically corrupt power of organized wealth for two generations.


Abraham Lincoln was the first president to use the word unions to describe labor organizations; it was such a novelty that newspapers of the day put the word in quotation marks. By the 1920s the union movement had seized the nation, but employers and Republican politicians were still using police, the army, and private armed militias to kill union leaders and intimidate people who wanted to join them.

Franklin Roosevelt put an end to that with the Wagner Act in 1935, fully legalizing unions. By the time Reagan took office in 1981 about a third of Americans had a good union job, and as a result fully two-thirds of American workers had union-level wages and benefits (because unions created the local wage and benefit floor for employers).

The people who were obscenely rich throughout the era from the 1930s to the 1980s had mostly inherited their money from their 19th century Gilded Age ancestors (the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, DuPonts, Carnegies, etc.), because the combination of the 90 percent income tax bracket and union demands for meaningful wages kept inequality at reasonable levels.

Rich people were still rich, but that top income tax bracket combined with the power of unions kept the average CEO from taking much more than 30 times what their lowest-paid worker made every year. (Today, some CEOs make more than a thousand times what their workers make.)

FDR’s and LBJ’s social safety nets caught Americans before they could fall into the dire poverty that characterized earlier eras when Republicans ran the show. Social Security and unemployment benefits — both rolled out by FDR in the 1930s — lifted the elderly and the jobless out of poverty, and LBJ’s Medicare and Medicaid (1960s) kept Americans healthy.

The result of this was that crime went down and lifespans increased. When the grinding inequality of the Roaring ‘20s and the Republican Great Depression went away in the 1940s and 1950s, the crime sprees and hate-promoting demagogues went with it. Working people with decent wages and benefits, after all, have neither the time nor the need to engage in criminal activity.

Corporate executives lived and worked in normal — albeit upscale — neighborhoods (watch an episode of Bewitched or The Dick Van Dyke Show from the 1960s to see the homes Madison Avenue executives and media bigwigs lived in), and workers made enough to sustain a decent lifestyle.

Nonetheless, the morbidly rich campaigned relentlessly to take us back to the oligarchic 1920s, demanding tax cuts and union-busting. They funded media campaigns, think tanks, publications, judges and politicians.

In 1981 they got their guy into office; Reagan dropped the top tax rate all the way down to 27 percent and destroyed the nation’s air traffic controllers union as his opening salvo in the modern-day Republican War Against Workers.

Reaganism kicked off a 42-year-long explosion of wealth at the very top of our economic hierarchy, making today’s billionaires richer than the pharaohs. They compete with each other to see who can own the largest private jets and mega-yachts, multiple mansions all over the world, private islands, and even their own spaceships.

Disney’s old Scrooge McDuck comics (that I’m now reading to my grandkids) and their unfathomable money bins have come to life.

Simultaneously, the middle class began its collapse from two-thirds of us in 1980 all the way down to today’s 45 percent (and today it takes two incomes to sustain the same middle class lifestyle that could be done with just one when Jimmy Carter was president).

As the middle class collapsed, lifespans in America followed the same trajectory, unlike other countries in the world that rejected Reaganomics.

4448a073-1e47-4445-aae6-24a744aa9bc1_1874x2042.jpg
Source: Our World In Data
Reagan wasn’t alone in destroying the American Dream, however. He had big-time help from the nation’s highest court.

Five Republican appointees on the Supreme Court initiated the process with their First National Bank decision in 1978, which said that billionaire and corporate money wasn’t money but instead was a form of “free speech” and that corporations weren’t a legal fiction but instead were “persons” with full rights under the Bill of Rights, including the right to use their “free speech” to own politicians.

That decision, authored by the infamous Lewis Powell himself, made possible the purchase of the Republican Party by the morbidly rich in 1979, floating Reagan into office in 1980 on a tsunami of corporate and billionaire (in today’s dollars) cash, much of it from the oil and banking industries.

Reagan then rewarded the GOP’s affluent paymasters with lower taxes, more tax-code loopholes, and a campaign of massive industrial and banking deregulation, giving particular preference via his EPA Administrator — the disgraced Anne Gorsuch (Neil’s mom) — to fossil fuel and other polluting industries.

So, here we are in a situation much like the one that FDR faced when he first came into office in 1933. Homelessness stalks the nation; three morbidly rich individuals own more wealth than the bottom half of Americans; gun crime is at Bonnie and Clyde levels; and workers are terrified of their employers, who force them to sit through anti-union indoctrination sessions or lose their jobs.

To solve this crisis, we must gather and gain the political strength and will to once again raise the top income tax rate up to 90 percent; to overturn the Taft-Hartley Act and restore the right to unionize without interference; and to strip the poison of big money out of our political system.

The morbidly rich will squeal at even the mention of these tried-and-tested solutions, just like they did in the 1930s. They’ll warn that the country will collapse, or that communism will take us over and we’ll become Venezuela or Cuba. They’ll say that the “job creators” will go on strike like in an Ayn Rand novel and take the economy with them to Gault’s Gulch.

And, like FDR, we need to call them on their bullsh*t.

Billionaires are the problem. Not the solution. Prosperity is created when the morbidly rich, and corporations are taxed at much higher levels. Not lower. Just like FDR proved beyond any doubt.

You have to be a total tool, to buy into the oligarch bullshit talking point, that low taxes and deregulation is what creates prosperity. Or you're a toady working for a billionaire selling that crap.
TLDR. Especially coming from you.
 
You won't post their GDP per capita?
First, the GDP per capita in the United States is lower than Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Qatar, and Singapore.

Second, used the GDP per capita figure is useless unless compared to the GINI index. When the top one percent of income earners make more than 40 times the income of the bottom 90% it is going to distort the GDP per capita figure to the point of insignificance.


 
True ... but "tax-payer subsidized charging station" along the Columbia River is a vanishing small amount of money ... cheap AND carbon-neutral hydro-power ... pennies per month per rate-payer ...

Mileage and weight ... it's the big rigs that tear up the roads ...
1st - I don't care how much the ding on "tax-payers"; the full costs should be born by the Enviro-greenie thugs/users whom have chosen EVs. The rest of us should not be underwriting their frivolity and enviro negative transportation choices. And "carbon-neutral" is a non essential factor as far as I'm concerned since it is a political/economic concept and not a real science or technology one.

2nd - As for "big rigs that tear up the roads"; those roads were built for the benefit of the Big Rigs!*

Several years ago when my oldest son had finished his college on G.I. Bill Degree, best offer he had was in Lincoln, Nebraska with INS. So come the New Years Holiday and then, to meet the Jan.5th deadline to report for the job, we loaded a Penske Box truck with household stuff, family into the Escalade, and did the dash half way across the country from South Tacoma, WA. to Lincoln, NE. Dashing along I-84 and I-80* Eastward, about 90-95+ percent of the traffic on those Interstates were "Big Rigs" ~ tractor trailers hauling the essential goods on the arterial lifelines of the Nation. Along side we saw many freight trains also traveling the twin steel rails of railroad linkage of cross nation. Collectively witness to the lifeblood of commerce and consumer goods that sustain our nation.

Unfortunately, among many failures of our education system is to neglect explaining the essence of transportation and distribution systems to provide for basic consumer goods and services across the nation.

How else do you think stuff gets in the back door of your local retail or big-box for you to enjoy your life and existence ???

* Those Interstate High-ways/'Freeways' were built to facilitate interstate commerce, transportation, and trade**, with the consumer 'vacationer' traffic a secondary consideration.

You have a better, more efficient, and less expensive way of getting Goods to Market, please present and explain!

** Also provide a means for military deployment across nation in place of use of railroads.
 
First, the GDP per capita in the United States is lower than Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Qatar, and Singapore.

Second, used the GDP per capita figure is useless unless compared to the GINI index. When the top one percent of income earners make more than 40 times the income of the bottom 90% it is going to distort the GDP per capita figure to the point of insignificance.


First, the GDP per capita in the United States is lower than Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Qatar, and Singapore.

Second, used the GDP per capita figure is useless unless compared to the GINI index. When the top one percent of income earners make more than 40 times the income of the bottom 90% it is going to distort the GDP per capita figure to the point of insignificance.



Nostra and his buddies will most likely ignore the facts stated here too.
 

Supply side economics was long ago proven to be little more than a con job. Keynes had it right all along. The economy is, and always has been, propelled by demand. Say's Law is dead. Supply side economics tells us that the reason buggy whip manufacturers went out of business is that the manufacturers didn't make enough buggy whips.
Hmmmm…..

One opinion piece from one lefty “journalist “.

Not sure that helps your case, Simp.

:dance: :dance: :dance:
 
First, the GDP per capita in the United States is lower than Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Qatar, and Singapore.

Second, used the GDP per capita figure is useless unless compared to the GINI index. When the top one percent of income earners make more than 40 times the income of the bottom 90% it is going to distort the GDP per capita figure to the point of insignificance.



How about an overworked population? Does that also affect the GDP? I figure it would, but correct me If I'm wrong, since you seem to know more about this than me.
 
“Succession” is over, but spoiled, entitled billionaire man-children are still very much with us, running social media companies, owning newspapers and television networks, and funding politicians and judges who then keep their taxes low and regulations minimal.

America’s billionaires (and soon to be trillionaires) pay an average of around 3.1 percent as their functional income tax rate; as a result, America is the most unequal developed society in the world. The last time severe poverty and extravagant wealth coexisted in such extremes as today in this country was during the 1920s and 1930s.


Today we read about roving gangs doing smash-and-grab operations against retailers like Nordstroms and Home Depot; in Red states our schools are falling apart, defunded to pay for vouchers to all-white “Christian” academies; gun violence plagues our nation with particularly high homicide rates in rural Red states; and homelessness stalks city-dwellers at every turn.

The last time we saw the consequences of such inequality was during the Republican “Roaring ‘20s” 100 years ago, when Warren Harding dropped the top income tax rate from 91 percent to 25 percent, the morbidly rich openly bought our politicians, and gangs whose names are still known today roamed the country robbing and killing with impunity.

Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal put an end to all that, and we need to repeat his example today.

FDR raised the top income tax bracket from 25 to 90 percent. Wealthy people in America screamed and yelled, claiming it would crash the economy, but instead that top tax rate kicked off the first middle class to encompass more than half a nation’s population in world history.

As Roosevelt noted in 1936:


FDR created America’s first widespread middle class with a combination of high taxes on the rich and strong unions for working class people. He broke the politically corrupt power of organized wealth for two generations.


Abraham Lincoln was the first president to use the word unions to describe labor organizations; it was such a novelty that newspapers of the day put the word in quotation marks. By the 1920s the union movement had seized the nation, but employers and Republican politicians were still using police, the army, and private armed militias to kill union leaders and intimidate people who wanted to join them.

Franklin Roosevelt put an end to that with the Wagner Act in 1935, fully legalizing unions. By the time Reagan took office in 1981 about a third of Americans had a good union job, and as a result fully two-thirds of American workers had union-level wages and benefits (because unions created the local wage and benefit floor for employers).

The people who were obscenely rich throughout the era from the 1930s to the 1980s had mostly inherited their money from their 19th century Gilded Age ancestors (the Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, DuPonts, Carnegies, etc.), because the combination of the 90 percent income tax bracket and union demands for meaningful wages kept inequality at reasonable levels.

Rich people were still rich, but that top income tax bracket combined with the power of unions kept the average CEO from taking much more than 30 times what their lowest-paid worker made every year. (Today, some CEOs make more than a thousand times what their workers make.)

FDR’s and LBJ’s social safety nets caught Americans before they could fall into the dire poverty that characterized earlier eras when Republicans ran the show. Social Security and unemployment benefits — both rolled out by FDR in the 1930s — lifted the elderly and the jobless out of poverty, and LBJ’s Medicare and Medicaid (1960s) kept Americans healthy.

The result of this was that crime went down and lifespans increased. When the grinding inequality of the Roaring ‘20s and the Republican Great Depression went away in the 1940s and 1950s, the crime sprees and hate-promoting demagogues went with it. Working people with decent wages and benefits, after all, have neither the time nor the need to engage in criminal activity.

Corporate executives lived and worked in normal — albeit upscale — neighborhoods (watch an episode of Bewitched or The Dick Van Dyke Show from the 1960s to see the homes Madison Avenue executives and media bigwigs lived in), and workers made enough to sustain a decent lifestyle.

Nonetheless, the morbidly rich campaigned relentlessly to take us back to the oligarchic 1920s, demanding tax cuts and union-busting. They funded media campaigns, think tanks, publications, judges and politicians.

In 1981 they got their guy into office; Reagan dropped the top tax rate all the way down to 27 percent and destroyed the nation’s air traffic controllers union as his opening salvo in the modern-day Republican War Against Workers.

Reaganism kicked off a 42-year-long explosion of wealth at the very top of our economic hierarchy, making today’s billionaires richer than the pharaohs. They compete with each other to see who can own the largest private jets and mega-yachts, multiple mansions all over the world, private islands, and even their own spaceships.

Disney’s old Scrooge McDuck comics (that I’m now reading to my grandkids) and their unfathomable money bins have come to life.

Simultaneously, the middle class began its collapse from two-thirds of us in 1980 all the way down to today’s 45 percent (and today it takes two incomes to sustain the same middle class lifestyle that could be done with just one when Jimmy Carter was president).

As the middle class collapsed, lifespans in America followed the same trajectory, unlike other countries in the world that rejected Reaganomics.

4448a073-1e47-4445-aae6-24a744aa9bc1_1874x2042.jpg
Source: Our World In Data
Reagan wasn’t alone in destroying the American Dream, however. He had big-time help from the nation’s highest court.

Five Republican appointees on the Supreme Court initiated the process with their First National Bank decision in 1978, which said that billionaire and corporate money wasn’t money but instead was a form of “free speech” and that corporations weren’t a legal fiction but instead were “persons” with full rights under the Bill of Rights, including the right to use their “free speech” to own politicians.

That decision, authored by the infamous Lewis Powell himself, made possible the purchase of the Republican Party by the morbidly rich in 1979, floating Reagan into office in 1980 on a tsunami of corporate and billionaire (in today’s dollars) cash, much of it from the oil and banking industries.

Reagan then rewarded the GOP’s affluent paymasters with lower taxes, more tax-code loopholes, and a campaign of massive industrial and banking deregulation, giving particular preference via his EPA Administrator — the disgraced Anne Gorsuch (Neil’s mom) — to fossil fuel and other polluting industries.

So, here we are in a situation much like the one that FDR faced when he first came into office in 1933. Homelessness stalks the nation; three morbidly rich individuals own more wealth than the bottom half of Americans; gun crime is at Bonnie and Clyde levels; and workers are terrified of their employers, who force them to sit through anti-union indoctrination sessions or lose their jobs.

To solve this crisis, we must gather and gain the political strength and will to once again raise the top income tax rate up to 90 percent; to overturn the Taft-Hartley Act and restore the right to unionize without interference; and to strip the poison of big money out of our political system.

The morbidly rich will squeal at even the mention of these tried-and-tested solutions, just like they did in the 1930s. They’ll warn that the country will collapse, or that communism will take us over and we’ll become Venezuela or Cuba. They’ll say that the “job creators” will go on strike like in an Ayn Rand novel and take the economy with them to Gault’s Gulch.

And, like FDR, we need to call them on their bullsh*t.

Billionaires are the problem. Not the solution. Prosperity is created when the morbidly rich, and corporations are taxed at much higher levels. Not lower. Just like FDR proved beyond any doubt.

You have to be a total tool, to buy into the oligarch bullshit talking point, that low taxes and deregulation is what creates prosperity. Or you're a toady working for a billionaire selling that crap.

tl;dr

but if you tax billionaires at 90%, you'll never get the amount of revenue you think you will.
 
And opinions are opinions….which is all you have, Simp.

You're an awesome Evangelist for Socialism. The more people who are like you in America, the more socialist it will become. You ensure, if not guarantee socialism. So thank you. You can pretend to be witty and follow with a "You're welcome" if you wish.
 
I've never waited six months for a specialist in Spain. Like I said, the most I've waited is two months and I know people who have had elected surgery in Spain and didn't wait nearly that long. But that's really irrelevant because America isn't moving to Spain, but is going to administer healthcare here in the US.

However, the data—both from other nations with universal coverage and from historic expansions of coverage within the United States—show that this is not the case. Patients in peer nations generally have similar or shorter wait times than patients in the United States for a variety of services, refuting the argument that universal coverage would necessarily result in longer wait times in the future.
Source:


I know people on Medicaid and on Medicare and they're doing great. There's no reason why we can't have that here for everyone.

The DMV and IRS are irrelevant to the topic we're discussing.

By the end of last year, a record 793,521 patients were awaiting surgery in the country's healthcare system. This was 88,000 more than in December 2021, representing a 12% rise.

Now it is also taking longer to visit a doctor than ever.

The average waiting time to book an appointment to see a medical specialist and to undergo surgery have both increased, according to the latest data released by the Spanish Ministry of Health.

Officials show that Spaniards were waiting an average of 95 days, nearly three months, for an appointment with a specialist.



Spain sounds awesome!!!
 

Supply side economics was long ago proven to be little more than a con job. Keynes had it right all along. The economy is, and always has been, propelled by demand. Say's Law is dead. Supply side economics tells us that the reason buggy whip manufacturers went out of business is that the manufacturers didn't make enough buggy whips.

It works every single time.
 
First, the GDP per capita in the United States is lower than Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Qatar, and Singapore.

Second, used the GDP per capita figure is useless unless compared to the GINI index. When the top one percent of income earners make more than 40 times the income of the bottom 90% it is going to distort the GDP per capita figure to the point of insignificance.



First, the GDP per capita in the United States is lower than Luxembourg, Norway, Ireland, Switzerland, Qatar, and Singapore.

We should pump a lot more oil like Norway and Qatar?
Or cut corporate taxes like Ireland?
Tax shelters like Luxembourg and Switzerland?

When the top one percent of income earners make more than 40 times the income of the bottom 90%

LOL! Link?
 
Hmmmm…..

One opinion piece from one lefty “journalist “.

Not sure that helps your case, Simp.

:dance: :dance: :dance:
Look, Daniel Liberto is not a lefty journalist. And the facts he stated are precisely that, facts.

Tax Cuts Don’t Create More Jobs​



Supply-Side Policies Weakened Investment​



Supply-Side Economics Is Not Synonymous With Productivity Growth​


Tax Cuts Don’t Spur Stronger Economic Growth​



Tax Cuts Don’t Pay for Themselves​


You can complain about the sources if you like. The Stern School of Business is a top five in the country school for the study of finance. Actually, ranked number 3. But until you counter the hard data each of those articles analyze, you got nothing.
 
How about an overworked population? Does that also affect the GDP? I figure it would, but correct me If I'm wrong, since you seem to know more about this than me.
Not significantly. Look at this list,


Notice the same countries that are above the US in GDP per capita are also above the US in GDP per labor hour. And one could hardly argue that Luxembourg and Norway have overworked populations.
 

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